Donny's Refit Enterprise Interiors (Version 2.0)

[137th Gebirg]

I do remember seeing a close-up photo of that whole panel (can't remember if it was a real set photo, or one of Donny's amazingly photo-realistic recreations), that had two small rounded inset cubicles with a surfacing that conveyed a visual queue strongly resembling a miniaturized transporter chamber. I also remember seeing early Phase II bridge diagrams that had a full-person-sized intra-ship transporter in that location (and, yes, the Mego toy as well), but that definitely changed somewhere along the way, and by the time TMP rolled out, it had split into two smaller ones, that could only be used for replication - I think more for tools, maintenance equipment and such than food. They were difficult to see, as they seemed to be covered up by two pieces of heavily tinted glass...er...transparent aluminum.

 

[Lt. Washburn]

Hmm, I always thought the tubes in the TUC kitchen were dumbwaiters...dumbturbos?

 

[Donny]

I know that's what that station was supposed to be, but did we ever see it clearly enough to confirm what it was or how it was put together? I've always assumed that it was meant to be a one-person transporter booth or something, if someone needed to beam directly to/from the bridge. (Perhaps my thinking was influenced by the MEGO bridge playset.)

I do remember seeing a close-up photo of that whole panel (can't remember if it was a real set photo, or one of Donny's amazingly photo-realistic recreations), that had two small rounded inset cubicles with a surfacing that conveyed a visual queue strongly resembling a miniaturized transporter chamber. I also remember seeing early Phase II bridge diagrams that had a full-person-sized intra-ship transporter in that location (and, yes, the Mego toy as well), but that definitely changed somewhere along the way, and by the time TMP rolled out, it had split into two smaller ones, that could only be used for replication - I think more for tools, maintenance equipment and such than food. They were difficult to see, as they seemed to be covered up by two pieces of heavily tinted glass...er...transparent aluminum.

We can read the display panel in a few shots, and it is clearly labeled "Transporter", which most likely means those two recessed slots were indeed intended to be miniature transporter units:

We never get a good look at those two recessed slots, as they were covered with dark tinted glass in the film, and later covered completely by greeble panels added for TWOK, but I've gone ahead and followed through with this idea that they are mini-transporter units in my renders:


As far as replicators/food slots go, we don't really know when, canonically, they began being called/considered true "replicators", but it would appear to be sometime before TNG and after TOS? There's a lot of debate on whether TOS food slots are actually replicators, or just food synthesizers, or what the difference actually is. TMoST describes that the food is prepared quickly elsewhere and then delivered to the food slots via a mini-turbolift system. I never really liked the mini-turbolift system idea, but it is what it is. I see TOS food slots as food synthesizers that replicate food via matter storage, and I'm not sure if that makes them any different from the replicators we come to know in TNG. But that's just me. I guess it's up to interpretation. IIRC, TMoST also talks about how there are matter replicators for industrial purposes onboard ship (correct me if I'm wrong, as I don't have the book handy), so I don't see why this wouldn't rule out being able to replicate food as well.

But, for what it's worth, we don't see food ever being replicated, generated, or otherwise delivered via a food slot in any of the movies, unless you count the TUC galley scene as food being prepared by cooks AND replicated by the machinery in the room. I am going with these TMP/TWOK machines I'm generating as "food synthesizers", and I'll leave how the food is synthesized up to the imagination of the individual

 

[cardinal biggles]

I see Donny beat me to it, but...

From Lee Cole's Enterprise Flight Manual:

"This console transports and receives small items within the ship. (For example, a crew member might request the engine room to send him up a pair of plyers.)"​

When they were still making the TV show, it might have been intended to be a people transporter, but by the time it was a movie, they had changed plans.

 

[Donny]

I see Donny beat me to it, but...

From Lee Cole's Enterprise Flight Manual:

"This console transports and receives small items within the ship. (For example, a crew member might request the engine room to send him up a pair of plyers.)"​

When they were still making the TV show, it might have been intended to be a people transporter, but by the time it was a movie, they had changed plans.

Side note: The "Artificial Gravity Station" in TMP/TWOK/TSFS, was actually where the transporter station was in Phase II:

The console was turned about 90 degrees for the films, but still had the transporter console graphics on it, which were very similar to the graphics of the actual Transporter Room's console.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

And, I believe I said this before, but yes. I do have plans to model a TMP/TWOK version of this galley

Cool! That'll be fun to see. Fresh chickens for everyone!

BTW, Nicholas Meyer's justification for the galley in STVI was that the replicators needed to "freshen up" their food patterns every one in a while by scanning or duplicating real food. He said something like, "I'd never want to eat replicated food, but if I did, I'd want it to be replicated off of a fresh chicken."

There were a pair of micro-transporters on the bridge starting with TMP, in between the tactical station and the main viewscreen. What else could those have been for, other than to be used as replicators?

Yeah, I remember reading that they were supposed to be used to beam over small tools and repair kits to the bridge. I'm not sure where I read that, though. Return to Tomorrow, maybe?

IIRC, TMoST also talks about how there are matter replicators for industrial purposes onboard ship (correct me if I'm wrong, as I don't have the book handy), so I don't see why this wouldn't rule out being able to replicate food as well.

I found the section on food prep on pg. 188 of my paperback copy of TMoST. It's a bit too long for me to copy in its entirety, but it begins, "The food preparation galley is also highly automated. No chefs in white hats here." In a nutshell, it says that all the food recipes are stored on computer tape, a person makes a selection "from an infinite variety of food" by pushing buttons, and then "From the central food preparation area, the selection is transferred via a small turbo lift [sic] that connects the several dining and recreation areas scattered throughout the ship." It also notes that it regards McCoy's mention of "reconstituted" food [in "Arena", IIRC] and Kirk's request to at least make the Thanksgiving meatloaf look like turkeys [from "Charlie X"] as errors.

But hey, TMoST also said that the Enterprise had cargo transporters, and there's no evidence of those on the show, so...

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Side note: The "Artificial Gravity Station" in TMP/TWOK/TSFS, was actually where the transporter station was in Phase II:

The console was turned about 90 degrees for the films, but still had the transporter console graphics on it, which were very similar to the graphics of the actual Transporter Room's console.

This pic just makes me wanna see your interpretation of the PII bridge more.

 

[cardinal biggles]

Oh, yeah, that would be fun!

 

[Mytran]

Side note: The "Artificial Gravity Station" in TMP/TWOK/TSFS, was actually where the transporter station was in Phase II:

The console was turned about 90 degrees for the films, but still had the transporter console graphics on it, which were very similar to the graphics of the actual Transporter Room's console.

That's a new one on me! It also explains why in TMP there's a "standing console" the same size and width as a "seated console"

 

[Christopher]

We never get a good look at those two recessed slots, as they were covered with dark tinted glass in the film, and later covered completely by greeble panels added for TWOK, but I've gone ahead and followed through with this idea that they are mini-transporter units in my renders:

I think I figured they were windows in a door that you could open and step inside, though I guess that panel is awfully narrow for a door.

There's a lot of debate on whether TOS food slots are actually replicators, or just food synthesizers, or what the difference actually is.

The difference is self-evident from the names. To synthesize something is to assemble it from basic components; to replicate something is to copy it. It's the difference between, say, a musical synthesizer that constructs a simulation of an instrument's sound from pure tones and a sampler that uses digital recordings of real instruments. A food synthesizer constructs artificial approximations of foodstuffs from basic chemical building blocks; a replicator stores the transporter patterns of actual food items and creates exact (well, molecular-level) replicas of them.

IIRC, TMoST also talks about how there are matter replicators for industrial purposes onboard ship (correct me if I'm wrong, as I don't have the book handy), so I don't see why this wouldn't rule out being able to replicate food as well.

I can't find any such reference in the chapter on the Enterprise, just a mention of the automated galley and the ship's laundry that breaks garments down to raw components and reassembles them.

I see Donny beat me to it, but...

From Lee Cole's Enterprise Flight Manual:

"This console transports and receives small items within the ship. (For example, a crew member might request the engine room to send him up a pair of plyers.)"​

What page is that on? The table of contents says there's a page for it between weapons & defense and damage repair, but if so, my copy is missing that page.

 

[cardinal biggles]

We never get a good look at those two recessed slots, as they were covered with dark tinted glass in the film, and later covered completely by greeble panels added for TWOK, but I've gone ahead and followed through with this idea that they are mini-transporter units in my renders:

This isn't exactly a good look, but it does show the inside of the mini-transporter chambers lit up. I never noticed it before.

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tmp2/tmphd0927.jpg

 

[cardinal biggles]

What page is that on? The table of contents says there's a page for it between weapons & defense and damage repair, but if so, my copy is missing that page.

I'm looking at the copy here:

https://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/efm.php

 

[Redfern]

I can't recall if it was something I read in these forums or within a small private board when I debated/speculated with a friend. I think the latter, but if I'm wrong, correct me. Anyway, it was the replicator vs. dumbwaiter "argument", specifically during the classic "5 year mission/3 year broadcast". He went with replicators; I championed dumbwaiters. When I reminded him of the passages from "The Making of Star trek", he laughingly conceded.

But then we mulled over the subject. He agreed the full on "transporter" technology was probably too advanced for 2260 something. I agreed the mini turbo tube delivery system was absurdly complicated and wasteful. then I remembered a concept of mid 20th century Americana, the "automat", the diner where one inserts money that unlocks a panel upon a refrigeration machine where one can extract a portion of food. Rather than a central robotic kitchen launching dinners throughout the ship via pneumatic tubes, why couldn't there be a wall's worth of machinery behind those "food slots" where the ingredients are stored and localized mechanisms prepare the food, for certain items using a quasi "3D printing" approach? These units would be housed in the various main recreational areas where there would be a decent amount of traffic, not in every cabin. Yes, we saw a food slot in "Mirror" kirk's cabin that served drinks, but that was the "mirror" universe. Also, it was his cabin, so i can imagine he had various unique things installed, like the Tantalus device. In "our" Kirk's cabin, that slot was always depicted as a safe...I think.

The one flaw with this notion is the food slot that appeared in the transporter room in "Tomorrow is Yesterday". I realize this was arranged as both a production and a narrative shortcut; keep the guard distracted so he doesn't see too much, but, yeah, "in universe", there's little to justify a food slot there, regardless of the technology behind it.

 

[Christopher]

then I remembered a concept of mid 20th century Americana, the "automat", the diner where one inserts money that unlocks a panel upon a refrigeration machine where one can extract a portion of food.

Not a "refrigeration machine," just individual cubbyholes loaded with food items from behind. A lot like the serving case in NX-01's mess hall in ENT, except each item was in a separate cubbyhole and you had to insert coins to open the doors. Automats were an intermediate evolutionary stage between the diner and the vending machine.

 

[Donny]

The difference is self-evident from the names. To synthesize something is to assemble it from basic components; to replicate something is to copy it. It's the difference between, say, a musical synthesizer that constructs a simulation of an instrument's sound from pure tones and a sampler that uses digital recordings of real instruments. A food synthesizer constructs artificial approximations of foodstuffs from basic chemical building blocks; a replicator stores the transporter patterns of actual food items and creates exact (well, molecular-level) replicas of them.

Ahhh that makes sense. Thank you for your interpretation/explanation! I think I like the idea for, at least in 2260s-2280s, it's the food synthetsizer route, and we can infer that sometime afterwards, but before TNG, replicator technology replaces the synthesizer tech.

I can't find any such reference in the chapter on the Enterprise, just a mention of the automated galley and the ship's laundry that breaks garments down to raw components and reassembles them.

I think that's what I was remembering. Last time I read that chapter was when I modeled Kirk's bathroom in TOS and added a "garbage chute" or sorts, which looked like an oversized food slot, and its purpose was to place disposables to be broken down into their base elements to be stored in the ship's stores, and dirty laundry to be placed so that it could be broken down and reformed clean.

 

[BK613]

Yes, we saw a food slot in "Mirror" kirk's cabin that served drinks, but that was the "mirror" universe. Also, it was his cabin, so i can imagine he had various unique things installed, like the Tantalus device. In "our" Kirk's cabin, that slot was always depicted as a safe...I think.

The safe was on the table side, the food slot on the bed side. You can see it clearly in Uhura's cabin in The Tholian Web:
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x09hd/thetholianwebhd1050.jpg

 

[Donny]

The safe was on the table side, the food slot on the bed side. You can see it clearly in Uhura's cabin in The Tholian Web:
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x09hd/thetholianwebhd1050.jpg

Yep, the food slot in the officer’s cabin was never seen used other than the Mirror Universe, but it is nonetheless there in the Prime Universe after Mirror Mirror, anyway

 

[Maurice]

Cool! That'll be fun to see. Fresh chickens for everyone!

BTW, Nicholas Meyer's justification for the galley in STVI was that the replicators needed to "freshen up" their food patterns every one in a while by scanning or duplicating real food. He said something like, "I'd never want to eat replicated food, but if I did, I'd want it to be replicated off of a fresh chicken."

Yeah, I remember reading that they were supposed to be used to beam over small tools and repair kits to the bridge. I'm not sure where I read that, though. Return to Tomorrow, maybe?

I found the section on food prep on pg. 188 of my paperback copy of TMoST. It's a bit too long for me to copy in its entirety, but it begins, "The food preparation galley is also highly automated. No chefs in white hats here." In a nutshell, it says that all the food recipes are stored on computer tape, a person makes a selection "from an infinite variety of food" by pushing buttons, and then "From the central food preparation area, the selection is transferred via a small turbo lift [sic] that connects the several dining and recreation areas scattered throughout the ship." It also notes that it regards McCoy's mention of "reconstituted" food [in "Arena", IIRC] and Kirk's request to at least make the Thanksgiving meatloaf look like turkeys [from "Charlie X"] as errors.

But hey, TMoST also said that the Enterprise had cargo transporters, and there's no evidence of those on the show, so...

<cracks knuckles>

The food preparation' galley is also highly automated. No chefs in white hats here. The mechanical functions of measuring and mixing spices, sauces, stews, and so forth have been transferred to the computer tape. The art of cooking today will be translated into computer programming in the future. Although there may be ten thousand "best ways" to make a certain type of sauce, a computer can record and duplicate each more efficiently than a dozen chefs. You simply program the computer and a mechanical unit makes it. The enormous sophistication of computers aboard the Enterprise makes possible the producing of the thousand best menus of the thousand best restaurants in all the alien planets of the Federation. Crew members can select an infinite variety of food—they simply press the button. From the central food preparation area, the selection is transferred via a small turbo lift that connects the several dining and recreation areas scattered throughout the ship. This concept is in direct contrast to the belief held by many science-fiction writers, that men of the future will take nourishment via pills. (But discrepancies to this overall thinking have crept into at least two shows, one in which disparaging remarks were made about "reconstituted" food by McCoy, and another where the Captain rather apologetically requests the galley to make fake Thanksgiving turkey out of meat loaf. . . . Considering the pressure under which the series is produced, it is surprising there are not more serious inconsistencies.)

MY ATTITUDE WAS, WHY SHOULD MAN GIVE UP THE JOY OF HAM AND EGGS IF THE FOOD PRESERVATION TECHNOLOGY OF THE PERIOD WOULD PERMIT HIM TO HAVE IT? BOTH TRADITION AND TASTE WILL KEEP ROAST TOM TURKEY POPULAR FOR THANKSGIVING DINNER. IN FACT, THERE WILL PROBABLY BE A BLENDING OF DELICACIES FROM MANY PLANETS—A MUCH GREATER RANGE OF FOOD AND CULINARY ARTISTRY THAN WE CAN EVEN CONCEIVE NOW. JUST AS IN AMERICAN RESTAURANTS TODAY WE HAVE MENUS BORROWED FROM GERMANY, SPAIN, SOUTH AMERICA, JAPAN, ALL COUNTRIES. IT’S THE SAME WAY IN OUR ENTERPRISE GALLEY, ONLY MORE SO.
​

In order to support this food preparation capability, the Enterprise has extensive food storage areas with preservation techniques that maintain food in "garden-fresh condition" over extended periods of time. Hydroponic food growing is not necessary and would use a disproportionate amount of manpower. There are, of course, hydroponics tanks aboard that are part of the botany laboratories. There is also a section where crew members can prepare individual dishes if they wish—an activity that comes under the heading of "recreation."​

No, I did not type that. Lol.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Last time I read that chapter was when I modeled Kirk's bathroom in TOS and added a "garbage chute" or sorts, which looked like an oversized food slot, and its purpose was to place disposables to be broken down into their base elements to be stored in the ship's stores, and dirty laundry to be placed so that it could be broken down and reformed clean.

Personally, I wouldn't want to mix in my dirty laundry with food waste, but that's just me.

No, I did not type that. Lol.

Good. God knows that I didn't want to.

 

[Christopher]

I'm looking at the copy here:

https://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/efm.php

Hmm, I'm definitely missing that page. I don't think I ever had it. I guess I just figured that the table of contents was left over from an earlier draft and that the page on the transporter was replaced by the hand-drawn update about the weapons console.