Star Trek Picard is not Star Trek

[Salinga]

On Earth, right now, March 2020, 99% of the people look human. Why is it not easy for us to be flawless?

- Psychopathy (Sociopathy).
- (Malignant) Narcissism.

 

[Hythlodeus]

Not me. I'm waiting for the Love Instructors

 

[Hythlodeus]

- Psychopathy (Sociopathy).
- (Malignant) Narcissism.

There are psychopaths in Starfleet

 

[Greg Cox]

The DNA of Trek is the Roddenberry-Box. Until 2005 it was respected, sometime more, sometime less. But producers and writers did struggle with it (sometimes forced by Roddenberry, Berman and Michael Piller), because it was what made Trek exceptional, unconventional story telling within the science fiction genre. Without that, it's just run-of-the-mill science fiction, business as usual. More of the same. Easy to write, easy to produce and easy to consume (and thus easy to sell).

I guess I prefer the Box, circa 1966 or so, before it congealed into the 1987 version.

Not to mention the Nicholas Meyer Box. If THE WRATH OF KHAN can't fit into the Box, then the Box is too restrictive. IMO.

 

[Thomas Elliot]

He gave his blessing. And I began to learn how Roddenberryʼs Box forced us as writers to come up with new and interesting ways to tell stories instead of falling back into easier, familiar devices.

That was a good read. And I agree that the challenge is what made Star Trek, or at least TNG Star Trek unique.

 

[Hythlodeus]

 

[fireproof78]

Not to mention the Nicholas Meyer Box. If THE WRATH OF KHAN can't fit into the Box, then the Box is too restrictive. IMO

I share this opinion. What a lot of people don't realize is that TWOK, for as beloved as it is now, does not fit that box.

 

[DaveyNY]

I agree with the OP, that PIC/DIS is not Star Trek. It is generic science fiction. It references the sh*t out of Trek and uses it's brand name, but mostly for commercial reasons: To make selling the product easier. The producers bank on the "tribalism" of the Trek fandom when it comes to products labelled "Star Trek" to ensure the inflow of money. A lot of producers that are, and they all want that sweet sweet Trek money from the Trek fans on their bank accounts.

The DNA of Trek is the Roddenberry-Box. Until 2005 it was respected, sometime more, sometime less. But producers and writers did struggle with it (sometimes forced by Roddenberry, Berman and Michael Piller), because it was what made Trek exceptional, unconventional story telling within the science fiction genre. Without that, it's just run-of-the-mill science fiction, business as usual. More of the same. Easy to write, easy to produce and easy to consume (and thus easy to sell).

I think, Michael Piller (head writer TNG, showcreator DS9+VOY) described it best how important the so called "Roddenberry-Box" was for the exceptional story telling and world building of "Star Trek" in his book "Fade In" (about writing the movie "Insurrection"):



Here is Michael Piller talking about a discussion he had with Gene Roddenberry about the story telling for "Star Trek" and how it made him understand the artistic vision:

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Ain't it a shame it's not the early 90's anymore.

Funny how the late 60's "Star Trek Box" was also disposable to Mr. Roddenberry.

Gene's "Vision" would probably have been heavily modified by himself for the present time period as well.
(if ha had lived this long)

 

[Nerys Myk]

The Box needs to be broken up for kindling and set on fire.

 

[DaveyNY]

The Box needs to be broken up for kindling and set on fire.

Heh ... I'n thinking that the naysayers already feel that has happened.

At least with the "Box" they imagine still exists.

 

[Salinga]

Well, I guess PIC is a show for people who have a pretty cynical world view. It fits the show's content...

 

[Nerys Myk]

Heh ... I'n thinking that the naysayers already feel that has happened.

At least with the "Box" they imagine still exists.

The Box wasn't well constructed, anyway.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Well, I guess PIC is a show for people who have a pretty cynical world view. It fits the show's content...

Nah.

 

[fireproof78]

The Box needs to be broken up for kindling and set on fire.

I thought that happened in 1980something.

 

[Greg Cox]

Well, I guess PIC is a show for people who have a pretty cynical world view. It fits the show's content...

I don't know. What could be more cynical than assuming that the new Treks are being made solely for crass, commercial reasons? And that the new creators aren't trying to make the best Trek they can, by their lights?

 

[Hythlodeus]

Well, I guess PIC is a show for people who have a pretty cynical world view. It fits the show's content...

I actually don't know what is cynical bout PIC. It is a very optimistic show to be frank, certainly less cynic than most prestige shows right now.

 

[DaveyNY]

I thought that happened in 1980something.

... or perhaps in 1979?
I'm not sure cause apparently there's been several boxes on the sidelines as well.

Either that or the "BOX" is actually some kind of Rubik's Cube.

 

[Tuskin38]

I agree with the OP, that PIC/DIS is not Star Trek.

As long as it has the name, and the references, it's Star Trek.

 

[fireproof78]

A lot of producers that are, and they all want that sweet sweet Trek money from the Trek fans on their bank accounts.

So did Roddenberry. He made have had a vision but that doesn't make him prophet or saint.

If Star Trek's vision cannot endure even the smallest hint of ambiguity, darkness or difficulty then it doesn't deserve to continue on.

Psychopathy (Sociopathy).
- (Malignant) Narcissism.

Existed in Trek.

Karl Marx was wrong, religion is not the opium of the people. Youtube is...

Ugh, so true...

Well, I guess PIC is a show for people who have a pretty cynical world view. It fits the show's content...

Yup, that's why I work with people and believe in the human capacity to change. Because I'm cynical...

 

[Racefuel]

Well, I guess PIC is a show for people who have a pretty cynical world view. It fits the show's content...

Question, I'd love to hear a coherent argument and answer on this...

What is so fundamentally different from the world of Picard vs the world of DS9?

That was in the "Roddenberry Box" era as it were.

You had the Federation doing very, at bare minimum, morally questionable, if not objectively evil, actions for the greater good. You had human barbarism, you had racism, torture, deception, corruption....

And of all this..in Picard...we're in Federation space for very little time, the most objectively questionable things happen on Free Cloud, which is more or less not governed by the Federation. Beyond that you have a conspiracy in the ranks of Starfleet with collaboration (as has happened before in TNG/DS9, and an Admiral telling JLP to get fucked.