Spoilers On Seven and sexuality
- Thread starter rfmcdpei
- Start date
I remember TPTB giving T'Pol a terminal disease as part of UPN's AIDS Awareness campaign.
As did Lewis Carroll:
Politics is always apart of entertainment media. Even if it is explicit by the authors it will be interpreted by the audience through that lens.I remember TPTB giving T'Pol a terminal disease as part of UPN's AIDS Awareness campaign.
DSC and PIC are neither new nor offensive facets of this trend.
So does Adam Savage
Five hetero white guys named Billy Bob
"The good old days".
Many people could easily and truthfully claim the exact opposite experience: that LGBT people are commonplace in their social orbit and everyday lives, and that seeing increased representation on television is bringing a sense of realism to what they watch. Whether something aligns with your specific experience or not is not necessarily an accurate barometer for realism.
In Discovery, not counting Mirror Universe characters, there are three confirmed LGBT characters: Stamets, Culber and Reno. On Picard, we have two characters who are implied to be sexually fluid to some degree, which has now been confirmed multiple times by Michael Chabon -- so at this point, there really isn't any debate on how to interpret those Seven scenes. It's fine that people didn't pick up on it, but it's also been made pretty clear by Chabon that those who did were correct in their interpretation. Chabon may no longer be showrunner, but will remain involved as an executive producer, has written two episodes for season two, and given that he has said the Seven/Raffi relationship will be explored in season two, there isn't any reason not to believe him.
With that out of the way: it really isn't unrealistic or farfetched at all for there to be a mere five canonically gay/bi characters out of the hundreds of characters we've seen thus far across the Trek franchise. If it were up to many of the actors and writers involved with the Berman-era Trek series, we would have seen many more LGBT characters on these shows a lot sooner than we did, and that still wouldn't have been an unrealistic amount. The galaxy is massive and filled with countless lifeforms -- they certainly aren't all going to be cishet. Honestly, it's more unrealistic that the 24th Century had for so long been depicted as beholden to retrograde 20th Century ideas about gender and sexuality.
Frankly, the need so many people seem to have to try to calculate the "correct" percentage of LGBT characters for any given piece of media is dehumanizing and betrays a fundamental lack of understanding of how aggressively and pervasively LGBT people have been erased from or minimized in historical narratives as well as mainstream film and television, which of course spreads the perception that we barely exist, and that's by design. Further, a lot of these conversations about "realism" in television vis a vis minority representation tend to be disingenuous, anyway: a lot of people only seem to care about shows conforming to standards of realism when they're confronted with content they'd rather not see.
Regarding Seven's apparent lack of interest in women on VOY: setting aside the fact that The Powers That Be never would have allowed otherwise, Seven was at the mercy of her crewmates and their decisions in how to best teach her about the basics of life, including romance and dating. As others have already pointed out, she didn't really have the full opportunity to explore her identity until after she arrived on Earth and could learn that there's a lot more to life and to being human than what she had been exposed to on that ship. Beyond that, sexuality is complex; there isn't any one "correct" way to grow into our sexual identities, it's different for everyone. A lot can happen to a person in just a few years, let alone the two decades Seven has spent living before we caught up with her in Picard. Additionally, there are plenty of aspects of ourselves that not everyone sees, but they are still important facets of our identities. They don't cease to exist when they aren't being perceived by outside observers. Just because we as viewers weren't privy to any sort of grand "coming out" moment for Seven doesn't necessarily mean it never happened, and just because she didn't have a same-sex relationship in Voyager doesn't mean she can't be attracted to women as well as men (or anyone else across the gender spectrum). For many people, sexuality is fluid and cannot be compartmentalized in either a "straight" or "gay" box. Diversity of sexual identity is a recurring theme of science fiction, albeit much more in literature than mainstream TV, but it nevertheless seems fitting that a show like Picard would explore it in some fashion.
I do not know many gay people, most of the people I know are black. I want all TV shows to reflect this OK!!!!
Yoko and me?
Is it alcohol, or synthohol, and 30 years later, what is the fucking difference?
Hangovers
Oh yeeahhh...
Absolutely, I was about to post that same thought. And with Seven's character, what we know about her up to this point, plus her age, etc. I can find it more plausible and believable. On a personal level, even relatable.
Seven lives in a universe where some species have one gendar and some species have four gendars, so who she romances as long as they are sentient beings would be irrelevant to her. This is a universe where a humanoid can mate with a felinoid.
I think it's a mistake to make Raffi and Seven lovers or in a relationship. To me they make better friends with a shared pass. Both have a drug issue one with that smoking substance and then Seven's drinking problem. Both have lost a child. Raffi son wants nothing to do with her and Icheb is dead. They both have even seem to have been discarded by Starfleet. Raffi got fired and for some reason Seven isn't close with her Voyager family. To me a romance between them feels ordinary and even predicable and frankly it would be more interesting to make them form a sisterly kind of bond.
The main reason and I brought this up is the show has other concerns besides their love life and I was thinking of who would be perfect to explore a relationship with Seven and that is the Borg Queen who has been disconnected from the collective. The show needs to bring some purpose for using the Borg again and Seven and the Queen to me felt like they had a special kind of bond as well. It would also be fun seeing the queen having to be a normal person again. It brings Picard into the story since he also has a history with the queen and she was fascinated by Data so she also seems interested in synch life. Also Guinan is going to be in next season so I am expecting something heavy with the Borg in season 2.
Raffi's main arc next season should not be romance but trying to connect with her son and frankly becoming a whole person again. Friendship with Seven and renewed one with Picard. Maybe her and Rios are recruited by Starfleet so they are thinking about rejoining. I assume they will only have 10 episodes so they need to really make room to fill everything in and romance in general should only be used if it ties strongly into the main plot like a Seven and Borg Queen one would do. Only way Seven and Raffi works is if Raffi leaves to be Fenis Ranger which also wouldn't be a bad idea but then that still leaves the use of the Borg this past season as being pointless. Hugh's death having no meaning to boot.
Jason
The main reason and I brought this up is the show has other concerns besides their love life and I was thinking of who would be perfect to explore a relationship with Seven and that is the Borg Queen who has been disconnected from the collective. The show needs to bring some purpose for using the Borg again and Seven and the Queen to me felt like they had a special kind of bond as well. It would also be fun seeing the queen having to be a normal person again. It brings Picard into the story since he also has a history with the queen and she was fascinated by Data so she also seems interested in synch life. Also Guinan is going to be in next season so I am expecting something heavy with the Borg in season 2.
Raffi's main arc next season should not be romance but trying to connect with her son and frankly becoming a whole person again. Friendship with Seven and renewed one with Picard. Maybe her and Rios are recruited by Starfleet so they are thinking about rejoining. I assume they will only have 10 episodes so they need to really make room to fill everything in and romance in general should only be used if it ties strongly into the main plot like a Seven and Borg Queen one would do. Only way Seven and Raffi works is if Raffi leaves to be Fenis Ranger which also wouldn't be a bad idea but then that still leaves the use of the Borg this past season as being pointless. Hugh's death having no meaning to boot.
Jason
Seven may not want anything to do with the Borg Queen again. She left the cube for a reason (had she stayed there much longer, she risked going back into a very dark place).
She left the cube for the sake of her sanity.
You’re thinking way too much about gay people on television. They don’t have to actually obey population statistics for a show, that’s absurd. They tell stories they want to tell and we’re seeing a lot more stories that aren’t just about straight and cis people. Meaning that there are going to be some gay and trans characters, this means more nerd shit to obsess over.
I’m in my 30s and trans, my sexuality has drifted around like the island from Lost.
What percentage of gay people in token appearances and only on paper do you consider enough? Can you make it into a math formula so we can calculate the precise number of gay people to add?
Because 5 out of ??? Trek crew members in the entire run of the franchise is clearly just too many gay people.
I’m not sure how you being gay has anything to do with this. This isn’t a rpg, playing the “gay card” doesn’t boost your stats.
I’m pretty Seven was into Janeway, Janeway gives off a powerful lesbian energy that drew in every single lesbian and bi woman ever known. She’s like Xena in space.
Drift on. Spread the love
It should be noted that Jeri Taylor did want Seven of Nine to be lesbian, and was blocked only by Berman. Observers at the time thought it likely.
http://www.qrd.org/qrd/media/television/1997/will.new.star.trek.character.be.lesbian-09.05.97
That potential, of Seven as an outsider in a lot of ways, has been with the character from the start. At least they have started to build on this, if two decades later.
http://www.qrd.org/qrd/media/television/1997/will.new.star.trek.character.be.lesbian-09.05.97
That potential, of Seven as an outsider in a lot of ways, has been with the character from the start. At least they have started to build on this, if two decades later.
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