Star Trek Picard is not Star Trek

[Thomas Elliot]

It always amuses me when the True Fans get on their soapbox with the line "this isn't Star Trek, it's generic science fiction." I guarantee, ask the vast majority of Joes and Janes on the Street what "generic science fiction" is they're almost certainly going to say Star Trek. Unless they say Star Wars. My point is, despite the True Fans' protestations to the contrary, according to fifty percent of Normies out there, Star Trek is generic science fiction.

That could be for a variety of reasons.
If some fans criticize current Star Trek for being too generic, maybe these hypothetical Joes and Janes are also calling Star Trek "generic science fiction" because they've only been exposed to the JJ Abrams films, and DISC and PIC.

Or maybe they consider it generic science fiction only because the franchise itself is so iconic and ubiquitous now. Most people I know don't even watch Star Trek or like it, but would probably cite it if asked "What's science fiction."

Even within the sci-fi community, I'm sure many would associate Star Trek as generic sci-fi.

I would be surprised considering that many, many episodes of TOS and TNG don't feel like generic sci-fi, but either way that's something else entirely. There's different levels to this. People have different interpretations of what's underground, mainstream, indie, etc.

I mean, generic sci-fi is basically about an ill-defined military-like service that denies it's military wearing uniforms that are either multi-coloured and/or jumpsuits in ships with improbable FTL capabilities having run-ins with human-like "aliens" who of course speak English and planets with a hidden mystery. Not only does that sum up Star Trek, it also sums up a good many other sci-fi properties too.

I think much of the criticism is that some new Star Trek properties are leaning more towards the action element of film and television.
Most people I know wouldn't admit to liking science fiction, don't watch Star Trek, and don't know who Isaac Asimov is or Harlan Ellison, but they loved Aliens and Terminator.
The most notable change in this action side seemed to be TWOK. TMP was more about exploration and wonder, but it didn't make a big enough profit. So they went more mainstream, making it more action influenced and it was a hit.
TNG on the other hand wasn't very action-oriented as a whole when it started, so no surprise that it wasn't an immediate hit. Picard being the anti-Kirk and all.
For me the TNG films definitely tried to be more mainstream, generic sci-fi. FIRST CONTACT was heavily influenced by Aliens and maybe a bit by Terminator. They even use something more similar to assault rifles or pulse rifles instead of traditional phasers. "Lock and load" was from Insurrection I think.

 

[The Wormhole]

I think much of the criticism is that some new Star Trek properties are leaning more towards the action element of film and television.
Most people I know wouldn't admit to liking science fiction, don't watch Star Trek, and don't know who Isaac Asimov is or Harlan Ellison, but they loved Aliens and Terminator.
The most notable change in this action side seemed to be TWOK. TMP was more about exploration and wonder, but it didn't make a big enough profit. So they went more mainstream, making it more action influenced and it was a hit.

TOS was itself an action show, and is identified as an action show in the writer's guide, written by the Divine Hand of Gene Himself. TMP, and later TNG were the outliers.

 

[Lord Garth]

1967 Captain Kirk: "I'm a soldier, not a diplomat."

Utopia disproven.

Might as well finish it. "I'm a soldier, not a diplomat. I can only tell you the truth."

Sometimes the truth hurts for people who want to believe one thing but what's in front of them tells them otherwise.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Ain't it a shame it's not the early 90's anymore.

Funny how the late 60's "Star Trek Box" was also disposable to Mr. Roddenberry.

Gene's "Vision" would probably have been heavily modified by himself for the present time period as well.
(if ha had lived this long)

If Gene had lived this long, #metoo would have destroyed him. And, you're absolutely right that Gene would have taken full advantage of the opportunities presented to him by a format like CBS All Access.

He also didn't like 'Measure of a Man', considered to be a very good episode by a lot of TNG fans.

Gene's main complaint was that there weren't lawyers in the 24th century. LMAO!

What were his exact criticisms or problems with those two films?
I thought Undiscovered Country was an enjoyable film. I like all the TOS films. But I personally can find fault with the film.

Long story short, Gene felt they were too militaristic.

 

[Thomas Elliot]

TOS was itself an action show, and is identified as an action show in the writer's guide, written by the Divine Hand of Gene Himself. TMP, and later TNG were the outliers.

I'm not too familiar with TOS. The more notable stories I just assumed were more thoughtful and not about action fist fights. Yet most of the episodes I've seen seem to be battle scenarios or fisticufs. The one where the Romulans are revealed is straight up military battle, the ones with the Klingons, I'm assuming the lizard man one. I guess "Mirror, Mirror" counts but I think that's more in the direction of alternate realities and parallel universes.

As far as TMP and TNG being outliers that seems like it, and probably why TNG wasn't accepted initially. I wonder if the fans who are critical of current Trek grew up on TOS or TNG. I'm guessing the latter.
I think it's interesting thought that even in this "action show" Nimoy felt ill at ease having Spock "bonk someone over the head" in a violent act, and instead came up with the Vulcan nerve pinch.

 

[Greg Cox]

At the risk of belaboring the point, it does often seem that when people say something is "not STAR TREK" what they really mean is it's "not TNG."

As though TNG and STAR TREK are one and the same.

 

[The Wormhole]

I think it's interesting thought that even in this "action show" Nimoy felt ill at ease having Spock "bonk someone over the head" in a violent act, and instead came up with the Vulcan nerve pinch.

That's because Nimoy wanted to create a unique fighting technique for an alien character to employ, not because he was against violence.

 

[Thomas Elliot]

Long story short, Gene felt they were too militaristic.

Meyer's first meeting with Roddenberry resulted in Meyer storming out of the room within five minutes. As with Meyer's previous Star Trek film (The Wrath of Khan), the script had strong military overtones, with a naval theme present throughout. Far from being idealized, the characters were shown as bigoted and flawed. In contrast to Roddenberry's vision of the future, Meyer thought there was no evidence that bigotry would disappear by the 23rd century.[20] When Roddenberry protested about the villainization of Saavik, Meyer replied that "I created Saavik. She was not Gene's. If he doesn't like what I plan on doing with her, maybe he should give back the money he's made off my films. Maybe then I'll care what he has to say."[21] After the stormy first meeting, a group including Meyer, Roddenberry, and producer Ralph Winter discussed the revised draft. Roddenberry would voice his disapproval of elements of the script line by line, and he and Meyer would square off about them while Winter took notes. Overall, the tone of the meeting was conciliatory, but the producers ultimately ignored many of Roddenberry's concerns.[37] By February 13, 1991, the film was officially put into production with the agreement it would be in theaters by the end of the year.[28]

I can't argue with that. Even prior to all this "NOT Star Trek" talk, I thought it felt a little weird that all these characters and people in Starfleet were so racist all of sudden. Yeah, yeah, McCoy. But overall, it just seemed too weird. They come into contact with alien races ALL THE TIME. But suddenly the way Klingons eat is something to comment on? They've probably seen way weirder shit, and to them it'd be normal.
I get that these long-time enemies would be viewed negatively and with distrust. But they hit you over the head with the racism element in the most unsubtle way. Oh the black Starfleet Admiral is the most racist one. I get it, irony. I can see why Roddenberry didn't agree with it.
Making Saavik the traitor? I get hating that as well. On one hand, you need the betrayal to be someone we know well to have it have some impact. But it comes across as a complete heel turn just to subvert expectations. Why not have McCoy be the traitor? Because Saavik has less seniority with fans and is thus disposable.

 

[Thomas Elliot]

At the risk of belaboring the point, it does often seem that when people say something is "not STAR TREK" what they really mean is it's "not TNG."

As though TNG and STAR TREK are one and the same.

I think it's because TNG was what TOS couldn't be, not to mention what the Federation in TOS, in-universe, became. Because TNG was in syndication and because Roddenberry had good will because of the success of the films, he was able to execute his ideas better.

 

[Greg Cox]

I wonder if the fans who are critical of current Trek grew up on TOS or TNG. I'm guessing the latter..

I'm inclined to agree with you there. My own (unconfirmed) impression is that most of the criticism comes from the TNG generation, not those of us who grew up on TOS instead.

Don't get me wrong. I enjoyed TNG (after the first season or so), but I object to it being treated as the gold standard to which all other Trek shows, past and present, should be compared. From where I'm sitting, it's just one of several spin-offs of the original STAR TREK.

 

[Thomas Elliot]

That's because Nimoy wanted to create a unique fighting technique for an alien character to employ, not because he was against violence.

He says otherwise in his interview with Barbara Frum.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I believe Nimoy thought Spock wouldn't be the type to punch someone. So he came up with a way to knock someone out without punching them. More about the character than Nimoy's personal philosophy.

 

[Thomas Elliot]

I'm inclined to agree with you there. My own (unconfirmed) impression is that most of the criticism comes from the TNG generation, not those of us who grew up on TOS instead.

Yeah, it's interesting. I've talked with older fans who grew up with TOS and prefer it to TNG, and they LOVE the Abrams films. And me, I grew up on the TNG show and I'm not too fond of the Abrams films because there's less exploration and too much of a focus on action.

 

[Thomas Elliot]

I believe Nimoy thought Spock wouldn't be the type to punch someone. So he came up with a way to knock someone out without punching them. More about the character than Nimoy's personal philosophy.

While he said he had no problem with violence of death when portrayed in a meaningful and consequential way, it was more than just about what his character or wouldn't do. He calls hitting someone over the head with the butt of a gun (phaser) "archaic" and that having the nerve pinch was some sort of progress or sophistication, in relation to how stories are told in television.

 

[Greg Cox]

Yeah, it's interesting. I've talked with older fans who grew up with TOS and prefer it to TNG, and they LOVE the Abrams films. And me, I grew up on the TNG show and I'm not too fond of the Abrams films because there's less exploration and too much of a focus on action.

True story: Several years ago I was interviewed by a reporter from The New York Post who expected me to condemn all the action in the new movies. "The original series was known for being non-violent, correct?"

But I was like: "Are you kidding? Captain Kirk got into a fist-fight every other week! And all those redshirts didn't exactly die of natural causes!"

Drove me nuts that some folks kept complaining that a movie based on TOS wasn't more like TNG.

"Starfleet cadets would never get into a barroom brawl!"
"Um, have you seen 'The Trouble with Tribbles'?"

And, yeah, I'm one of those old-school fans who generally loves the new movies.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

But I was like: "Are you kidding? Captain Kirk got into a fist-fight every other week! And all those redshirts didn't exactly die of natural causes!"

Did this make it into the article?

 

[Nerys Myk]

"Starfleet cadets would never get into a barroom brawl!"
"Um, have you seen 'The Trouble with Tribbles'?"

Didn't Cadet Picard get stabbed through the heart in a fight at an establishment that served drinks?

 

[fireproof78]

Didn't Cadet Picard get stabbed through the heart in a fight at an establishment that served drinks?

Kool-Aid.

 

[Thomas Elliot]

Didn't Cadet Picard get stabbed through the heart in a fight at an establishment that served drinks?

Great episode, one of the best. But young Picard being a ladies man and a reckless dude who picks a fight with a bunch of Nausicaans sounded out of character to me. Captain Picard is shown to be a little too smitten and open when it comes to women he's attracted to, at least with regards to Lt. Daren and the metamorph. Someone who was originally going to get into a archaeology, and nerds out over ancient woven baskets doesn't seem like the type who was this reckless 20-something cadet.
It felt like they were trying to give him a more Kirk-like past for that episode.

 

[fireproof78]

The most notable change in this action side seemed to be TWOK. TMP was more about exploration and wonder, but it didn't make a big enough profit. So they went more mainstream, making it more action influenced and it was a hit.

That's not the whole story, TMP was way over budget but made its budget and made a profit. However, the cost overruns made the studio nervous so the moved to Harve Bennett who then newcomer Nicholas Meyer to helm TWOK. Meyer came in, little background in Trek, binged what he could, and took 8(ish) disparate scripts and condensed them together. The studio tightly controlled the budget to avoid overruns, so he worked with TMP assets to produce the film, such as the cadet uniforms being recolored TMP uniforms.

It's not as simple "they went mainstream." They went with a more limited approach and it happened to pay off, even if it rubbed Roddenberry, and some fans, the wrong way.

Great episode, one of the best. But young Picard being a ladies man and a reckless dude who picks a fight with a bunch of Nausicaans sounded out of character to me. Captain Picard is shown to be a little too smitten and open when it comes to women he's attracted to, at least with regards to Lt. Daren and the metamorph. Someone who was originally going to get into a archaeology, and nerds out over ancient woven baskets doesn't seem like the type who was this reckless 20-something cadet.
It felt like they were trying to give him a more Kirk-like past for that episode.

But, why? People change over the years. I know one or two.