A decline in quality in everything or am I just getting old??

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Kahlesh, Mar 17, 2020.



  1. You're right

    10 vote(s)
  2. Where's your zimmer frame gramps?

    31 vote(s)
  1. Kahlesh

    Kahlesh Commander Red Shirt

    Feb 14, 2019
    So my three main TV/Movie loves.

    Star Trek
    Star Wars
    Doctor Who

    just seem to have had a severe decline in quality in the last decade. As in the writers just don't seem to "get it" or in the case of Doctor Who since Matt Smith left the stories have just gotten worse (with a couple of exceptions).

    I'm willing to accept this is just me getting old, and I'm just not "with it" anymore, is that the case or is what I am saying true?
  2. Marynator

    Marynator Vice Princess Premium Member

    Mar 12, 2018
    United States
    I feel that it's normal to always think that what you liked first is "best." You see this happening all the time, like many older people thinking 60s music was good *shudder*

    Personally, I could never get into Doctor Who before, and not from a lack of trying. I just thought it was awful. But I love these new seasons and am finally a fan of the show. From my perspective, it finally got good.

    I feel a big way you can work to combat these feelings is to really be aware that "not the same doesn't mean inferior," which I do know is hard. Things are different now than they used to be, but most of the time that only makes them worse if you choose to perceive them that way.
  3. Batai

    Batai Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

    Mar 6, 2020
    Star Wars really went downhill mostly because they picked the worst director possible for TLJ. The only episode of Dr. Who I've ever watched was the one about Vincent Van Gogh, so I can't say. I love STP. Haven't watched Discovery yet, but I will probably binge it in the coming days. The story's the thing. Tell good stories and you'll be alright.
    Admiral2 likes this.
  4. AlanC9

    AlanC9 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    May 5, 2004
    I thought TLJ was the only interesting film of the new trilogy. But maybe Star Wars isn't supposed to be interesting. I find Whittaker's Doctor about tied with Smith's, with Capaldi better than either. As for Trek, I think Picard is great. DSC is kind of a trainwreck, but I enjoy it anyway.

    So I guess I'm pretty far out of step with the OP.
  5. Avro Arrow

    Avro Arrow Living the #SocialDistancing Life Moderator

    Jan 10, 2003
    Since this appears to be strictly an SF&F topic, I am moving it to that forum.
  6. Admiral2

    Admiral2 Admiral Admiral

    Sep 14, 2004
    You're right on all counts, and it is not just you getting old. Old franchises keep getting turned over to young creators who you couldn't have paid to watch what came before, and in their drive to remake the material into what they think is more modern and relevant to today's audiences what usually gets thrown out first is everything that made the old stuff worth watching.

    And, of course, you get called a racist/misogynist/homophobe if you're stupid enough to try to tell the above to said creators.
    ialfan, ichab, TREK_GOD_1 and 3 others like this.
  7. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Vice Admiral Admiral

    May 20, 2001
    West Haven, UT, USA
    How about "No"?
    Vger23, YLu, Nyotarules and 4 others like this.
  8. Ethros

    Ethros Vice Admiral Admiral

    Nov 4, 2001
    1123 6536 5321
    Slightly related in terms of getting old and thinking things were better in "your day." A friend of mine was moaning recently about how everything is just a sequel nowadays, and franchises etc. And it wasn't like that when we were kids. So I thought back 30 years and looked up some of the big movies of 1989-

    Back to the Future 2, Star Trek 5, Ghostbusters 2, Indiana Jones 3, The Fly 2, Lethal Weapon 2, The Karate Kid 3, Halloween 5, Nightmare on Elm Street 5, Licence to to Kill (Bond 16), Christmas Vacation (Vacation 3), Friday the 13th 8

    Just meaning it's not like a newish thing. A lot of the criticims you hear of things today were all probably around "back then" (whenever that was for you) but you either didn't notice, didn't care or don't remember. People always moan, always have always will.

    But for my opinion on said shows, I don't watch Doctor Who, but I had to stop watching Discovery by early s2 I couldn't stand it. And Picard, along with Star Wars 7-9, X-Files s10&11 I enjoy a little, but really are all just kind of a mess.
    So either they are bad, or I'm just getting old and prefer the stuff I watched as a fresh faced teen
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2020
    Marynator likes this.
  9. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

    Apr 11, 2014
    I'm leaning that way myself.

    I don't think it is categorical decline. I think it is just different tastes for different people. Certainly, I know I am generally an outlier because I enjoy a lot of the newer stuff out there for Trek, Star Wars, though less Who.

    I think it is more a matter of themes that speak to me. Picard and the ST both deal with really significant personal struggles that I really identify with and that appeals. But, it isn't for everyone.
    Campe likes this.
  10. Grendelsbayne

    Grendelsbayne Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Sep 24, 2013
    It's not worse.

    Current Star Wars is not that different quality wise from the other two trilogies (it does have stylistic differences, but those are a matter of taste and the difference there is no bigger than the stylistic differences betweent the OT and the PT). Frankly, outside the nostalgia glasses, Star Wars was never really that great to begin with.

    Current Star Trek is an unquestionable step up from Voy and ENT, especially now that Picard is doing so well. If Picard sticks the landing of the serialized narrative (which still remains to be seen), it could easily be an automatic candidate for one of the best Trek series period.

    I don't watch Dr. Who.

    But in general, quality dips have always been around and always will be. Any attempt to generalize those dips to 'everything that comes out today is so much worse than everything that came out years/decades ago', however, is always ridiculous on the face of it. Reality doesn't fit simplistic boxes. Some creators are better than others, both today and way back when, and some creators just have bad days and good days, both today and way back when.
    fireproof78 likes this.
  11. Awesome Possum

    Awesome Possum Take it sleazy Moderator

    Mar 13, 2001
    The Good Place
    There hasn't been a drop in quality, it's really just a matter of taste. You preferred the older stuff and the newer stuff is just different. It doesn't mean the newer stuff is bad, you just don't like it. Taste is subjective, but thanks to the internet you can put yourself into echo chambers with people with similar tastes who agree with you and it creates the illusion that it's subjective and everyone who disagrees is wrong.

    The shows and movies are the same quality, but the tones and styles have changed because film and television is constantly changing.
    Daddy Todd, YLu, The Lensman and 8 others like this.
  12. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Jul 22, 2004
    Arizona, USA
    I very much disagree, I think Star Wars and Star Trek are the best they've been in a long time.
    I'll admit, Discovery started out a little weak, but by the end of the first season it was great. Picard pretty much started out great right out of the gate. On the tie in front, the books aren't quite at the level they were back when the Relaunches began in the early '00s, but I've still been really enjoying them overall. IDW's comics might not be quite at the level of some of the best from Marvel, or DC, but they've still put out some good stuff.
    The Star Wars Sequel trilogy is not the all time classics that The Original Trilogy is, but I've still enjoyed all three of them. Resistance was the weakest of the three animated series, but I still enjoyed what I saw of it, and I absolutely loved The Clone Wars and Rebels. The Mandalorian was great. I've loved all of the books I've read, and while not all of the comics have been amazing, I've still at least enjoyed all of the ones I've read.
    I haven't seen the season of Dr. Who that just ended, but I enjoyed the last season quite a bit. It wasn't quite as good as the best of the series, but it was still good.
    I haven't really read any of the recent books, but I did just read Titan's Eighth Doctor comic miniseries, and I enjoyed that quite a bit.
    fireproof78 likes this.
  13. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Admiral Admiral

    Nov 20, 2012
    Star Trek is in the midst of its first uptick since the end of DS9.

    The newer Wars movies are like above average standard blockbusters, they have certainly lost their specialness as a franchise. But they are still telling decent stories.
    Turtletrekker likes this.
  14. Admiral2

    Admiral2 Admiral Admiral

    Sep 14, 2004
    It's amazing how quickly the youngsters jump at the chance to defend the crap. They're always so nice and motivated...
  15. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Admiral Admiral

    Nov 20, 2012
    Or they just disagree with you, also a possibility.
    NOVE9, Turtletrekker, YLu and 6 others like this.
  16. Takeru

    Takeru Space Police Premium Member

    Sep 6, 2007
    Germany, EU, Earth
    It's you getting old, sorry.:rommie:

    Every new Star Trek has been considered to be bad or "not Star Trek" since TOS season 3.

    TOS season 3? Awful, the only real Star Trek are seasons 1 and 2
    TAS? Stupid kids show
    TMP? Boring af
    TWOK+? Too militaristic
    TNG? Stupid wannabe pretend Star Trek
    DS9? Booooring, doesn't go anywhere
    VOY? Goes too far away. Terrorists as part of the crew, ditching all established species? FUUUUUCK
    ENT? Too advanced for a prequel, also boring af
    TNG movies? Too much focus on action Picard and Data
    JJ Trek? Recasting, apple store look ... ugh
    DSC? Wrong klingons, wrong uniforms, no round nacelles. Canon not respecting hack writers.
    PIC? Federation values destroyed FOREVER. Star Trek is now ruined.

    Upcoming shows:

    Section 31? Waaaahh, bad idea
    Animated adult comedy? Waaaahh, bad idea
    Animated kids show? Waaaahh, bad idea

    It's pretty much the same with Doctor Who and Star Wars, everything new always sucks. And don't bring up The Clone Wars, when it started people definitely didn't love it. I specifically remember comments about the cheap ass cgi ruining everything.

    You only get called that when you complain about a severe lack of straight, white, male, cisgender characters as if that's an actual problem.
    NOVE9, Turtletrekker, HotRod and 10 others like this.
  17. Aragorn

    Aragorn Admiral Admiral

    Dec 30, 2002
    Now that serialized storytelling and binging are in for TV, a lot of shows these days fail to deliver a satisfactory episode that can stand on its own.

    For movies, the bigger the budget, the more chefs there are in the kitchen trying to manage everything.
  18. Jinn

    Jinn Mistress of the Chaotic Energies Rear Admiral

    Dec 22, 2015
    How do you know they're youngsters? No one in this thread displays their age.
    Turtletrekker, YLu, BillJ and 4 others like this.
  19. Awesome Possum

    Awesome Possum Take it sleazy Moderator

    Mar 13, 2001
    The Good Place
    It’s not an issue of age. You just want to dismiss the opinions of others because they don’t agree with you. You can’t imagine that they actually like it and get something out of it that you can’t. There must be some reason, but the reality is that you just don’t like it. There’s no reason, no one is wrong and no one is right when it comes to liking it. Some people like Coke and others like Pepsi, so go find something you do like and maybe we can talk about that instead of screaming our opinions as if they’re objective fact.
    YLu, Nyotarules, fireproof78 and 3 others like this.
  20. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Jul 23, 2001
    Current Star Trek, Disco's rough around the edges, though its second season showed improvement, and Picard's knocking it out of the park.
    Current Doctor Who, the last two seasons could have been better, story wise, but Whittaker herself is great as the Doctor, and the companions are great characters themselves.
    Current Star Wars, Rise of Skywalker was a pretty bad movie, and the Resistance animated series was rather mediocre. Otherwise, the rest of this franchise is still going strong.

    But if you find your three favourite franchises just aren't cutting it anymore, expand your horizons, seek out new series to entertain yourself. Quality is still out there. Sometimes you need to search for it, but there are plenty of avenues available for one to find entertainment in the modern world.