Did Sisko kill a turkey?

[Nakita Akita]

All of MacDonald’s meat is from cattle slaughtered in facilities that follow guidelines set up by Temple Grandin. Not perfect, but way better than it used to be.
What needs to change is how we feed and finish cattle. Cattle aren’t meant to eat grain—they can and should be fed only forage.

Temple Gradin/McDonalds, you make it sound like something other than what I mentioned above.
They feed them grains at the feed lots. The feed lots are specifically designed to fatten the cattle. Otherwise a lot of cattle are out grazing for at least part of their short sad lives.
Most steer are butchered at about 18 months-2 years of age.
Nice, isn't it?
Makes me hungry.

 

[mlbach]

I’m saying get rid of the feed lots.
Range raised cattle have decent lives. They live on lush pastures, mamas get to stay with their babies. Get rid of the feed lots and it’s a good, humane system.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I’m sure Sisko used free range turkey.

 

[The Wormhole]

It is an interesting question, though. From Lonely Among us:


The "enslave animals for food purposes" probably would mean that any animal product would be replicated in order for this statement to be true, unless it actually came from an animal living in the wild, or outside of the Federation. That would also include stuff like milk, eggs, etc. So, for example, what is the exact origin of those "Owon eggs" Riker procured at Starbase 73 in Time Squared?

But then there's O'Brien's mother. According to TNG The Wounded:

KEIKO: What kind of foods?
O'BRIEN: Scalloped potatoes, mutton shanks, oxtails and cabbage.
KEIKO: Kind of heavy.
O'BRIEN: Oh, you'll love it, I promise. I can still remember the aromas when my mother was cooking.
KEIKO: She cooked?
O'BRIEN: She didn't believe in a replicator. She thought real food was more nutritious.
KEIKO: She handled real meat? She touched it and cut it?
O'BRIEN: Yeah, like a master chef. She was fantastic.

I guess Mama O'Brien kept and slaughtered voluntary animals? Like the meal of the day from Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy?

 

[kkt]

My guess most people replicate their meats most of the time, but there's still a small number of game animals and fowl raised for food, and they are raised humanely. Some people get the real thing for some special occasions, and probably only a few get them all the time.

 

[Nakita Akita]

My guess most people replicate their meats most of the time, but there's still a small number of game animals and fowl raised for food, and they are raised humanely. Some people get the real thing for some special occasions, and probably only a few get them all the time.

I can't really think that killing and eating a living creature is humane.
Possibly going to Quonos and hunting a wild targ and catching and killing it with your bare hands would be the most humane thing.
A captivity raised animal, which is to be killed for good, never humane.
The thought is utterly ridiculous.

 

[at Quark's]

I guess Mama O'Brien kept and slaughtered voluntary animals? Like the meal of the day from Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy?

Let's see if we can reconcile the two statements .... eurm ...., O' Brien never explicitly says his mother handled real meat of animals, did he (Would also mean someone else introduced him to (replicated) lamb shanks and oxtails ....)

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Yes, the Sisko used real turkey. From DS9 "Blaze of Glory" [http://www.chakoteya.net/DS9/521.htm]:

EDDINGTON: Replicator entrée number one oh three. Curried chicken and rice with a side order of carrots. Or at least that's what they want us to believe. But you and I both know what we're really eating. Replicated protein molecules and textured carbohydrates.
SISKO: It's not that bad.
EDDINGTON: It may look like chicken, but it still tastes like replicated protein molecules to me.
SISKO: If you don't want it, don't eat it.
EDDINGTON: Remember that Thanksgiving dinner you cooked for the senior staff last year? How many months did it take you to grow all those vegetables in the hydroponic garden? Every ingredient fresh, real. Though you did put too much tarragon in the stuffing.
SISKO: I wasn't aware that you were a food critic.
EDDINGTON: I wasn't, until I joined the Maquis and started eating real food. Food that I'd grown with my own hands. Fresh corn, sweet as a baby's smile. And tomatoes. Do you know how hard it is to grow tomatoes? There's always too much rain or not enough. It's too hot, it's too cold. I wonder what happened to those tomato plants? Probably burned to the ground along with everything else.​

The Thanksgiving dinner is presented as having all real ingredients as opposed to the replicated meat and vegetables of replicator entrée #103.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Just say that when someone wants real meat as opposed to the replicated variety, they go with vat grown cloned meat. No "enslaving animals" in captivity, no replication, and 100% real meat.

 

[at Quark's]

Just say that when someone wants real meat as opposed to the replicated variety, they go with vat grown cloned meat. No "enslaving animals" in captivity, no replication, and 100% real meat.

But would vat grown cloned meat produce "shanks" and "tails"?'Or would these terms in the 24th century just mean "meat very similar to the meat of oxtails of earlier centuries", etc.

We do see 7 of 9 sink her teeth in what appears to be real meat when she raids the food store as a Klingon (Infinite Regress). Why store it if it would be replicated? Just replicate it at the very moment you need it. So assuming that's authentic meat. Then again, Voyager gets a pass in my opinion as they were an isolated ship in exceptional circumstances and had to rely on other means than just replicating food, too.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

But would vat grown cloned meat produce "shanks" and "tails"?'Or would these terms in the 24th century just mean "meat very similar to the meat of oxtails of earlier centuries", etc.

Yes, if you removed cells from those portions of the source animal's body and grew them in vitro. I would imagine you could also grow the bone for flavor if you chose to do so.

 

[Nakita Akita]

Yes, the Sisko used real turkey. From DS9 "Blaze of Glory" [http://www.chakoteya.net/DS9/521.htm]:

EDDINGTON: Replicator entrée number one oh three. Curried chicken and rice with a side order of carrots. Or at least that's what they want us to believe. But you and I both know what we're really eating. Replicated protein molecules and textured carbohydrates.
SISKO: It's not that bad.
EDDINGTON: It may look like chicken, but it still tastes like replicated protein molecules to me.
SISKO: If you don't want it, don't eat it.
EDDINGTON: Remember that Thanksgiving dinner you cooked for the senior staff last year? How many months did it take you to grow all those vegetables in the hydroponic garden? Every ingredient fresh, real. Though you did put too much tarragon in the stuffing.
SISKO: I wasn't aware that you were a food critic.
EDDINGTON: I wasn't, until I joined the Maquis and started eating real food. Food that I'd grown with my own hands. Fresh corn, sweet as a baby's smile. And tomatoes. Do you know how hard it is to grow tomatoes? There's always too much rain or not enough. It's too hot, it's too cold. I wonder what happened to those tomato plants? Probably burned to the ground along with everything else.​

The Thanksgiving dinner is presented as having all real ingredients as opposed to the replicated meat and vegetables of replicator entrée #103.

But people and Eddington don't/didn't say "raised" ones "grows" plants, one "raises" animals.
One TNG Picard served replicated turkey to Worf's brother.
It looked like a turkey that one serves for Thanksgiving. Picard sliced off a piece of breast meat in the show.
They stated that it was replicated.

 

[Nakita Akita]

But would vat grown cloned meat produce "shanks" and "tails"?'Or would these terms in the 24th century just mean "meat very similar to the meat of oxtails of earlier centuries", etc.

We do see 7 of 9 sink her teeth in what appears to be real meat when she raids the food store as a Klingon (Infinite Regress). Why store it if it would be replicated? Just replicate it at the very moment you need it. So assuming that's authentic meat. Then again, Voyager gets a pass in my opinion as they were an isolated ship in exceptional circumstances and had to rely on other means than just replicating food, too.

Well the guy that runs the mess hall is a chef. So possibly he is aging the meat, prepping for marinade. Etc.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

But people and Eddington don't/didn't say "raised" ones "grows" plants, one "raises" animals.

No one mentioned how Ben got the turkey at all. Eddington did say that every ingredient was fresh and real. So, QED, it was a real turkey. Plus, contrasting a replicated chicken and veggie meal with a real Thanksgiving dinner and professing how much better the real stuff was doesn't make sense unless it was all real.

That doesn't mean that the Sisko killed it.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

I can't really think that killing and eating a living creature is humane. Possibly going to Quonos and hunting a wild targ and catching and killing it with your bare hands would be the most humane thing. A captivity raised animal, which is to be killed for good, never humane.
The thought is utterly ridiculous.

I personally don't see the ethical or practical difference between your scenario and meat taken from animals raised in "true free range" conditions and slaughtered by hand rather than commercial factory breeding and slaughter which even most dedicated meat-eaters would agree needs to die a death as quickly as possible.

Just say that when someone wants real meat as opposed to the replicated variety, they go with vat grown cloned meat. No "enslaving animals" in captivity, no replication, and 100% real meat.

Another possible option, but IMO pretty much a "poor man's replicator" so largely pointless once the latter is available.

YMMV.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Another possible option, but IMO pretty much a "poor man's replicator" so largely pointless once the latter is available.

YMMV.

The premise here is that the characters can taste the difference. Ergo, it's not pointless, especially if it's an ethical alternative.

 

[Qonundrum]

Do you actually think that killing livestock isn't rather barbaric?
Are you fairly familiar with feed lots and slaughter houses?
Do you find the restraint and sale of live dogs in places like China and Korea barbaric?

Just curious.
Personally I find it hilarious when I see someone flying off the handle about people eating dogs, or cats, or horses or rabbits, but they are fine with stuffing a .99 cent hamberger down their maw.

*gasp*

You mean cats and dogs and especially those poor sweet bunnicorns are the meat in 99 cent hamburgers?!

 

[Nakita Akita]

I personally don't see the ethical or practical difference between your scenario and meat taken from animals raised in "true free range" conditions and slaughtered by hand rather than commercial factory breeding and slaughter which even most dedicated meat-eaters would agree needs to die a death as quickly as possible.



Another possible option, but IMO pretty much a "poor man's replicator" so largely pointless once the latter is available.

YMMV.

The difference is an animal that lives in the wild verses one that lives in a cage. (Or confined) prison is prison.

 

[Nakita Akita]

*gasp*

You mean cats and dogs and especially those poor sweet bunnicorns are the meat in 99 cent hamburgers?!

I don't even know what this is supposed to mean, there is no animal called a bunnicorn.

And in the USA a few years back they were using stuff called pink slime for a lot of institutional meat. In clouding schools.
It was pretty much the stuff that didn't empty out of the mixing vats. I used to work in a sausage factory.
No there is not dogs and cats in the hamburger meat in the USA.
People in various countries eat meat products that people in the west would not choose to eat, such as dog and cat and horses.
People in rich western countries get very angry because people are eating dogs for example.
But those same people are okay with eating cows.
It's pretty much the same thing.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

Easy. Sisko killed a turkey that owed Quark money. However he set up an elaborate plot that entailed Garak doing the deed. As he puts the turkey in the oven, Sisko turns to the fourth wall and says raises his turkey baster and says 'I can live with it'.