Star Trek Picard is not Star Trek
- Thread starter AnotherGalaxys
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Gene said that TFF was apocryphal. Tough, Gene. That's not how this works.
Yeah, but that was a film and not a television series.
I first saw and became a fan of the TOS films after growing up on TNG. TWOK was the first one I saw and I thought the revenge factor, the vicious worms in the ears, all that stuff was great. Then I saw TMP and personally, I found that one to be the most fascinating and interesting of all the TOS film series. Re-watching TWOK I think it's a bit overrated. The new uniforms, the classic camaraderie of Kirk, Spock and McCoy, the introduction of Savik and more lighter elements, were all great. But that sense of exploring the unknown was missing. That's why I like TMP.
It's interesting that the original Star Trek TV show didn't catch on when it originally aired, the motion picture didn't quite connect with mainstream audiences, and TNG probably only survived because it was a syndicated television show.
TVH is a fish-out-of-water comedy, well loved by fans and I personally love it. But I wouldn't want an entire series like that.
You must have missed most episodes of DS9 after September of 1994.
What were his exact criticisms or problems with those two films?
I thought Undiscovered Country was an enjoyable film. I like all the TOS films. But I personally can find fault with the film.
No you see, Sisko poisoning an entire planet and condoning the assassination of a Romulan Senator to deceive the Romulans into the war against the Dominion is okay because reasons
The militarism of Starfleet.
Gene's Vision™ clearly included military-grade night vision goggles.
Yeah because STAR TREK has ALWAYS been so original, and didn't itself borrow from a 1956 film called FORBIDDEN PLANET...oh, wait...
STAR TREK has always (at it's best) been good old spaceship based science fiction. A little contemplation here, some space/ground based action there, plus a bit of ship porn from time to time.
IMO - It becomes tedious when some fans try to claim it's some sort of grand philosophical statement, and not just plain old good entertainment with a bit of a message sometimes thrown in, and sometimes not.
Especially when Roddenberry played into it or worse began to believe it.
Maybe that and other factors are why it wasn't as successful as TNG.
I watched TNG all the time, but when DS9 came out I gave it a try and it just didn't click for me. I couldn't put my finger on it exactly but I was kind of indifferent to it. I caught a couple of excellent episodes on TV here and there. The one where Sisko is imagining himself as a SF writer in the 30s or 40s. And when Jake loses his father and spends his life trying to find him. REALLY good Star Trek. I guess the look of the space station didn't feel like Star Trek, it was static whereas in TNG they were traveling everywhere. I didn't care for the religious angle. When I finally watched the episode where Sisko fakes evidence and goes through with the coverup of an assassination it definitely didn't feel like Star Trek or Starfleet to me. What else will they do just to keep their precious Federation intact? On it's own it's an excellent episode, and I love how his supposed confession/breaking of the fourth wall to the audience turns out to be something else.
The Klingons coming across as comedy relief kind of diluted their element of danger too.
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I get that but streaming shows are treated as films. But, TWOK is the most anti Roddenberry box film produced.
TNG seemed pretty different from mainstream sci-fi at the time, and definitely different from everything else on TV. Now if you want to point out that Star Trek borrowed heavily from other science fiction and other sources fine. But I don't think mainstream audiences were aware that a "positronic" brain or matrix came from Isaac Asimov when it was first introduced. Well read readers of science-fiction yes.
1967 Captain Kirk: "I'm a soldier, not a diplomat."
Utopia disproven.
Utopia disproven.
Yeah, I was thinking about that too when I made my post, and definitely something that should be taken into consideration for PIC. The title alone indicates it's more about Picard than continuing the general theme of Star Trek. And it feels more cinematic.
But I can see why people would say that it feels more generic than TNG at the time. For me, TNG was my formal introduction into science-fiction, and there was nothing else like it on TV that I was aware of.
PIC on the other hand seems very similar to other mainstream contemporary sci-fi out there at times. What sets it apart is it's focusing social commentary on immediate issues of today. I don't think there's another SF show that's making the US/Trump/wall/refugee/border issue it's main focus.
While I appreciate that point because Trek has always done the commentary but I don't feel the same pressing need for Trek commentary as say with the 60s. But, I am grateful for Stewart's passion.
It always amuses me when the True Fans get on their soapbox with the line "this isn't Star Trek, it's generic science fiction." I guarantee, ask the vast majority of Joes and Janes on the Street what "generic science fiction" is they're almost certainly going to say Star Trek. Unless they say Star Wars. My point is, despite the True Fans' protestations to the contrary, according to fifty percent of Normies out there, Star Trek is generic science fiction.
Even within the sci-fi community, I'm sure many would associate Star Trek as generic sci-fi. I mean, generic sci-fi is basically about an ill-defined military-like service that denies it's military wearing uniforms that are either multi-coloured and/or jumpsuits in ships with improbable FTL capabilities having run-ins with human-like "aliens" who of course speak English and planets with a hidden mystery. Not only does that sum up Star Trek, it also sums up a good many other sci-fi properties too.
Which applies to humans in STAR TREK as well. Look at Ben Finney, Laurence Marvick, Ronald Tracy, Janice Lester, Lenore Karidian, etc.
Lon Suder, eliminator Leck, Kathryn Janeway...
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