You see as far as ship and costume designs i see this as a transition from more cotemproary looking space craft to more Trek looking
Bad world building of Enterprise
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The Xindi War arc to me feels as an attempt to combine some of the best elements of both DS9 (story arc about a long conflict with several factions, internal politics) with some of VOY (Isolated ship in unknown territory, tension between 2 crews (in the case of ENT the original Starfleet crew vs the MACO's )).
However, where I mostly enjoyed the DS9 story arc, I found the ENT one too unrelentingly heavy. That could be because while I originally saw DS9 at a rate of one episode a week, I only saw ENT S3 years after it was released, and therefore in much more concentrated form (within 2 weeks or so). It could also be because DS9 had several "breathers" sprinkled in between (lighter episodes in which the war moved to the background), whereas I don't believe the ENT arc had many of those.
I disliked the Xindi War arc for precisely the same reason I disliked the Dominion War arc in DS9: I would have much preferred DS9 to have stuck with its initial premise of a crossroads in space. The whole Dominion War arc bored me. It also made me feel like everything DS9 did to distance itself from B5, and avoid giving any appearance of copying (or being copied by) JMS, was backfiring, and making the two "space station" series converge instead of diverging.
To me, the Xindi War arc just felt like a misstep, a diversion out of the path of telling the stories that led up to the Pike and TOS eras.
To me, the Xindi War arc just felt like a misstep, a diversion out of the path of telling the stories that led up to the Pike and TOS eras.
The problem was shoving in the Suliban and Xindi and Daniels in such a major way. We already had a rough outline of what happened a hundred years before TOS: There was a Earth-Romulan War, fought with 'primitive' ships with 'atomic' weapons, no one knew what Romulans looked like, it was costly, and then the Romulans lost and signed a treaty by sub-space radio. Then the Federation was founded a bit after. I'm fine with it being 2161, and the war 2156-2160~, but...
We already know Andorians, Vulcans, Tellarites were close to Earth: they're our neighbors. We might shove in the Orions in there, and if the rights were ever hacked out, the Kzin. That's enough, really. The Suliban, the Xindi, even the Klingons, take away from the show. To say nothing of forcing in the Ferengi and Borg.
Here's how I would had done ENT: basically fanfic below, so I spoiled it.
We already know Andorians, Vulcans, Tellarites were close to Earth: they're our neighbors. We might shove in the Orions in there, and if the rights were ever hacked out, the Kzin. That's enough, really. The Suliban, the Xindi, even the Klingons, take away from the show. To say nothing of forcing in the Ferengi and Borg.
Here's how I would had done ENT: basically fanfic below, so I spoiled it.
United Earth has hacked out a state for itself. The Solar System is theirs, so is Alpha Centauri, maybe Bernards and Wolf 359, the latter two dead outpost systems while Humanity is working their butts off terraforming every rock it can (explains why Alpha C might not had been 'claimed' beforehand).
Andor and Vulcan are still going at it, while Tellar is pursuing a neutrality status. Earth has fought a few 'wars' with marauders/junk species (alluding to the Kzin wars in TAS), and has had to look out for itself more and more as Vulcan focuses on Andor. Thus how there's a UESN, UESPA, 'Starfleet', with traditions and inertia. Not the neutered weird assemblage seen in Canon where United Earth is a mere 30ish years old and Starfleet is, as well. Right as the Vulcans landed, the United Nations got together and reformed in twenty years, rebuilt, boom. United (Nations?) of Earth by 2083, 2090. Orion freebooters/privateers are the most major concern now, sniping at UE convoys and trade (maybe the UE is exporting antimatter and minerals from their red-star systems?).
The crisis is that Andor, which Earth barely knows, is in a cold war with Vulcan - up to monthly 'incidents'. The Enterprise? (Do we have to call it Enterprise? I mean, I guess, maybe the show should had been titled something else) is launched as the first Warp-5 'do-it-all Cruiser', as a testbed for a new doctrine in the UESN. I would have it be a sexy Daedalus or something akin to it, not the Akiraprise we got. It's a risky investment: before, ships were specialized, so you had monitors, escorts, 'destroyers', transports, diplomatic ships, cargo ships, scientific surveyors, but the Enterprise will combine most of those roles. It's also a deterrent against the warlike Andorians, as it's the best we got.
So the underlaying conflict is how Earth manages the local political crisis. Andor and Vulcan will be shooting at each other but neither has the stomach for a full blown war, and Earth will come along with the Enterprise and Archer and smooth things out when they can, coming from a more detached viewpoint. This may last two, three seasons, sprinkled in with the UESN smacking down pirates, rogue colonies, exploring, finding a lot of wrecks from the WW3-2090 era where nations and people sent ships which way, and developing a tie with Tellar, maybe nudging them on some issues and likewise. I'm fine with the Vulcan subplot that they've 'lost their way' and Archer and T'pol can help with that, and the like.
Season 3 is when the Romulans start to come into play. (maybe the show starts in 2154 than 2151?) They're unknown, their ships are efficient and sleek, they have the advantage of surprise. Start out with a 'destroyed colony' arc, maybe even a nice little Proto-Federation experiment colony wiped out on the far frontier. Here, we can be a bit creative, especially if space in the future will be 'claimed' by Romulans and not regained, so species can come and go, since 'canonically' they'll be under the Romulan Wing or flee off to new space or become minor members later. They're also good at subterfuge and may try to reignite tensions, being basically Vulcans, they infiltrate and do rogue actions against everybody and the hot peace turns back into a cold war between everyone until Archer and Co. come to the conclusion that 'Vulcans have become double agents to some power who promises to undo what Archer and Co have done)', and it goes from there. (They don't have to be correct, remember).
The war...I don't know how you'll handle the war. DS9 will be fresh, and honestly, a war story by itself is just a report. Earth could lead Andor and Tellar and Vulcan, or might be alone and be 'targeted' by the RSE for its interloping. Andor and Tellar might be subverted and barely offer any help. Stuff like that. But if the war has to be shown, it has to focus more on a conflicted T'pol, because there's not going to be a lot of drama coming from Archer. (What, will Merryweather start a colonial/core divide as the 'colonies' take the brunt of it? Meh).
But yea. Fanficing over.
Andor and Vulcan are still going at it, while Tellar is pursuing a neutrality status. Earth has fought a few 'wars' with marauders/junk species (alluding to the Kzin wars in TAS), and has had to look out for itself more and more as Vulcan focuses on Andor. Thus how there's a UESN, UESPA, 'Starfleet', with traditions and inertia. Not the neutered weird assemblage seen in Canon where United Earth is a mere 30ish years old and Starfleet is, as well. Right as the Vulcans landed, the United Nations got together and reformed in twenty years, rebuilt, boom. United (Nations?) of Earth by 2083, 2090. Orion freebooters/privateers are the most major concern now, sniping at UE convoys and trade (maybe the UE is exporting antimatter and minerals from their red-star systems?).
The crisis is that Andor, which Earth barely knows, is in a cold war with Vulcan - up to monthly 'incidents'. The Enterprise? (Do we have to call it Enterprise? I mean, I guess, maybe the show should had been titled something else) is launched as the first Warp-5 'do-it-all Cruiser', as a testbed for a new doctrine in the UESN. I would have it be a sexy Daedalus or something akin to it, not the Akiraprise we got. It's a risky investment: before, ships were specialized, so you had monitors, escorts, 'destroyers', transports, diplomatic ships, cargo ships, scientific surveyors, but the Enterprise will combine most of those roles. It's also a deterrent against the warlike Andorians, as it's the best we got.
So the underlaying conflict is how Earth manages the local political crisis. Andor and Vulcan will be shooting at each other but neither has the stomach for a full blown war, and Earth will come along with the Enterprise and Archer and smooth things out when they can, coming from a more detached viewpoint. This may last two, three seasons, sprinkled in with the UESN smacking down pirates, rogue colonies, exploring, finding a lot of wrecks from the WW3-2090 era where nations and people sent ships which way, and developing a tie with Tellar, maybe nudging them on some issues and likewise. I'm fine with the Vulcan subplot that they've 'lost their way' and Archer and T'pol can help with that, and the like.
Season 3 is when the Romulans start to come into play. (maybe the show starts in 2154 than 2151?) They're unknown, their ships are efficient and sleek, they have the advantage of surprise. Start out with a 'destroyed colony' arc, maybe even a nice little Proto-Federation experiment colony wiped out on the far frontier. Here, we can be a bit creative, especially if space in the future will be 'claimed' by Romulans and not regained, so species can come and go, since 'canonically' they'll be under the Romulan Wing or flee off to new space or become minor members later. They're also good at subterfuge and may try to reignite tensions, being basically Vulcans, they infiltrate and do rogue actions against everybody and the hot peace turns back into a cold war between everyone until Archer and Co. come to the conclusion that 'Vulcans have become double agents to some power who promises to undo what Archer and Co have done)', and it goes from there. (They don't have to be correct, remember).
The war...I don't know how you'll handle the war. DS9 will be fresh, and honestly, a war story by itself is just a report. Earth could lead Andor and Tellar and Vulcan, or might be alone and be 'targeted' by the RSE for its interloping. Andor and Tellar might be subverted and barely offer any help. Stuff like that. But if the war has to be shown, it has to focus more on a conflicted T'pol, because there's not going to be a lot of drama coming from Archer. (What, will Merryweather start a colonial/core divide as the 'colonies' take the brunt of it? Meh).
But yea. Fanficing over.
Bonaventure. It could even bear a passing resemblance to the one from "Time Trap."
Yeef! This thing was breeding tags like they were tribbles!
That said, I didn't see anything wrong with the Suliban, or with the Temporal Cold War, or Daniels, or "Future Guy," or even with the Xindi (as long as a whole season wasn't wasted on a pointless war). (And "Imaus," feel free to un-like this post, if you disagree with the additions. I won't take offense.)
Nah it's alright. The name is a sure fit. The design, however...I feel like Saucer+Secondary Hull is a 23rd century, maybe late 22nd, design, while 21st would be 'spheres and cylinders mashed together'. I haven't found a way where the evolution of the Saucer+Secondary Hull fits, but going too far 'retro' takes away from both the backstory and limits the show.
Just like how the Klingons are implied to have been contacted c. 2200, and more in canon how the Cardassians were met 'sometime' in the 24th century, stuff should be left for other shows/fluff. Tying the design to one end of the spectrum defeats the purpose - it's a hundred years before TOS, and almost a hundred after FC....
Of course none of this will ever appear anywhere other than fanart if I ever get to it, but I don't think the NX should be too primitive (triangular/flattish in canon apparently, spheres/cubes/big buffy thing in fanon/secondary canon - but not too related to the Connie. The Daedalus feels top heavy in most aspects...I don't know. I think I have something....
Just like how the Klingons are implied to have been contacted c. 2200, and more in canon how the Cardassians were met 'sometime' in the 24th century, stuff should be left for other shows/fluff. Tying the design to one end of the spectrum defeats the purpose - it's a hundred years before TOS, and almost a hundred after FC....
Of course none of this will ever appear anywhere other than fanart if I ever get to it, but I don't think the NX should be too primitive (triangular/flattish in canon apparently, spheres/cubes/big buffy thing in fanon/secondary canon - but not too related to the Connie. The Daedalus feels top heavy in most aspects...I don't know. I think I have something....
When I consider how ENT approached extra-terrestrial species, they chose to introduce a bunch new species never heard of before (Denobulans, Suliban, Tandarans, Krestassans, Xyrillians, Triannon, etc) and didn’t really go anywhere major with them, not even as potential targets for the Xindi weapon in addition to Earth. And neglected other established species from TOS/TAS era that should have received more development i.e. Gorn, Tholians, Saurians, Rigellians, Coridians, Orions, Kzinti, Caitians, Endosians, Deltans.
I liked the Insectoid Xindi, Aquatics Xindi and the Kovalaans (“E2” and “Silent Enemy”), since they allowed for more non-humanoid alien species to be shown in the series. I don’t know if the other Xindi species were needed. And arguably, the antagonists for S3 should have been the Suliban, not the Xindi, since they had received some development from the first two seasons and could have made a satisfactory resolution to that particular arc.
They should has stuck to Romulans, and pirates (human, Rigellians, Orions and Nausican) and species that favoured genetic engineering (i.e Suliban) as antagonists. I don't think they needed to Klingons in this series, beyond maybe the series premiere.
ENT did handle the development of Andorians, Tellarites and Vulcans though very well. The development of Vulcan-Earth relations in particular is actually very good upon re-watching it unfold.
I liked the Insectoid Xindi, Aquatics Xindi and the Kovalaans (“E2” and “Silent Enemy”), since they allowed for more non-humanoid alien species to be shown in the series. I don’t know if the other Xindi species were needed. And arguably, the antagonists for S3 should have been the Suliban, not the Xindi, since they had received some development from the first two seasons and could have made a satisfactory resolution to that particular arc.
They should has stuck to Romulans, and pirates (human, Rigellians, Orions and Nausican) and species that favoured genetic engineering (i.e Suliban) as antagonists. I don't think they needed to Klingons in this series, beyond maybe the series premiere.
ENT did handle the development of Andorians, Tellarites and Vulcans though very well. The development of Vulcan-Earth relations in particular is actually very good upon re-watching it unfold.
What? ENT did more to develop Tholians than any other ST series, before or since.
Both of which happened during S4. Before, there was nothing significantly new learned about them.
The Andorian—Earth, Vulcan-Earth, and Andorian-Vulcan arcs developed quite nicely over four seasons and were highlights of the series.
The series could have touched upon the It’s Federation Day newsclipping that was in Generations and made it officially canon. But that would have meant a better finale at least.
The Andorian—Earth, Vulcan-Earth, and Andorian-Vulcan arcs developed quite nicely over four seasons and were highlights of the series.
The series could have touched upon the It’s Federation Day newsclipping that was in Generations and made it officially canon. But that would have meant a better finale at least.
Enterprise wasn’t a super ship, she was the strongest ship of Earth and the weakest ship of all factions. Enterprise forms the Federation because of the lack of history humans have, because of Archer making good first impressions.
Starfleet having been in space for years makes sense but what doesn’t makes sense is it’s form.
Earth’s nations have militaries as evidenced by the MACO’s but no space fleet. Starfleet is the only warp capable armed force yet is supposed to be a scientific organization which doesn’t leave the solar system. Starfleet should have been Earth’s military, and Enterprise should have been cooperatively designed by Starfleet and UESPA (Earths science organization) as Earth’s first serious interstellar deep space ship. The Vulcans would have warned Earth the importance of scientific discovery along with military capability when exploring space, which would encourage the mixed missions. It could be crewed by both organizations, with Starfleet and UESPA personnel having different cut uniforms, or no uniforms for the UESPA personnel. T’Pol is chosen due to her involvement advising UESPA and her history in the militaristic science fleet of Vulcan which makes her acceptable to Starfleet.
The most important change which could be made to Enterprise is to give the ship a mission. After the Klingon mission the Enterprise just wonders around space aimlessly bumping into one mystery after another. Instead they should always know what they’re heading toward thanks to the Vulcans and have a plan of what is most important to do. One of their first stops should probably be Vulcan to conduct a diplomatic tour of every major power, with scientific stops along the way. They should already have embassies but due to slow warp sleeper ships and slow subspace radio of the period not much is done diplomatically until now.
also everyone is right about the tech being too advanced.
Starfleet having been in space for years makes sense but what doesn’t makes sense is it’s form.
Earth’s nations have militaries as evidenced by the MACO’s but no space fleet. Starfleet is the only warp capable armed force yet is supposed to be a scientific organization which doesn’t leave the solar system. Starfleet should have been Earth’s military, and Enterprise should have been cooperatively designed by Starfleet and UESPA (Earths science organization) as Earth’s first serious interstellar deep space ship. The Vulcans would have warned Earth the importance of scientific discovery along with military capability when exploring space, which would encourage the mixed missions. It could be crewed by both organizations, with Starfleet and UESPA personnel having different cut uniforms, or no uniforms for the UESPA personnel. T’Pol is chosen due to her involvement advising UESPA and her history in the militaristic science fleet of Vulcan which makes her acceptable to Starfleet.
The most important change which could be made to Enterprise is to give the ship a mission. After the Klingon mission the Enterprise just wonders around space aimlessly bumping into one mystery after another. Instead they should always know what they’re heading toward thanks to the Vulcans and have a plan of what is most important to do. One of their first stops should probably be Vulcan to conduct a diplomatic tour of every major power, with scientific stops along the way. They should already have embassies but due to slow warp sleeper ships and slow subspace radio of the period not much is done diplomatically until now.
also everyone is right about the tech being too advanced.
I think the issue with the NX-01 is that its supposed to be a state-of-the-art ship by Earth standards, but is completely outclassed and outmatched by other ships they encounter. However, that never comes across to the viewers as they never touched upon the USS Enterprise XCV-330 – the only reference is a picture of it in the 632 Club - or the various DY classes, which all have registries tied to states even though there’s a United Earth world government in place a year before the NX-01 launched. They did mention Neptune class ships, but they never really made it clear how primitive previous ships were in comparison to the NX-01. Meanwhile, the viewers are expecting a primitive ship and it visually looks more advanced than a ship in the 24th century and no one knows why that is.
Considering that there was a reference in TNG (“The Measure Of A Man”) that all ships that bear the name Enterprise to be legendary – which is basically the only real confirmation of the NX-01 existing, although it is subtle – and the numerous references to the 22nd century across TNG, DS9 and VOY, there could have been better world building in regards to 22nd century Earth, and how the XCV-330 led to the development of the NX-01. Which may have happened if ENT stuck with the original idea of a portion of S1 being based on Earth for around six months.
Considering that there was a reference in TNG (“The Measure Of A Man”) that all ships that bear the name Enterprise to be legendary – which is basically the only real confirmation of the NX-01 existing, although it is subtle – and the numerous references to the 22nd century across TNG, DS9 and VOY, there could have been better world building in regards to 22nd century Earth, and how the XCV-330 led to the development of the NX-01. Which may have happened if ENT stuck with the original idea of a portion of S1 being based on Earth for around six months.
As for the difference in the tech shown and described in the Romulan War (See Balance of Terror)
Head canon says: Earth only had a few ships similar to NX-01, so to fight the war they just threw together whatever they could as quickly as they could. And if that was primitive ships with atomic weapons well there you go.
Head canon says: Earth only had a few ships similar to NX-01, so to fight the war they just threw together whatever they could as quickly as they could. And if that was primitive ships with atomic weapons well there you go.
I'm sorry, but I don't see any big problems with Enterprise enough for it to be retold the way you want it; besides, you could probably create your own universe just by changing a few words.
Well, ENT was originally supposed to feature the crew on Earth for six months before launch. Maybe the arrival of the Klingons and the Temporal Cold War caused them to launch six months early. Meaning everything between "Broken Bow and Shadows of P’Jem" wouldn’t have happened, at least the way that they did happen in the show.
If the ship launched in October 2151 instead of April 2151, then :
- the incident at P’ Jem wouldn’t have happened, at least not then.
- open hostilities between the Nausicaans and the Earth Cargo Service may have broken out if Archer and his crew had not intervened.
- They may not have made first contact with the Xyrillians (meaning Trip doesn't get pregnant) or met the D4 Klingon cruiser.
- First contact with the Valakians may have been different.
- Nor would they have encountered a Klingon scout ship sinking in a gas giant.
- They may not have ever crossed paths with the Ferengi either, if everything they did is pushed back six months.
- And a generally different S2. Maybe Archer doesn't have to deal with a Klingon tribunal due to the Xindi attack. Maybe resulting in S4 being when Archer make first contact with the Klingons.
May have made for a more interesting show. Definitely makes for a compelling ENT time travel episode, at least in theory.
As a person who watched it all when new.. Never quit. Enterprise was my favorite series, after Tng .. Shedload better than voyager..
But I do agree that they got lazy.. Didn't push the envelope, even rehashed old scripts.. They gave it to Manny cotto which was excellent.. But all y'all tunned out... I understand.. The execs were just riding the wave... And it finally crashed on the beach after so long.. Instead of paddling back out.. They were lazy.. So it ended.
But like I've said about voyager.. It was a great premise.. But handled medochre.. (Well better than voyager.. They shit the bed on that one.. Sorry to all that like it.. It mostly sucks)
But I do agree that they got lazy.. Didn't push the envelope, even rehashed old scripts.. They gave it to Manny cotto which was excellent.. But all y'all tunned out... I understand.. The execs were just riding the wave... And it finally crashed on the beach after so long.. Instead of paddling back out.. They were lazy.. So it ended.
But like I've said about voyager.. It was a great premise.. But handled medochre.. (Well better than voyager.. They shit the bed on that one.. Sorry to all that like it.. It mostly sucks)
My fix for the atomic weapons is Earth can only make a few photonic torpedoes, and could never arm every ship with them, but spacial charges are too weak to go back to. So, Starfleet comes up with atomic torpedoes which instead of using a 1:1 matter-antimatter warhead and warp sustainer augmented impulse, they use a 1,000,000,000:1 matter-antimatter fusion uranium shell warhead with an impulse augmented fusion torch engine. It's a lot larger and can't fire forward at warp, but it is far cheaper and just as powerful and survivable as a photonic torpedo.
Same for phase weapons, too expensive despite the advantages. They switch to cheaper man portable and ship mounted laser weapons.
Last but not least they need the cheapest hull they can build in the least amount of time, so they basically build a warp capable tin can which is the Daedalus. During the war its forward hull is flat and packed with shield emitters and weapons, while the bridge is in the engineering section.
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