A decline in quality in everything or am I just getting old??

[Butters]

It’s not a decline in quality, it’s just that our tastes change over time but we cling on to the things that gave us the fuzziest feelings. I loved Trek in my early teens, but by my mid to later teens I could see that some of it was a bit naff.

That didn’t stop me loving it though, and hoping each new version would be as awesome as I remembered the earlier stuff being. Problem is that it wasn’t ever really that good at all, it just spoke to us at the time in a way that it never will again, because we change.

The new series are being made for new audiences, and this is their cool, their first time, and it speaks to the new viewers as it did to us way back.

Discovery is ok, it doesn’t fire the juices, but thats ok, it’s the way I view tv that’s changed, not the quality. As for Picard though, I’m loving that. It’s a different beast to Discovery, TNG, or anything else in the franchise. It’s a love letter to the fans of my generation, and every name drop, character appearance, and nostalgic reference is a tiny exquisite portion of joy. The final revelation can’t disappoint. Unlike the red angel, it doesn’t matter how it’s resolved, I just want to see what turns up next, and be reminded of how enjoyed watching it all the first time around.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

You're right on all counts, and it is not just you getting old. Old franchises keep getting turned over to young creators who you couldn't have paid to watch what came before, and in their drive to remake the material into what they think is more modern and relevant to today's audiences what usually gets thrown out first is everything that made the old stuff worth watching.

True enough.

The problem is rather easy to see: of the three franchises the OP mentioned, none are believed to be producing landmark and/or classic material in their current forms; Doctor Who (NuWho) became a whining soap opera in several stories running through every Doctor from Tennant-forward (making Ecclestone's brief run seem like some alternate universe creation, or a mistake which had to be "corrected" ). Star Trek? I have to laugh. As much as those who are behind the franchise today try with one horrible revision after another, they will never erase, marginalize or surpass the appeal, cultural status & impact of a series over a half-century old. JJ's hollow films could not, Discovery created more rancor than fandom, and Picard is still trying to find a reason to exist.

Star Wars also suffers from being controlled by those wanting to put their revisionist stamp on the franchise, and the results have left the film franchise as anything but the popular culture hallmark the OT was when its last film left theatres in 1983. Solo: no one wanted to see it and the rest is history--a 50 car pile-up of a film that had to dig up the second most overused (originally a single-purpose) SW villain after Fett. Rouge One: what part of the fanbase or general audience asked for that? The crawl of ANH was quite succinct in telling everyone what they had to know about a superweapon, rebels stealing the plans for said superweapon, and the state of the galaxy, so Rogue One came off like fanstroking x 1000 with cartoon Tarkin, cartoon Leia, ANH cantina villains who--in no surprise--act exactly the same as seen in ANH, because, you know, the audience just loves seeing films mooch off the legacy of a great film, and they're not "doing that Star Wars Thang" if they're not repeating behavior from the film that introduced them.

No matter what certain producers or studios want, the longer a franchise keeps squeezing out product that moves away from the very elements, creator intent and heart that made it important and/or successful in the first place, the more the OP--and innumerable fans--will be able to make that kind of statement.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I love the 60s classic rock music but would hold The National, Flaming Lips, St Vincent, Kendrick Lamar, LCD Soundsystem, Sleater-Kinney every bit as high.

I guess the difference is there was non garbage stuff on the radio.

I would disagree Discovery created more rancor than fandom. It’s sure divisive but I have family members who aren’t Trekkies who watched and enjoyed it.

And I would make the opposite criticism for the latest Star Wars films. They didn’t revise anything, they colored so much within the lines they feel like member berries. They followed so close to the template of the originals they don’t add anything new of their own.

 

[Saul]

I'm willing to accept this is just me getting old, and I'm just not "with it" anymore, is that the case or is what I am saying true?

I want to say that Nostalgia has betrayed us but only in our hubris to think that Disney wants to attract the late 30s to 90s crowd and not the 2 years and up crowd.

We are "with it" still, but we are with Luke Skywalker, James Kirk (prime), past incarnations of 'The Doctor' while a whole other generation is encountering those franchises under the names of Rey *****, Michael Burnham and the 13th Doctor and it's their first time with those things. In 50 years time what are those fans thinking? In some ways it's frustrating but in other ways I can be smug with a knowing look on my face when the young-uns say things like "What happens to cute little Anakin Skywalker?" "What happened to Picard with the Borg?". We are the grand wizards of geek knowledge now.

Honestly do I think what we got now is better? Honestly no, but that's my opinion. I'm glad that I can still talk about it though. I'm glad I can still be excited about things I liked when I was younger.

 

[Noname Given]

So my three main TV/Movie loves.

Star Trek
Star Wars
Doctor Who

just seem to have had a severe decline in quality in the last decade. As in the writers just don't seem to "get it" or in the case of Doctor Who since Matt Smith left the stories have just gotten worse (with a couple of exceptions).

I'm willing to accept this is just me getting old, and I'm just not "with it" anymore, is that the case or is what I am saying true?

For this 57 year old TOS fan, for me the 'decline in quality' started with TNG in 1987...ergo, yes, it's just that you're getting old; and don't like change...for me, been there (still there on occasion too); and done that.

Also, personally, I LOVED both the JJ Abrams film series and ST: D because hey, at least we were back in the BEST time for Star Trek - The 23rd century. Don't know if I'll care for ST: D in Season 3 and the 31st century, but we'll see. Haven't been all that enthused with STP as its back to an era I found was too Utopian..although so far, I've found it more palatable then TNG. YMMV plus I'm old too...

 

[Owain Taggart]

I don't think it's so much that things have decreased in quality, but that our expectations have increased, creating a gulf that most certainly can't be met. I mean, take Star Wars for instance. It's a beloved franchise that come with a certain expectations based on its long history, which we at least expect to be on the same level to what came before, use that as building blocks and build upon it. But it's frankly disappointing when it can't even hit the minor bar and doesn't really build up at all.

Just meaning it's not like a newish thing. A lot of the criticims you hear of things today were all probably around "back then" (whenever that was for you) but you either didn't notice, didn't care or don't remember. People always moan, always have always will.

I think it's a good thing to keep in mind, that there are a lot more movies out there now than there was back then. More multiplexes to fill, etc, and more of what I feel is frequency. Sure, sequels aren't a new thing, but with more movies being produced, it seems like they keep returning to the well more frequently, with more sequels (often to movies we've never thought would get one), or reboots, and so yeah, we tend to notice it more.

 

[Awesome Possum]

I want to say that Nostalgia has betrayed us but only in our hubris to think that Disney wants to attract the late 30s to 90s crowd and not the 2 years and up crowd.

We are "with it" still, but we are with Luke Skywalker, James Kirk (prime), past incarnations of 'The Doctor' while a whole other generation is encountering those franchises under the names of Rey *****, Michael Burnham and the 13th Doctor and it's their first time with those things. In 50 years time what are those fans thinking? In some ways it's frustrating but in other ways I can be smug with a knowing look on my face when the young-uns say things like "What happens to cute little Anakin Skywalker?" "What happened to Picard with the Borg?". We are the grand wizards of geek knowledge now.

Honestly do I think what we got now is better? Honestly no, but that's my opinion. I'm glad that I can still talk about it though. I'm glad I can still be excited about things I liked when I was younger.

They have the internet, it's not like they can't find it and watch it themselves. Really what we can do is guide them towards stuff they may not encounter otherwise. That's how I got my nephew into Doctor Who. He loves the 13th, but his favorite was 12 because that was the first Doctor he saw.

For this 57 year old TOS fan, for me the 'decline in quality' started with TNG in 1987...ergo, yes, it's just that you're getting old; and don't like change...for me, been there (still there on occasion too); and done that.

Also, personally, I LOVED both the JJ Abrams film series and ST: D because hey, at least we were back in the BEST time for Star Trek - The 23rd century. Don't know if I'll care for ST: D in Season 3 and the 31st century, but we'll see. Haven't been all that enthused with STP as its back to an era I found was too Utopian..although so far, I've found it more palatable then TNG. YMMV plus I'm old too...

My dad was in his 60s and and grew up watching TOS and he loved the JJ films. I took him to the first two and he unfortunately didn't live to see the third or the new shows. I think he would have loved to see the second season of Discovery because he was always fascinated by Pike and wanted to know more about him, something the JJ films did.

 

[fireproof78]

I genuinely think expectations are built upon that desire for that thrill we had when we were young. And that's just not possible to connect in the exact same way.

I love going to films with my dad because he just gets in to it. It doesn't matter the expectations-he just wants to enjoy the experience. And that's what I think is important in managing expectations. It's not "Can this duplicate my feeling from way back?" but "What is the journey trying to take me on?"

There's a gulf of difference between those two expectations.

 

[Masiral]

Older people also seem to forget that there was a lot of crap in the 70s and 80s. You tend to remember only the good things, and then eventually think that's all there was. Many things today are lame, but so was most of the stuff back from those "halcyon days" that never really existed.

Saturday Night Live is a great example of this. Watch a full episode from the early seasons, and you'll find a lot of crap. But the "Best of..." specials have been carefully curated to ignore all that, so people just remember the very best sketches from those days.

 

[Awesome Possum]

Saturday Night Live is a great example of this. Watch a full episode from the early seasons, and you'll find a lot of crap. But the "Best of..." specials have been carefully curated to ignore all that, so people just remember the very best sketches from those days.

The entire run of SNL can be summed up at a lot of shit and a few great skits.

 

[HugeLobes]

I'm willing to accept this is just me getting old, and I'm just not "with it" anymore

Maybe they changed what 'it' was, and now what's 'it' seems weird and scary to you?

 

[BillJ]

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[Nyotarules]

So my three main TV/Movie loves.

Star Trek
Star Wars
Doctor Who

just seem to have had a severe decline in quality in the last decade. As in the writers just don't seem to "get it" or in the case of Doctor Who since Matt Smith left the stories have just gotten worse (with a couple of exceptions).

I'm willing to accept this is just me getting old, and I'm just not "with it" anymore, is that the case or is what I am saying true?

You are getting old and drinking the kool aid called nostalgia. Anyway its a known fact, Dr Who declined once Tom Baker left.

 

[The Wormhole]

Thing is I'm only 37, I really wasn't expecting to be "old" yet.

I'm 35. For the past six years I've been the old fart who can't like modern popular music. That's a bit of an exaggeration, there is the odd tune here and there that I end up enjoying, but ever since 2014 good songs have been a rarity for me. The weird part about that is 2013 had a lot of new songs that I loved, but then 2014 hit and most of them suck, and it's been like that ever since.

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And that's the scene I always think of when it comes to modern music. Though, truth is, whatever it is that's happened between me and modern music can't be related entirely to age, since my uncle in his fifties is more in touch with the popular songs of today than I am. I didn't even know what Old Town Road was until he told me about it. A couple months ago.

 

[RandyS]

I want to say that Nostalgia has betrayed us but only in our hubris to think that Disney wants to attract the late 30s to 90s crowd and not the 2 years and up crowd.

We are "with it" still, but we are with Luke Skywalker, James Kirk (prime), past incarnations of 'The Doctor' while a whole other generation is encountering those franchises under the names of Rey *****, Michael Burnham and the 13th Doctor and it's their first time with those things. In 50 years time what are those fans thinking? In some ways it's frustrating but in other ways I can be smug with a knowing look on my face when the young-uns say things like "What happens to cute little Anakin Skywalker?" "What happened to Picard with the Borg?". We are the grand wizards of geek knowledge now.

Honestly do I think what we got now is better? Honestly no, but that's my opinion. I'm glad that I can still talk about it though. I'm glad I can still be excited about things I liked when I was younger.

Exactly. I know what I liked as a kid and I still like it. I don't understand why the younger folks think that's a wrong view to have.

 

[fireproof78]

Exactly. I know what I liked as a kid and I still like it. I don't understand why the younger folks think that's a wrong view to have.

Largely because I don't think it is an age thing. I think that is just a personality thing.

My dad is probably one of the most flexible people I know in terms of entertainment. Me, I am becoming a little bit more so as I get older but I'm definitely slow to change.

The only reason why I consider it "wrong" is when there are categorical dimissals of anything from a certain era.

 

[Jayson1]

That was the cutoff for you, others don’t see it the same way. You’re just getting older. Some sci-fi got dystopian and others didn’t. 9/11 did have a major impact on all media because our outlook changed drastically, it’s slowly started to slide back. A lot of sci-fi seems to be hopeful but as something we have to work for instead of it just being handed to us.

I'm not sure it was all because of 9/11. I think the freedom that cable tv allowed that you to do stuff you couldn't do on network tv was a big reason and especially one show in particular and that was The Sopranos. I feel that was pretty much the landscape until Trump got and then people felt the need to be political much like lots of late 60's stuff when you had Nixon and Watergate and Vietnam going on.

Another thing I have noticed is the roles of tv and movies have sort of switched. In the 90's you had the rise of edgy and interesting independent stuff. Everything from Clerks to the great movie year of 1999. Tv was still mostly defined by network offering and while they were better than most of stuff we got in the 80's that changed after The Sopranos. Meanwhile the movies then became dominated by the comic genre and for awhile in the early 90's the edgy comedy movies. I'm really curios to see what trend happens next. Like I said lots of the stuff we have seen since Trump has won has become oversaturated and filled with a lot of sameness so I am guessing a new trend will happen but not sure what it will be. I do know with what is happening now to expect end of the world stuff to keep going strong and killer diseases is going to become a thorn to the good guys in many movies and tv shows in few years from now.


Jason

 

[diankra]

It's fairly simple. As I was 10 in the late 70s, Doctor Who is never going to be as good as it was a few years ago, Galactica is that new rubbish which couldn't possibly be remade better, Blake's 7 and Star Wars are the good new stuff. And Star Trek? Ok, but they must have shown every episode five times, as I've seen them all at least twice...

Side note, when I was editing a cult tv magazine, the boss asked why we were covering West Wing. I explained that we used to think we liked stuff about spaceships, but actually we liked good writing. He agreed.

 

[gblews]

Older people also seem to forget that there was a lot of crap in the 70s and 80s. You tend to remember only the good things, and then eventually think that's all there was. Many things today are lame, but so was most of the stuff back from those "halcyon days" that never really existed.

I mean, it's totally fine if your favorite shows and movies are from 50 years ago, no one says they can't be. But I feel it seems very foolish to try to say things have objectively gotten worse, and calling young people "stupid."

There were great things made in the past, and there are great things being made now. And future generations learn from what was made before and improve on things, in writing, directing, effects, acting, etc.

Just for the record, this is certainly not true of all older people. I’m pretty old and I believe that in general, TV shows have never been better than they are today. On the other hand, the OP, who is complaining about the current state of TV and movies, is only 37, which is young.

You should maybe check the stereotyping.

 

[The Lensman]

Exactly. I know what I liked as a kid and I still like it. I don't understand why the younger folks think that's a wrong view to have.

Because they're not required to think the stuff we grew up on was all that great?