Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 1x09 - "Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 1"

[Yistaan]

So the crew is now friendly and jokey with Agnes after she murdered a man in cold blood? What? Have they forgiven her or something? Why aren't they keeping her in the brig?

I've watched every single episode of every single show and I've never seen anyone act so warmly towards a murderer in any of the other shows. Even Lon Suder wasn't treated all that warmly.

The Picard crew forgave her awfully quickly.

It's even more jarring when the show is framed as if we're supposed to cheer on Agnes and Rios' "relationship" and we're supposed to boo and hiss when Narek is on the screen. Yet Narek to date has not actually killed anyone, and even though he tried it's very likely he was subjected to the same Zhat Vash mind meld Agnes was (possibly multiple times), and he definitely was indoctrinated into their ideology all his life.

So much for equality.

 

[cooleddie74]

Dukat did infinitely worse than Jurati when it came to harming other people and Dukat has a following that thinks the character wasn't really evil. I'd say Agnes Jurati is faring pretty well for a supporting character in a Trek series who kills someone and then seeks to be forgiven of their crime.

 

[The Rock]

Sorry, I was reminded of Spock's comment after Rand was almost raped by Kirk's evil side. So funny.

ETA: Or how quickly Garak and Dukat were worked with by the DS9 crew.

Great point about Garak and Dukat, lol. But in Dukat's case it seemed as if they never really liked him but were just simply cordial with him.

 

[fireproof78]

Dukat did infinitely worse than Jurati when it came to harming other people and Dukat has a following that thinks the character wasn't really evil. I'd say Agnes Jurati is faring pretty well for a supporting character in a Trek series who kills someone and then seeks to be forgiven of their crime.

Yes, no kidding. It amazes me that pushback when Trek has had villains turned good guys before.

Great point about Garak and Dukat, lol. But in Dukat's case it seemed as if they never really liked him but were just simply cordial with him.

Garak manipulated Sisko in to murdering a Romulan senator.

 

[Yistaan]

Dukat did infinitely worse than Jurati when it came to harming other people and Dukat has a following that thinks the character wasn't really evil. I'd say Agnes Jurati is faring pretty well for a supporting character in a Trek series who kills someone and then seeks to be forgiven of their crime.

A following that the production can't control is different from how the show is framed by directors/writers though. Dukat was always depicted as a Bad Guy (TM), complete with basically sending him to a pit of fire in the series finale.

 

[The Rock]

Dukat did infinitely worse than Jurati when it came to harming other people and Dukat has a following that thinks the character wasn't really evil. I'd say Agnes Jurati is faring pretty well for a supporting character in a Trek series who kills someone and then seeks to be forgiven of their crime.

There are people who actually think that Dukat wasn't really evil? Really? Are they those same people who think the Empire wasn't really evil in Star Wars?

 

[cooleddie74]

What baffles me is that Dukat is seen as NOT evil by any fan but hey, IDIC and all that I suppose.

 

[MrPointy]

I think the difference is that Dukat had diplomatic immunity. And Lon Suder was played by Brad Dourif.

 

[cooleddie74]

There are people who actually think that Dukat wasn't really evil? Really? Are they those same people who think the Empire wasn't really evil in Star Wars?

They've been out there. According to a Steve Shires video on Gul Dukat there are fans who called "Waltz(DS9)" character assassination.

 

[Cyrus]

I was underwhelmed by this episode on initial viewing. Just watched it a second time and liked it a lot better. Can't wait for the season finale.

Isa Briones does a great acting job of making Dahj, Soji and Sutra very distinct and different characters.

Love it when Rios speaks Spanish. My previous favorite was him calling Picard Jefe. But this week's Puta Madre is the new favorite.

I expect Narek to turn good next episode and maybe join the La Sirena crew.

I am disappointed by lack of mention of Data's neurons. They made a big deal about it in the first episode, indicating all the new androids are made from Data's neurons. I thought that was one of the reasons Picard was looking for Maddox, to ask him where he got the neurons from. But when he had the chance he didn't ask Maddox. And now he doesn't ask Soong either. WTF? Maybe Soong got them from his dad.

 

[The Rock]

They've been out there. According to a Steve Shires video on Gul Dukat there are fans who called "Waltz(DS9)" character assassination.

These people are clearly psychopaths!

 

[Yistaan]

There are people who actually think that Dukat wasn't really evil? Really? Are they those same people who think the Empire wasn't really evil in Star Wars?

As a longtime hardcore Star Wars fan, I can confirm those people do exist. Specifically among fans of the novel/cartoon character Grand Admiral Thrawn.

 

[Dale Sams]

Yes, no kidding. It amazes me that pushback when Trek has had villains turned good guys before.

Garak manipulated Sisko in to murdering a Romulan senator.

Hey look at my avatar! I love Damar!!

 

[Tim Thomason]

She said she's sorry, guys. Plus it happened so long ago. I think maybe two days have passed.

 

[Dale Sams]

I was underwhelmed by this episode on initial viewing. Just watched it a second time and liked it a lot better. Can't wait for the season finale.

Isa Briones does a great acting job of making Dahj, Soji and Sutra very distinct and different characters.

Love it when Rios speaks Spanish. My previous favorite was him calling Picard Jefe. But this week's Puta Madre is the new favorite.

I expect Narek to turn good next episode and maybe join the La Sirena crew.

I am disappointed by lack of mention of Data's neurons. They made a big deal about it in the first episode, indicating all the new androids are made from Data's neurons. I thought that was one of the reasons Picard was looking for Maddox, to ask him where he got the neurons from. But when he had the chance he didn't ask Maddox. And now he doesn't ask Soong either. WTF? Maybe Soong got them from his dad.

Structurally it sure seems late in the game to throw us curveballs but they went so far out of their way to make Sutra EVILLLLLLL im speculating:

AI Soong made androids with neurons from Lore. Maddux fled with HIS work neurons from Data, the two girls.

Sutra 'lobotomized' Soong. (Hence Soong just being so off...'shame on you Agnes!'.)

Its the only thing that makes sense to me. Even comic-book Magneto would balk at wiping out trillions of life-froms to save his people. But thats right up Lore's alley.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Lots to unpack.

Holy fuck the Borg Cube crashed. The aftermath visual is very

Spoiler: The Rise of Skywalker

Death-Star-in-Rise-of-the-Skywalker.

So... Data and Lore are twins perhaps really from this world, and nowhere near as unique as originally thought? Did they just totally recontextualize the backstory of one of Trek's most iconic characters? Or was this colony set up after Data and Lore were made on Omicron Theta?

Noonien Soong had a human son, who of course looks like Brent Spiner. Let's all take a moment and be glad he isn't playing Soji and every other synth too.

Perhaps Lal didn't survive because they all have to be twins? But then how did Data's android mother live?

That admonishon sounds very, very bad for organic life.

Seeing the synths a mix of human skin tones and movie-era-Data-like gold is surreal. Especially the one that looks like Soji.

No way would stabbing a synth in the eye kill them??

Can't wait for the finale.

 

[cooleddie74]

It suddenly makes sense to me, too.

Damn. I don't know if that's laughably predictable or brilliant. Or a little of both?

 

[Yistaan]

Structurally it sure seems late in the game to throw us curveballs but they went so far out of their way to make Sutra EVILLLLLLL im speculating:

AI Soong made androids with neurons from Lore. Maddux fled with HIS work neurons from Data, the two girls.

Sutra 'lobotomized' Soong. (Hence Soong just being so off...'shame on you Agnes!'.)

Its the only thing that makes sense to me. Even comic-book Magneto would balk at wiping out trillions of life-froms to save his people. But thats right up Lore's alley.

Well there was that time Magneto tried to blow up the nation of Santo Marco in Uncanny X-Men #4 back in 1964 for no reason other than to stop the X-Men following him (Yep I'm a hardcore X-Men fan who read a bunch of the old issues )

I think Altan Inigo Soong is just outright Lore. In fact, the whole bit about an android, memories and all, being recreated from a single "positronic neuron" has really had no payoff at all and would only be meaningful if Data were resurrected in that body Altan Soong is building.

 

[Lord Garth]

They've been out there. According to a Steve Shires video on Gul Dukat there are fans who called "Waltz(DS9)" character assassination.

I can back that up as I was posting on bulletin boards at the time. There were people who, from that point on, talked about how much they liked Pre-"Waltz" Dukat better than Post-"Waltz" Dukat. I can't really say I disagree with them.

 

[fireproof78]

There are people who actually think that Dukat wasn't really evil? Really? Are they those same people who think the Empire wasn't really evil in Star Wars?

Empire did nothing wrong is not just a slogan.