Opinion circa 1987: TNG is NOT Star Trek

[Nakita Akita]

I saw about the first 10 minutes of TNG when it first aired.
They showed Picard, and I stopped watching.
I thought he looked about 70 years old.
And I was like " yea, right, they get some senile old guy to be captain of the most prestigious ship?"
I never watched the show again until it was over with and in rerun.
Now, well, now I'm TNG crazy.
And in my cubicle at work I have three portraits that I did of Picard.
I guess as you get older, people in old shows look younger.
I only despise a couple of episodes.
Masks and SubRosa.
I seriously don't think I've ever actually watched all of Masks to this day.
I've tried several times, but und myself wandering around the house doing something else while it's on.

My favorite racist episode it the one with the uneducated, drunk Irish people.

 

[Dale Sams]

I saw about the first 10 minutes of TNG when it first aired.
They showed Picard, and I stopped watching.
I thought he looked about 70 years old.
And I was like " yea, right, they get some senile old guy to be captain of the most prestigious ship?"
I never watched the show again until it was over with and in rerun.
Now, well, now I'm TNG crazy.
And in my cubicle at work I have three portraits that I did of Picard.
I guess as you get older, people in old shows look younger.
I only despise a couple of episodes.
Masks and SubRosa.
I seriously don't think I've ever actually watched all of Masks to this day.
I've tried several times, but und myself wandering around the house doing something else while it's on.

My favorite racist episode it the one with the uneducated, drunk Irish people.

Watch The Bounty sometime. Everyone is so young and dreamy. Even Hopkins.

 

[Lance]

One of the things I loved about the BBC growing up was that as a matter of policy they conducted surveys with members of the public, asking them their contemporary views of television (alas, a policy they no longer seek, apart from providing an email address), which means for a long period of time there are extensive records of what people at the time thought about each week's Doctor Who, etc.

Not from the standpoint of being ratings driven, but just that as a publically owned broadcaster they wanted to ensure what they produced met with audience expectations. But it does leave us a lot of interesting data, historically.

 

[Nakita Akita]

Watch The Bounty sometime. Everyone is so young and dreamy. Even Hopkins.

Anthony Hopkins, dreamy?
He'll always be the cannibal to me.

 

[ThankQ]

There are three good things about TNG S1-S2:
1. Elementary, Dear Data
2. The Measure of a Man
3. THE SCORING!!!

The music was fanfuckingtastic. Each episode had its own theme and flavor. Anyone who says otherwise is full of hooey.

Now, if you'll excuse me, @cooleddie74 and I are off to find us a couple low mileage pit woofies and help 'em build a memory.

 

[Amasov]

I'm sure it also didn't help that the TOS films were still very much active at that time. It wasn't as if that era had ended and TNG came next. There was still an overlap between the two.

 

[Salinga]

The criticism of TNG at its beginning was about its form, not its content. From its content, it is cleary Star Trek. The criticism was mostly about "it's not Kirk, Spock & McCoy and the 1701". The artistic vision behind TNG is cleary very close to TOS. It is a natural continuation of the fictional Star Trek universe.

DIS & PIC on the other hand have a totally different artistic vision. These shows reference the sh*t out of former Star Trek, try to be of the same form, while hiding its artistically totally different, even opposite core.

 

[Christopher]

DIS & PIC on the other hand have a totally different artistic vision. These shows reference the sh*t out of former Star Trek, try to be of the same form, while hiding its artistically totally different, even opposite core.

You say that like it's a bad thing. Exploring the strange and new is not supposed to be a negative in Star Trek.

 

[Thomas Elliot]

DIS & PIC on the other hand have a totally different artistic vision. These shows reference the sh*t out of former Star Trek, try to be of the same form, while hiding its artistically totally different, even opposite core.

How is PIC so different or even opposite to that of former Star Trek?

I think that a lot of early criticism may have been "it's not Kirk, Spock, McCoy..." As a kid who wasn't even a big fan, I felt the same. And the TOS films as Amasov noted were still coming out, so you had this saga playing out on the big screen with the "real" Enterprise crew, and the continuing story of the Klingons, Kirk's life, finding out he had a son, then the son dying, Savik...all this stuff.
Then you have this totally new group of random people aboard another Enterprise, one-and-done episodes that have no lasting impact on anything, and some of the episodes are kind of "quite". "The Royale" for example. I found it interesting then and now, but seeing the excitement of the TOS films and then seeing that? I might have been disappointed if that was the case.

 

[Christopher]

Then you have this totally new group of random people aboard another Enterprise

I don't get why people would find that strange or objectionable. There had been many successful TV spinoffs before, and there were successful spinoffs on TV at the time (e.g. Knots Landing). It's not like it was an unfamiliar concept. (Granted, though, most spinoffs were of familiar supporting characters graduating to be leads of their own shows.)

one-and-done episodes that have no lasting impact on anything

Like the vast majority of other TV series at the time and before.

 

[Thomas Elliot]

I don't get why people would find that strange or objectionable. There had been many successful TV spinoffs before, and there were successful spinoffs on TV at the time (e.g. Knots Landing). It's not like it was an unfamiliar concept. (Granted, though, most spinoffs were of familiar supporting characters graduating to be leads of their own shows.)

Didn't most TV spin-offs involve a character who appeared in the original show? TNG didn't have that. And again, Kirk, Spock and McCoy were already iconic television characters at that time. In comparison to actors on TNG that no one had no familiarity or connection to.

Like the vast majority of other TV series at the time and before.

Except the majority of other TV series at the time and before didn't have a movie franchise going on at the same time. So I can see why some fans preferred the saga of the original Star Trek films, which, starting with II, was a continuation of one to the next. Search for Spock they blew up their own ship and commandeered a Klingon BOP, then TVH starts off directly from the ending of TSFS with our heroes using a Klingon BOP for the entire film.

 

[cooleddie74]

There are three good things about TNG S1-S2:
1. Elementary, Dear Data
2. The Measure of a Man
3. THE SCORING!!!

The music was fanfuckingtastic. Each episode had its own theme and flavor. Anyone who says otherwise is full of hooey.

Now, if you'll excuse me, @cooleddie74 and I are off to find us a couple low mileage pit woofies and help 'em build a memory.

[*Replicates a martini with an olive for the vitamins and grabs my similarly-replicated guitar*]

 

[drt]

The music was fanfuckingtastic. Each episode had its own theme and flavor. Anyone who says otherwise is full of hooey.

Agreed.

Another think i like about S1-2 is the moodier lighting. The later seasons are so overlit (which I assume makes production quicker/cheaper if the crew isn't spending time settting up complex lighting schemes) that it gives the show a soap operish, shot-on-video look.

 

[Thomas Elliot]

Agreed.

Another think i like about S1-2 is the moodier lighting. The later seasons are so overlit (which I assume makes production quicker/cheaper if the crew isn't spending time settting up complex lighting schemes) that it gives the show a soap operish, shot-on-video look.

Okay, so it wasn't just me! The lighting really was changed. Yeah, I liked the brighter lighting in later seasons so much better. It felt brighter and conveyed optimism better. But the moody lighting does have it's own benefits in the early seasons, especially when something creepy or mysterious is going on.

 

[Christopher]

Didn't most TV spin-offs involve a character who appeared in the original show?

I did actually say that in the passage you quoted. It is usually the case, but not always. Sometimes it's only technically the case, in that the characters are put in one episode of an existing series as a backdoor pilot to set up the spinoff, like "Assignment: Earth" with Gary Seven. In the case of the original The Bionic Woman, Jaime Sommers was a one-time guest star who appeared in a single 2-parter and died at the end, but she was such a hit that they resurrected her to give her a spinoff.

And again, Kirk, Spock and McCoy were already iconic television characters at that time. In comparison to actors on TNG that no one had no familiarity or connection to.

Oh, LeVar Burton was pretty famous, thanks to Roots. Jonathan Frakes had had some fairly high-profile roles, notably in the miniseries North and South. Patrick Stewart wasn't a household name in the US (though he was well-known in the UK), but he was recognizable from I, Claudius, Dune, and Lifeforce. And I was familiar with Brent Spiner from his recurring role on Night Court. (Ironically, his character had just been set up in the previous season's finale to become a regular, but then he got the Trek gig and his character just vanished without explanation between seasons.)

Although for me, and probably for a number of others, the real draw of TNG was the behind-the-scenes talent. I mean, it was more Star Trek from Gene Roddenberry, D.C. Fontana, David Gerrold, and Bob Justman! Not to mention having TMP's Andrew Probert and Rick Sternbach doing the production design. That should've been great no matter who the actors or characters were. Although of course, we had no idea at the time what a wreck Roddenberry's physical and mental health were and how he and his clique would mishandle the script rewrites, alienate the other writers, and drive them all away within a year.

 

[drt]

Oh, LeVar Burton was pretty famous, thanks to Roots. Jonathan Frakes had had some fairly high-profile roles, notably in the miniseries North and South. Patrick Stewart wasn't a household name in the US (though he was well-known in the UK), but he was recognizable from I, Claudius, Dune, and Lifeforce. And I was familiar with Brent Spiner from his recurring role on Night Court. (Ironically, his character had just been set up in the previous season's finale to become a regular, but then he got the Trek gig and his character just vanished without explanation between seasons.)

I remember seeing the actors' base salaries published for the first season. Burton and Stewart were the highest paid at around $100,000 each, so I guess they were hoping that Burton would be a big draw. The rest were in the $35,000-$50,000 range.

 

[Roboturner913]

Yep.
People are stupid and small-minded in general. The problem is, they don't know they're small-minded. They think they know everything.
I don't consider myself particularly smart, but maybe I'm smart enough to understand I'm not very smart, and thus I leave myself open to new ideas and new experiences a little more readily. I think my life is richer for it; I'm not constantly looking for things to reject or rebuke, or people I'm supposed to dislike, and therefore I can learn from them.
Is that egoistic? No. I don't give myself any credit for that mindset. It's something that was taught to me. Be humble, be open, be willing to learn. I honestly don't think that, besides the bare essentials of survival, there's anything more important in life.

 

[Thomas Elliot]

Oh, LeVar Burton was pretty famous, thanks to Roots.

That was 10 years earlier. I think I recognized him as the guy from Reading Rainbow but not too much of a household name like other actors at the time.

Jonathan Frakes had had some fairly high-profile roles, notably in the miniseries North and South. Patrick Stewart wasn't a household name in the US (though he was well-known in the UK), but he was recognizable from I, Claudius, Dune, and Lifeforce. And I was familiar with Brent Spiner from his recurring role on Night Court. (Ironically, his character had just been set up in the previous season's finale to become a regular, but then he got the Trek gig and his character just vanished without explanation between seasons.)

I'd imagine that none of those actors were really familiar with general audiences. At least not enough to be draws on their own. I watched Night Court as a kid and I didn't even make the connection to Data until AFTER TNG came out and I later saw Night Court reruns.

Although for me, and probably for a number of others, the real draw of TNG was the behind-the-scenes talent. I mean, it was more Star Trek from Gene Roddenberry, D.C. Fontana, David Gerrold, and Bob Justman! Not to mention having TMP's Andrew Probert and Rick Sternbach doing the production design. That should've been great no matter who the actors or characters were. Although of course, we had no idea at the time what a wreck Roddenberry's physical and mental health were and how he and his clique would mishandle the script rewrites, alienate the other writers, and drive them all away within a year.

Expectations can be a hindrance sometimes. The main reason I watched TNG was because we didn't have cable and nothing else was on besides news, tabloid shows, and adult dramas. I didn't think much of Star Trek as a concept at the time, yet I secretly enjoyed the show in spite of myself.
Syndication and lack of options strangely enough helped me appreciate the show. Funny enough, the shows that I chose to watch and was excited about at the time, I watch now and think they're crap.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I stuck with TNG only because it was Star Trek. I'm glad I did, because there was a nice uptick in quality during S2. By S3, it really got rolling.

 

[Phoenix219]

There were two refugee ships, and the okudagrams in the movie identified them as being of El-Aurian registry (even though one was aparently called the SS Robert Fox).

Anyway, I always assumed that the El-Aurians had spent decades migrating across the galaxy and those two ships were simply the ones they used on the last leg of their journey. Refugees' journeys often have many stages; sometimes they never end at all.

Granted, Crusher said that Soran escaped the Borg aboard the Lakul, but that doesn't add up, because Guinan was on the Lakul too, and we know from "Q Who" that Guinan wasn't there when the Borg destroyed her homeworld.

So the obvious answer is that this is a different version of Guinan, from another universe, another time period, or from the Nexus in a timey whimey way. Begin speculation!