A decline in quality in everything or am I just getting old??

[ichab]

The interesting test is to see if the stuff of today is worst I think will be in the future when we look back and see how much of the current stuff is still popular and whether much of it has a timeless appeal to it much like TOS.Classic Star Wars,Back to the Future etc. Will people 20 years for now still be huge fans of the MCU for example. Will all these Disney remakes hold up or in the end will the old cartoons of Ariel and Jungle Book etc will go back to being the definitive versions. I think we already know which Ghostbusters people will still love in 20 years and chances are even if this new one is good it still will be kind of forgotten and the 1984 version will still be the best.

Heck nobody has even been able to do a modern Superman movie that matches the 78 version. I think this is a issue when you have era dominated by remakes and reboots. They are almost doomed even if they are good to always live in the shadow of the classic versions that came before them. In this regard I do think the MCU does stand a chance to still be loved because it has basically defined the Marvel brand.


Jason

I think the MCU will hold up fine do to the fact that it was all original and not remakes. Now once Disney decides to start rebooting those characters we will see how well they hold up to the originals.

Never watched Dr.Who but I have always been a fan of Star Wars and Star Trek. I think Star Wars is in a much better place than it was after the prequals. I love the Mandalorian series and liked all the Disney movies except TLJ. Star Trek on other hand hasn't been interesting to me since the end of DS9 and Nemesis. With Enterprise,the Abrams movies and Discovery they seemed to just want to rehash the past. I was so glad that the Picard series came along to move the story forward. Haven't had a chance to watch it much but it's on the bucket list.


Having said all that, to each his/her own. Like what you like and who cares what others think? This is just my opinion.

 

[fireproof78]

But prescriptive views ruin enjoyment. Ditch them and you will be happier.

Indeed.

 

[Jayson1]

I give Kurtzmantrek a B+. It has flaws and some eyebrow raising canon moments. But it has great characters, compelling stories and the soul of Star Trek.

It does not always match my prescriptive view of what Trek should be. Although Picard actually kind of does. It bears passing similarities to stuff I said in 2001 about what I wanted instead of Ent and to a webcomic I wrote (Except eugenic shapeshifter assassins with narcotic reactions to fulfilling missions instead of androids).

But prescriptive views ruin enjoyment. Ditch them and you will be happier.

If they changed Superman because modern audiences aren’t as into one sided power dynamics it has nothing to do with political correctness. Just a different attitude toward power.

That's kind of how I feel. Out of the big three in Star Trek, Star Wars and Doctor Who I feel like Trek has actually done the best job. I really loved the Kelvinverse movies in terms of being exciting action adventure and I feel like Picard is pretty good as a real drama though I am not sure it's going to stick the landing after the latest episode but hopefully it will get another season so that can just be a small hiccup, Star Wars has been mostly solid as well but when it was bad it was really really bad in The Last Jedi. Everthing else has been fine and it does have the actually best offering of the bunch in The Mandolorian. Doctor Who has fallen of a cliff under Chibnall and it really needs to do something to fix things or else it will become like Terminator. A dead franchise for at least 6 to 10 years.

The upside is we have had some things come and fill the gap and even things that sort of have replaced the feelings of those franchises use to create.

The Orville is kind of like the Trek for people who like only old Trek and new fans who like both types of Trek.

Legends of Tomorrow now feels like what a modern Doctor Who should be more than the current Doctor Who does.

The MCU sort of replaced Star Wars on the movie scene and since Star Wars never really had much to do with in tv so it's even gained something it use to not have with The Mandolorian and The Clone Wars carton.

I think what miss most though in present day is the anti-hero leads or shows about terrible people. I keep looking around for the next Sopranos,Dexter,Breaking Bad etc. I feel like we got Better Call Saul and nothing else in this genre. While I like political based shows when done right I really miss these pure character driven stories about conflicted and frankly immoral men. I was hoping with a increase in diversity we would even see this genre expand it's offerings so it isn't just white guys as well. I mean we have one good one in How to be a God in Central Florida and we did have Duece as well but I feel like this genre has sort of gave away to political allegory stories. Some good but many of them bad but mostly just to many of them.
I'm also afraid we are on the verge of loosing our weird surreal shows as well. Doctor Who tried to become more mainstream. Legion and Preacher just ended. Twin Peaks came and left again. Right now we got Legends of Tomorrow and Lodge 49 but we could really use some more weird on tv. Which frankly also use to be something you could get out of Trek but even weirdness in Trek has been covered over to a point where Picard looks like it's taking place 50 years from now instead of hundreds of years from now.

Jason

 

[JirinPanthosa]

That's kind of how I feel. Out of the big three in Star Trek, Star Wars and Doctor Who I feel like Trek has actually done the best job. I really loved the Kelvinverse movies in terms of being exciting action adventure and I feel like Picard is pretty good as a real drama though I am not sure it's going to stick the landing after the latest episode but hopefully it will get another season so that can just be a small hiccup, Star Wars has been mostly solid as well but when it was bad it was really really bad in The Last Jedi. Everthing else has been fine and it does have the actually best offering of the bunch in The Mandolorian. Doctor Who has fallen of a cliff under Chibnall and it really needs to do something to fix things or else it will become like Terminator. A dead franchise for at least 6 to 10 years.

The upside is we have had some things come and fill the gap and even things that sort of have replaced the feelings of those franchises use to create.

The Orville is kind of like the Trek for people who like only old Trek and new fans who like both types of Trek.

Legends of Tomorrow now feels like what a modern Doctor Who should be more than the current Doctor Who does.

The MCU sort of replaced Star Wars on the movie scene and since Star Wars never really had much to do with in tv so it's even gained something it use to not have with The Mandolorian and The Clone Wars carton.

I think what miss most though in present day is the anti-hero leads or shows about terrible people. I keep looking around for the next Sopranos,Dexter,Breaking Bad etc. I feel like we got Better Call Saul and nothing else in this genre. While I like political based shows when done right I really miss these pure character driven stories about conflicted and frankly immoral men. I was hoping with a increase in diversity we would even see this genre expand it's offerings so it isn't just white guys as well. I mean we have one good one in How to be a God in Central Florida and we did have Duece as well but I feel like this genre has sort of gave away to political allegory stories. Some good but many of them bad but mostly just to many of them.
I'm also afraid we are on the verge of loosing our weird surreal shows as well. Doctor Who tried to become more mainstream. Legion and Preacher just ended. Twin Peaks came and left again. Right now we got Legends of Tomorrow and Lodge 49 but we could really use some more weird on tv. Which frankly also use to be something you could get out of Trek but even weirdness in Trek has been covered over to a point where Picard looks like it's taking place 50 years from now instead of hundreds of years from now.

Jason

The Last Jedi I think is the best SW outside the original trilogy. The only one that didn’t feel like a nostalgic rehash and tried to move in the direction of the force not being owned by the Skywalkers.

 

[Mytran]

The original Star Wars trilogy is often lauded, but MovieBob released a video a few months back pointing out just how weird the first film is by modern standards:

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[JD]

That's kind of how I feel. Out of the big three in Star Trek, Star Wars and Doctor Who I feel like Trek has actually done the best job. I really loved the Kelvinverse movies in terms of being exciting action adventure and I feel like Picard is pretty good as a real drama though I am not sure it's going to stick the landing after the latest episode but hopefully it will get another season so that can just be a small hiccup, Star Wars has been mostly solid as well but when it was bad it was really really bad in The Last Jedi. Everthing else has been fine and it does have the actually best offering of the bunch in The Mandolorian. Doctor Who has fallen of a cliff under Chibnall and it really needs to do something to fix things or else it will become like Terminator. A dead franchise for at least 6 to 10 years.

The upside is we have had some things come and fill the gap and even things that sort of have replaced the feelings of those franchises use to create.

The Orville is kind of like the Trek for people who like only old Trek and new fans who like both types of Trek.

Legends of Tomorrow now feels like what a modern Doctor Who should be more than the current Doctor Who does.

The MCU sort of replaced Star Wars on the movie scene and since Star Wars never really had much to do with in tv so it's even gained something it use to not have with The Mandolorian and The Clone Wars carton.

I think what miss most though in present day is the anti-hero leads or shows about terrible people. I keep looking around for the next Sopranos,Dexter,Breaking Bad etc. I feel like we got Better Call Saul and nothing else in this genre. While I like political based shows when done right I really miss these pure character driven stories about conflicted and frankly immoral men. I was hoping with a increase in diversity we would even see this genre expand it's offerings so it isn't just white guys as well. I mean we have one good one in How to be a God in Central Florida and we did have Duece as well but I feel like this genre has sort of gave away to political allegory stories. Some good but many of them bad but mostly just to many of them.
I'm also afraid we are on the verge of loosing our weird surreal shows as well. Doctor Who tried to become more mainstream. Legion and Preacher just ended. Twin Peaks came and left again. Right now we got Legends of Tomorrow and Lodge 49 but we could really use some more weird on tv. Which frankly also use to be something you could get out of Trek but even weirdness in Trek has been covered over to a point where Picard looks like it's taking place 50 years from now instead of hundreds of years from now.

Jason

Do you subscribe to any of the streaming services? You can find a lot more of the kind of stuff you're looking for there.

 

[bigdaddy]

You're defending it? I'd hate to see you attack it.

Let me rant about how awful Rose is and how bad the seasons ended with RTD who a lot of DW fans seems to warship.

It was always stupid silly, mostly fun, nothing changed.

 

[Jayson1]

Rose was great and IMO was basically the series lead in 2005 when the show came back. Then when you got Tennent they were basically co-leads like a Mulder and Scully type of situation.

Jason

 

[Nerys Myk]

I'm 61 and I love discovering new books, TV shows and films. The Expanse on page and on screen is fantastic.

 

[Mudd]

Let me rant about how awful Rose is and how bad the seasons ended with RTD who a lot of DW fans seems to warship.

Ten, Rose and Davies were the highpoint of the franchise - it was never very good before Davies, and it's been sliding and bumping its way on down ever since they left.

 

[bigdaddy]

Ten, Rose and Davies were the highpoint of the franchise - it was never very good before Davies, and it's been sliding and bumping its way on down ever since they left.

Nope. Those seasons were just as stupid as every other seasons.

RUUUUUNNNNN!!!!
Rose bitching about something.
A bunch of stupid stuff happens and then in the last 5 minutes of every seasons some timey wimpey bullshit happens and saves the day.

That's not good writing, or eve decent story telling, it's cheap and lame.

 

[Mudd]

Nope. Those seasons were just as stupid as every other seasons.

Um, sure.

 

[ichab]

The original Star Wars trilogy is often lauded, but MovieBob released a video a few months back pointing out just how weird the first film is by modern standards:

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Accept third party cookies

It's a product of its time..You could say the same about any movie that is 40 years old.

 

[suarezguy]

Well a lot of quality is subjective but yes it's more than fair to think that a lot actually has deteriorated, it's not just that you're (and I am too) harder to please.

Something I think is interesting is that while nostalgia can benefit rewatch, often enough it doesn't. You loved A, you loved B when you were young, still love A but don't really like B anymore, that suggests that A was and is better, if it was purely nostalgia you'd keep loving both rather than some holding up and some not doing so. You can also even now like some things more than you used to.

 

[ED-209]

Ten, Rose and Davies were the highpoint of the franchise - it was never very good before Davies, and it's been sliding and bumping its way on down ever since they left.

I cannot stand Rose, other than that I would agree though.

 

[fireproof78]

Rose was great and IMO was basically the series lead in 2005 when the show came back. Then when you got Tennent they were basically co-leads like a Mulder and Scully type of situation.

Jason

I think Rose is great and certainly appreciated her interactions with both 9 and 10. After she left the Doctors seemed to get more and more morose. Capaldi was probably the most enjoyable but his relationship with Clara was a struggle for me.

The rest of the Doctors have been hit and miss and haven't kept me engaged at all.

 

[Set Harth]

The only one that didn’t feel like a nostalgic rehash and tried to move in the direction of the force not being owned by the Skywalkers.

The Force was never "owned by the Skywalkers". Ben Kenobi was not a Skywalker. Palpatine and Yoda were not Skywalkers. And when you get around to watching the prequels, you'll see tons of Jedi running around, including a grand total of 1 Skywalker.

 

[JD]

The Jedi were also around for thousands of years before there were any Skywalkers.

 

[Thomas Elliot]

It's you getting old, sorry.

Every new Star Trek has been considered to be bad or "not Star Trek" since TOS season 3.

TOS season 3? Awful, the only real Star Trek are seasons 1 and 2
TAS? Stupid kids show
TMP? Boring af
TWOK+? Too militaristic
TNG? Stupid wannabe pretend Star Trek
DS9? Booooring, doesn't go anywhere
VOY? Goes too far away. Terrorists as part of the crew, ditching all established species? FUUUUUCK
ENT? Too advanced for a prequel, also boring af

Except Voyager and Enterprise weren't that good. At least as far as the general public is concerned.
TOS became part of pop-culture thanks to reruns and the movies cemented that status.
TNG got off to a rocky start but eventually became a big hit, enough to get a movie series going.
Voyager and Enterprise...they're okay at best. They didn't have anywhere near the same impact that TOS and TNG had.

It's pretty much the same with Doctor Who and Star Wars, everything new always sucks.

Not true. The Star Wars prequels were awful.

 

[Thomas Elliot]

To the OP: I don't think there's a decline in quality these days. Quite the opposite, we're living in a golden age of television. There's so many good shows out there with so much variety, and streaming platforms have contributed to that.
I think it's because you're focusing on old properties that are still being pushed today.
Yeah, there seems to be a sharp decline in quality if I only was watching Star Wars and Star Trek. These are stale properties trying to stay relevant. Star Wars was new and exciting when I was a kid. Now it's just remixed with a younger cast. I was entertained watching The Force Awakens but it wasn't anything special and I could live with out it.
Guardians of the Galaxy? That was a blast and more exciting and felt fresh and new. Yeah, it's based on an c-list group of Marvel characters, but it was virtually unknown to the general public and movie goers-like myself.

How about Interstellar? Holy crap, great movie. And it's telling a new story.
Stranger Things Season 1? Amazing.
Rick and Morty? Insane and fun.

How about Star Trek: Picard? It was okay, I guess.

* Attack on Titan

I had TNG as a teenager, now I have Attack on Titan as an adult. I went into this anime not expecting much and I became hooked. It was a new concept with this whole new set of characters, and this new world with its own history.

* Battlestar Galactica

I was required to watch this a few years back and I'm glad I did. One helluva remake. I never saw the original, but I loved this reboot.
[/QUOTE]

I'm happy that others enjoy DSC and PIC. I've rediscovered Star Trek recently and I'm getting a kick out of watching TOS films and reruns of TNG. I'm starting to watch TOS as well because I'm pretty unfamiliar with it aside from the Bea Arthur episode, the tribbles, and when Kirk fights the lizard man. PIC kind of feels like a a pick and pull of other SF franchises and not really its own thing. So I'm more content to check out old Trek and maybe some of the old DC comics for that fix.