The Stargate Franchise - A First Timer's Watchthrough

[tomalak301]

Lost City

Wow that was something else. There was so much to unpack here I'm still digesting all of it. I think the best way I can sum up this episode was it was everything that is great about Stargate, plus it laid the groundwork for Atlantis. We get those character moments, like the scene at Jack's house in part 1 and the ending with Sam looking at a Jack in stasis almost about ready to cry. We got the awesome mystery that I find so endearing. Jack volunteers himself to take the Ancient knowledge again and we go on a journey to find out where and what the Lost City was. Then we get the big climax where Jack controls the outpost from the chair and takes out Anubis's entire fleet. That battle over Antartica was incredible, and when Hammond says "That's SG-1", bursting with pride, you just can't help but smile with glee.

I also wanted to talk about Dr. Weir. I know she's the leader of Atlantis but does anyone have any behind the scenes knowledge about why they re-cast the role? I thought Steen wasn't too bad here, and her dressing down of Kinsey was great. Also, I say I would re-evaluate Inauguration after I watched this episode and I look at that episode a lot more fondly. In fact, I'm a little surprised this wasn't officially a three part finale because yeah Inauguration set this episode up really well.

I think if I had a criticism, it was we didn't actually get to Atlantis. This season was set up as finding the lost city, and then we had a one final fake out where it's like, well you have to wait a few months before we actually go to the Lost City. Fortunately for me, I get to wait only a few hours, since the next two episodes have to formally set up the next series, but I was surprised we didn't actually get there in this finale. I will say I got goosebumps when it was revealed that Atlantis was the lost city. I knew it based on the title of the next series, but watching that journey from the premiere to the finale was a pleasure, mainly because I love mystery and this is the kind of thing Stargate SG-1 is excellent at.

I also saw this episode as maybe an end of an era. Hammond has been replaced at the SG-C, O'Neill is in Stasis at the Antarctic outpost, and things won't be the same. I wonder if they were to stop here and then start Atlantis if that would have worked.

As for the rest of the season, I think the whole is greater than the individual parts. Knowing where this season started from and where it ended, the whole season was great. Taken on an individual episode basis, I found it good but not "OMG" great. I still think Season 6 was better, but I would probably put Season 7 in the top 4. Maybe it would be something like, Season 6, Season 2, Season 7, and Season 5 in that order. Season 5 and 3 are pretty close though so they could be interchangeable.

As for my favorite episodes this season:

Heroes - I was still thinking about it this morning

Lost City - See Above

Fallen/Homecoming - That was an amazing premiere, taken with the season 6 finale I stayed up just to see how it all ended.

Orpheus - I have really loved the relationship between Teal'c and Bra'tac and that grew so much this season

Birthright - I just loved seeing Jolene Blalock again

Death Knell - This was probably the best Sam episode this season.

Looking forward to season 8 and I've made it to Stargate Atlantis. It took about a month to get there, but I'm here.

@Farscape One

Looking forward to your (And everyone else's) thoughts on the season.

 

[David cgc]

"Lost City" was conceptualized as the Stargate SG-1 theatrical movie after the series ended, which the producers had been expecting to happen since season five. Every year, they'd gone into the season finale with the expectation that it would be the series finale, and would set up this big movie event, which would then lead directly into the spin-off series. By season seven, they realized the spin-off was happening now, and there was no longer any way to hold back the Lost City plot, so they made it the season finale, still, as far as I know, not entirely sure if they'd be coming back for more SG-1 or not.

The producers later joked that by the time they got complacent and realized they weren't getting cancelled and began writing cliffhanger season finales again, that's when they actually got cancelled. Luckily, that coincided with a short-lived boom in direct-to-DVD features, which just as quickly went bust, and that market hole of "cult series revivals and reunion specials" would go unfilled for most of the rest of the decade until the rise of streaming platform exclusives. I swear, you could do a dissertation on the evolution of TV sci-fi in narrative and business terms just through the Stargate franchise.

Of course, the Lost City movie would've been a bit different than the two-part episode, aside from costing a lot more money. Atlantis actually would've been under the ice near the second Stargate, and the SGC would begin operating out of it in the sequel series, with the Replicators as the main villains (the humanoid models being another element that was pushed up because SG-1 just wouldn't end). The Stargate program, and the invasion, would've been made public. There would've been more action scenes of the Goa'uld fighting conventional Earth military, such as actually seeing the attack on the aircraft carrier group.

 

[The Wormhole]

Aw, and I just checked, and Amazon has the short version of "Threads." Oh, well, we'll tell you what you missed. My understanding is that the short version isn't as incoherent as the hour-long version of the season 2 BSG finale (which also got a special hour-and-a-half timeslot for its first run).

Although the long version of Threads includes some very good character moments, I find the narrative flows better in the short version.

 

[bigdaddy]

I also wanted to talk about Dr. Weir. I know she's the leader of Atlantis but does anyone have any behind the scenes knowledge about why they re-cast the role? .

I was going to tease 'You will have a question and the answer is, bad planning'. Never did. Everyone always asks that. Really bad planning.

The writers didn't plan in advance. Then got what's her name to do these episodes, she didn't want to do a full blown series. But the writers knew that's what they were planning, so really shitty planning by the writers.

The reason for the fake out is Lost City was supposed to find... the Lost City when it was supposed to be a movie. Instead they got a 7th season. Which is why I don't like season 7. I expected it to me more grand, a bigger lead up to Atlantis and the season is like 'Here's some random junk' with just a touch of Atlantis.

I wish the show ended with season 6. The Lost City be a real movie, then Atlantis on Earth. There is a reason why I feel this way I'll explain once you finish season 8.

 

[tomalak301]

"Lost City" was conceptualized as the Stargate SG-1 theatrical movie after the series ended, which the producers had been expecting to happen since season five. Every year, they'd gone into the season finale with the expectation that it would be the series finale, and would set up this big movie event, which would then lead directly into the spin-off series. By season seven, they realized the spin-off was happening now, and there was no longer any way to hold back the Lost City plot, so they made it the season finale, still, as far as I know, not entirely sure if they'd be coming back for more SG-1 or not.

The producers later joked that by the time they got complacent and realized they weren't getting cancelled and began writing cliffhanger season finales again, that's when they actually got cancelled. Luckily, that coincided with a short-lived boom in direct-to-DVD features, which just as quickly went bust, and that market hole of "cult series revivals and reunion specials" would go unfilled for most of the rest of the decade until the rise of streaming platform exclusives. I swear, you could do a dissertation on the evolution of TV sci-fi in narrative and business terms just through the Stargate franchise.

Of course, the Lost City movie would've been a bit different than the two-part episode, aside from costing a lot more money. Atlantis actually would've been under the ice near the second Stargate, and the SGC would begin operating out of it in the sequel series. The Stargate program, and the invasion, would've been made public. There would've been more action scenes of the Goa'uld fighting conventional Earth military, such as actually seeing the attack on the aircraft carrier group.

The writers didn't plan in advance. Then got what's her name to do these episodes, she didn't want to do a full blown series. But the writers knew that's what they were planning, so really shitty planning by the writers.

The reason for the fake out is Lost City was supposed to find... the Lost City when it was supposed to be a movie. Instead they got a 7th season. Which is why I don't like season 7. I expected it to me more grand, a bigger lead up to Atlantis and the season is like 'Here's some random junk' with just a touch of Atlantis.

Interesting. It seems like at the time a lot of series felt they would have a short life because Farscape was the same way, despite them having end of the year cliffhangers. At least that's what I remember from Season 1. Still, I do hope to have access (probably renting via Itunes) to the Stargate movies (Ark of Truth and Continuum) but that makes sense if this would have been a movie. I actually wish this was a movie and it wasn't broken up into two parts. If you're going to go big like this, make it a long finale. Of course constraints on the sci fi channel didn't allow that, but Star Trek used to have two hour premieres and finales.

 

[JD]

I hadn't heard about Lost City being planned as a movie, but personally I'm glad it didn't happen that way. I think what we ended up getting with Atlantis was a lot more interesting that it would have been if it was just a continuation of SG-1, set on Earth.

 

[fireproof78]

It's not like Threads is one of the most important episodes in the show or anything. Why would a streaming service do that? Save time?

DVDs did the same thing. It's not that surprising.

 

[David cgc]

DVDs did the same thing. It's not that surprising.

Only briefly. The first run of the DVDs was the hour-long version, but they quickly did a new pressing that had the long version. I remember when I got the season 8 set, after the long version had begun going out, I still ended up with the short one (and this was the very first DVD release, back when every disc had it's own full-size DVD case, for consistency with when they initially sold each disc of each season set on it's own before collecting them). I took it back to Best Buy for an exchange. I had to go over every inch of the box to find some serial number or SKU that was different on the ones they had, and figured the higher one was probably the reprint. I was right.

But, like I said, that was just after the DVDs came out. The slimline cases, the big stupid complete series box where all the discs fell out, and the new white-box releases would all have the long version.

Unfortunately, while the long version of Threads is available on most DVDs, Amazon streaming seems to be the only place to get the last three seasons of SG-1 in HD, so the long version in glorious 1080p (except for most of the visual effects, which were still being done at lower resolutions) remains a beautiful dream.

 

[Romulan_spy]

Interesting. It seems like at the time a lot of series felt they would have a short life because Farscape was the same way, despite them having end of the year cliffhangers. At least that's what I remember from Season 1. Still, I do hope to have access (probably renting via Itunes) to the Stargate movies (Ark of Truth and Continuum) but that makes sense if this would have been a movie. I actually wish this was a movie and it wasn't broken up into two parts. If you're going to go big like this, make it a long finale. Of course constraints on the sci fi channel didn't allow that, but Star Trek used to have two hour premieres and finales.

Yeah, I wish Lost City had been a movie. I think it would have been really good and even better than what we got.

Ark of Truth does tie up some loose ends Season 10. Continuum also ties up some loose ends from Season 10 but is also a bit derivative of past stories that SG1 already did.

 

[bigdaddy]

I hadn't heard about Lost City being planned as a movie, but personally I'm glad it didn't happen that way. I think what we ended up getting with Atlantis was a lot more interesting that it would have been if it was just a continuation of SG-1, set on Earth.

It actually wouldn't have been all that different than what we got.

Also the ideas of Atlantis started in season 3 I believe. I'm not sure what the plan was exactly if it did end at season 5, but they knew they had a sixth season before 5 ended so maybe Full Circle would have been the season 5 finale.

 

[Saul]

I remember they had planned to do Lost City as a movie at the end of the series or do it between series. I'm glad we got to see it in some form but it's a shame that we didn't get another Stargate movie in theaters. It would have finished the show on a high. 7 seasons would have been nice number. My interest waned with the whole Ori Arc, it just retread old ground.

 

[tomalak301]

New Order

Season 8 of SG-1. I would say this was a great start, and I already like some of the changes that have been made. Jack is back, thanks to Thor, and has been made Brigadier General, and Sam got a second promotion in this series to Lt. Colonel. Hammond is the new overseer of Homeworld Security, the secret department that oversees pretty much everything intersteller, and Teal'c got some hair. I was really hoping Teal'c would answer Jack's question, which I found amusing by the way.

We also got the return of the Replicator Fifth, who kidnapped Sam and wanted her to love him, even putting her in a fantasy world that wasn't nearly as convincing. It was nice we got a follow up to Unnatural Selection, but I was wondering what happened to the other Replicators, especially the First. Did he survive the ship being destroyed or is Fifth the only one left. What is also interesting and set the stage for Season 8 was Fifth replicated Sam. That was why he released Sam so easily.

I also liked Dr. Weir, and now we have the actress who will be playing Dr. Weir for the next 5 years, Tori HIgginson. She's a good negotiator, doesn't take any crap from anyone, and actually did pretty well against the Goa'uld delegates. I already like her, which is a good thing going into a new series. She can offset McKay.

Anyway, this was a good start to Season 8. It will be interesting alternating series and I am a little afraid of information overload, but it will be close to the Sci Fi Friday schedule.

 

[Farscape One]

I am currently at work, but I will post some thoughts in the morning.

I'm glad you are enjoying the series so far!

And it's been fun reliving some of it with you.

 

[Jayson1]

@tomalak301, if you are liking Amanda Tapping in the Stargates, I'd also recommend checking out Sanctuary, when you are done with them.
She was a star and executive producer, along with several of the writers and producers from the Stargates.
I'm a big fan of it, but you don't really hear much about it anymore these days.
In it she plays an immortal scientist who works with a secret group to help protect "Abnormals" which are basically monsters, like mermaids, big foot, werewolves, ect. It also works in a lot of almost steampunkish stuff involving real people and fictional characters from the Victorian era.

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If I recall this show was also first created through web episodes and that is what made Sci-Fi get interested in turning it into a tv show.


Jason

 

[Romulan_spy]

We also got the return of the Replicator Fifth, who kidnapped Sam and wanted her to love him, even putting her in a fantasy world that wasn't nearly as convincing. It was nice we got a follow up to Unnatural Selection, but I was wondering what happened to the other Replicators, especially the First. Did he survive the ship being destroyed or is Fifth the only one left. What is also interesting and set the stage for Season 8 was Fifth replicated Sam. That was why he released Sam so easily.

I assume that the other human form Replicators did not survive the time dilation field planet, that only Fifth survived and he is now the leader of the Replicators.

I also liked Dr. Weir, and now we have the actress who will be playing Dr. Weir for the next 5 years, Tori HIgginson. She's a good negotiator, doesn't take any crap from anyone, and actually did pretty well against the Goa'uld delegates. I already like her, which is a good thing going into a new series. She can offset McKay.

I think you are really going to like Atlantis. It has the same fun and adventure as SG1 but also greatly expands the world-building. It also has some really great episodes.

 

[Jayson1]

I assume that the other human form Replicators did not survive the time dilation field planet, that only Fifth survived and he is now the leader of the Replicators.



I think you are really going to like Atlantis. It has the same fun and adventure as SG1 but also greatly expands the world-building. It also has some really great episodes.

I agree about Atlantis. I sometimes think I might like it even better the Stargate. Of course I think it's safe to say that it really depends on how much you like McKay. He casts a huge shadow over the entire series

Jason

 

[The Wormhole]

If you're going to go big like this, make it a long finale. Of course constraints on the sci fi channel didn't allow that, but Star Trek used to have two hour premieres and finales.

On the DVD Lost City is combined into one double-length episode, which it certainly benefits from.

I also liked Dr. Weir, and now we have the actress who will be playing Dr. Weir for the next 5 years, Tori HIgginson. She's a good negotiator, doesn't take any crap from anyone, and actually did pretty well against the Goa'uld delegates. I already like her, which is a good thing going into a new series.

Truth be told, New Order is probably Dr. Weir at her best. Not saying she's a bad character or anything, though Atlantis eventually couldn't figure out what to do with her, and even when they did have material for her, she was never as good as she was in New Order.

 

[Romulan_spy]

Truth be told, New Order is probably Dr. Weir at her best. Not saying she's a bad character or anything, though Atlantis eventually couldn't figure out what to do with her, and even when they did have material for her, she was never as good as she was in New Order.

Part of the reason might be

Spoiler

we are told in "Lost City" about Weir's great negotiation skills in international diplomacy and she handles the Goauld great in "New Order" but on Atlantis, Weir never got a chance to really show off her great negotiation skills all that much. Small trade agreements with backwater planets are not that impressive and the few times where the Wraith or Genii try to negotiate, it's a trap. Most of the time, the show focused on the team getting into adventures and Weir was sidelined, relegated to the role of Hammond, to issue orders a couple times but that's it. In the Atlantis episode "Inquisition" where the Atlantis Expedition is put on trial for cimes against the galaxy, Woolsey does a great job defending the team but I think it would have been a perfect episode for Weir.

 

[bigdaddy]

I watched New Order and Rising last night. Loads of fun. Still amazed by how good Atlantis started. Also feel later SG-1 seasons I think would have benefitted from 13-15 episode seasons. There are too much filler, but it's really good. The changes the hsow makes throughout the years feel very organic... most of the time.

I agree about Atlantis. I sometimes think I might like it even better the Stargate. Of course I think it's safe to say that it really depends on how much you like McKay. He casts a huge shadow over the entire series

I had roommates that LOVED Atlantis and never saw SG1. I stupidity left town, but I wish I got them to watch SG-1. More so because of the crossovers.

tomolak, come back and read this after finishing Atlantis. Or before, you will know when. Trust me.

Spoiler

I also liked Dr. Weir, and now we have the actress who will be playing Dr. Weir for the next 5 years, Tori HIgginson.

 

[David cgc]

Part of the reason might be

Spoiler

we are told in "Lost City" about Weir's great negotiation skills in international diplomacy and she handles the Goauld great in "New Order" but on Atlantis, Weir never got a chance to really show off her great negotiation skills all that much. Small trade agreements with backwater planets are not that impressive and the few times where the Wraith or Genii try to negotiate, it's a trap. Most of the time, the show focused on the team getting into adventures and Weir was sidelined, relegated to the role of Hammond, to issue orders a couple times but that's it. In the Atlantis episode "Inquisition" where the Atlantis Expedition is put on trial for cimes against the galaxy, Woolsey does a great job defending the team but I think it would have been a perfect episode for Weir.

Spoiler: Weir's storyline

I was just looking up to see if there was a good answer to why Weir was written off the show (or, for that matter, why she was recast in the first place). Information is still fairly thin, but it sounds like part of it was that Weir was supposed to be more of a Hammond type, but was a much bigger part of the ensemble in the first three seasons, without the writing actually doing much with her that was specific to her characterization, just giving her plots that focused on her that weren't necessarily "Weir plots." I'm not sure why it was decided to write her off entirely in season 4 rather than retool her character, but the impression I get is the new showrunners didn't want to keep foregrounding her, but it was also unacceptable to turn her into briefing-room-exposition-person except for a couple episodes every season. Plus, at the time, there was a lot of anti-Weir whining on the web, so that might've also contributed to the decision.

I do agree that seeing more of Weir doing her thing on Atlantis the way she did in "New Order" would've been great, but I guess since the show hadn't yet aged out of being primarily action-adventure, doing those kind of talky, dramatic plots wasn't a big priority. I mean, imagine a version of "The Return" where Weir is going nose-to-nose with the Ancient ship captain over who should be running Atlantis, instead of being pushed the side so Woolsey could just roll over for them.

I just had a thought, I wonder if Altman & Gross have another geek-media oral history book on the table. There's probably a great one to be had about Stargate. You could probably get to two volumes, easily, if you threw in all the unproduced stuff, like the sequels to the original movie by Devlin and Emmerich, the cancelled video games, the additional Origins webseries (and the entire idea of a Stargate-exclusive streaming website).