TOS movies are so flawed
- Thread starter Thomas Elliot
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It went off the rails with TMP. Kirk is a jerk, Spock doesn't want emotions, Enterprise is completely redone so we don't know the ship any more. TMP was very over the top with the changes for the sake of changes that it feels entirely divorced from TOS.
Another thing is the Bird-of-Prey in ST lll: TSFS . It was supposed to be a Romulan Bird-of-Prey, complete with cloaking technology but apparently Nimoy thought the Klingons would be better villains. I agree with that, because without it, it doesn't create any momentum for TUC. But now Klingons are using ships meant for Romulans and suddenly have cloaking technology which seems out-of-character for their honor culture, and makes them too similar to their sworn enemies.
Film making is difficult so you have to make tough decisions as they come at you. But I think non-cloaking Battlecruisers are a better fit for the Romulans and distinguish them from the ships and tech that the Romulans use.
Film making is difficult so you have to make tough decisions as they come at you. But I think non-cloaking Battlecruisers are a better fit for the Romulans and distinguish them from the ships and tech that the Romulans use.
I think you meant Klingons here, but that concept is in line with what happened in "The Enterprise Incident" where the Romulans are using Klingon battlecruiser designs. The Klingons also have no issue using subterfuge, given the surgically altered spy in "Trouble with Tribbles."
Klingons were not as honor bound in TOS as TNG.
No kidding? I have to check out that episode and the reasoning for it.
This is a good point. The TOS Klingons were some brutal commies, crushing peaceful planets, but yeah, they seemed like they could be devious. I just watched "Trouble with Tribbles" and not only was I surprised that they used a spy like that, he came across as so un-Klingon-like, even by TOS standards.
Yeah, in the context of the TOS films alone, it's not that bad. I would have preferred that they don't use cloaking and have the different ship designs, but yeah, they weren't honor bound really in the films. Kruge does say after killing Valkris that she'll be "remembered with honor" but that's it. I don't recall anything really honor-driven in those films. And considering that the Romulans don't play a big part in the the TOS films there's nothing that's going to be a glaring contradiction. I don't think they were even enemies with the Romulans at this point. I think that was a creation of TNG.
There's a Myriad Universes story that does great things with Arne Darvin and the question of how the universe might have played out if his plot had succeeded.
It could be argued that the person he becomes in that story is a much better man than the one he becomes in the Primeverse.
It could be argued that the person he becomes in that story is a much better man than the one he becomes in the Primeverse.
The thing about the STIII Bird of Prey is that it doesn’t look remotely like the Romulan BoP from TOS. It looks more like the Klingon D7/K’T’inga class battlecruisers, just with a green and red paint job and movable wings. Once the decision was made to have the adversaries be Klingons instead of Romulans, all they had to do was paint the BoP blue and call it a ‘Klingon fighter’ and no one would have been the wiser.
I thought the physical design was worked out after they decided it was going to be a Klingon ship instead of Romulan. But I've never been quite clear on the exact timeline of story and design development.
And all this "honor" baloney doesn't have any place among 23rd-century Klingons. That was a TNG-era retcon to make them palatable as allies of the Federation.
Kor
And all this "honor" baloney doesn't have any place among 23rd-century Klingons. That was a TNG-era retcon to make them palatable as allies of the Federation.
Kor
People were railing on that BoP issue back in the day as well and took it in stride with the things that worked, it is a comparatively minor issue. (Then again, "The Enterprise Incident" did reveal an alliance between Romulans and Klingons, so they did trade technologies, and all that's easier to get around than explaining how Khan could remember Chekov so distinctly.)
The ship looks far more like a Klingon "D-7" than the Romulan ships seen during TOS.
I would say the movies are more like a "broad strokes" adaptation of the series, rather than a direct literal continuation. For one thing, there's no way the visual aesthetic of the whole galaxy could change so drastically in ten to fifteen years. And this way we can handwave away inconsistencies and discrepancies such as Khan remembering Chekov.
Kor
Kor
As an after-the-fact, in-story explanation, I like that angle. It makes sense.
My criticism with this particular element is more suited towards TNG. As it’s been pointed out, Klingons weren’t honor obsessed til TNG. Them being sneaky and treacherous was in-character back then. All’s fair in war.
Yes. Because the people in Nicholas Meyer's Trek films are cultured, and aware of literature, music, and history from before they were born. The films are richer because of this.
It was a joke and should be taken as such.
First time on the internet, Vger?
Damn production and special effects changes...damn them!
TOS was a ship/UFP that was a humans only club..glad TMP changed things a bit but then it went back to a humans only club from TWOK to NEM
Alien makeup gets expensive, man.
I think I felt the worst for Nero's makeup because the eyebrows had to be hand pulled through which was several hours worth of labor and the prosthetic would be completely destroyed when it got removed from Bana's head.Alien makeup gets expensive, man.
I didn't know that. That sounds really labor intensive, to be sure.
Yeah, I couldn't find it online but I know its in one of the DVD extras.
I did find this one:
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