ST Picard - Starships and Technology Season One SPOILER Discusssion
- Thread starter Mark_Nguyen
- Start date
You mean, if one Borg jumps off the fashion cliff, they all jump off the cliff?
Continuing on 106:
- We finally see what's on the lower deck of La Sirena - the mess hall! And apparently some extra storage space behind cargo nets. Neat to see what's down there, neat to consider why it'd be open to the upper deck like that when they're losing a significant part of potential upper deck cargo area. There's an aft compartment we don't really get to see, but later we can sort of see it from the main deck when everyone's strategizing on how to get onto the Artifact.
- Elnor stands in front of the replicator so we don't see his food materialize. Notably, there's a replicator SFX played before the shot cuts to Agnes, and then ANOTHER instance of the same cue just before he turns around... Holding one dish. What happened? Did he de-mat something he didn't like? At the second cue, we hear it and he instantly turns around already holding his dish, without reaching into the replicator to get it. Methinks the second FX cue was something he didn't like dematerializing.. Or he was just fiddling with the thing while eavesdropping on Picard and Jurati.
- The replicator unit has two sizes of pads together, which may be the first time we've seen this in one unit. Is one a drinks dispenser specifically? The controls look like Federation LCARS (unlike everywhere else on the ship) but I could be mistaken, we don't get a close up look.
- The chateau computer interface literally says "Library Computer Access/Retrieval System" across the top.
- Picard googles "The Artifact", "Treaty", and "The Borg". The first result that comes up is the Enteprise-E fighting at the begining of STFC. The next is a shot of the (secret?) Romulan Continuing Committee from DS9 "Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges". Are we meant to think that search engines work about the same here as they do now?
- Googling the above three terms actually leads straight to this video, strangely enough.
- The incredibly impactful shot of Picard as Locutus was taken from the perspective of the Enterprise-D bridge, right before Riker fired their deflector weapon. While it makes sense for the ship to have kept a visual record of that communication, why would they want to use a screenshot from (I guess) a nonexistent security camera on the bridge? Or maybe it was from Data's memory or Geordi's VISOR?
- Wherever it's from, the image that Picard sees is flipped from the original source - Locutus' implants are on the wrong side from Picard's POV. That was deliberate for the VFX guys, as it allowed the shot of him grasping for implants that were no longer there.
- Emmy is the first Captain-rank Starfleet officer we see in this show, and in Command uniform no less. We don't get her official position but it's clearly a desk job and probably back on Earth, given how the logo seen before Emmy picks up the phone is for UFP Starfleet Command. Is this the first Captain-rank desk jockey we've seen since Philipa Louvois?
- The Romulans being in a "250-year bad mood" literally takes us back to 2152 and their first encounter with the NX-01 Enterprise. Nice detail.
- I'm not sure what the Mom AI is hoping to accomplish here. Apparently if it registers that Soji is unbalanced, it puts her to sleep and maybe does a recent memory wipe but otherwise doesn't fix or isolate the problem? Terrible antivirus software right there.
- Soji scans her stuff with a hand unit. I'm guessing it's NOT the equivalent of a tricorder of this era (mostly due to the shape and interface) but instead a portable quantum dating device, the tech for which we first saw on ENT.
- Why DOES Hugh get Picard to beam into an isolated section of the Cube, without a welcoming party? He had ample time to get people in place before signaling being ready to receive him.
- Hugh is a citizen of the Federation and therefore he (and presumably Soji and everyone else from the Federation) has diplomatic power to leave of their own volition. This implies that Hugh at some point had a series of adventures that led him to become a citizen... Unless he already WAS one before he was assimilated. Interesting train of thought either way.
- The Romulan process for recovery of xBs from being assimilated includes a lot of dermal regeneration, but no occular replacements. In the supposed age of enlightenment, are glass eyes not a thing, even if lots of prosthetic eyes aren't affordable or attainable? I guess we ARE talking about potentially thousands of former drones, but how long has the reclamation project been ongoing? If Picard were here a year ago, would we have seen more of the "classic" Borg look?
- The one guy saying "Locutus..?" during the chase scene was probably something written in to keep the scene moving and chaotic. Now, EVERY xB should instantly identify Picard as Locutus, as much as Hugh did. Or is that information contained to a subset of Borg based on function? One wonders.
- The spatial trajector was supposedly reserved for the Queen in need of escape. It can be argued that it's an evolution of the Borg sphere used to escape its mothership cube in STFC. The original trajector was powered by the Sikarian homeworld's unique properties, so however it was powered here it wasn't good enough to facilitate armies of Borg from invading planets en masse.
- OTOH, the loss of a Queen was never a huge issue in Star Trek before... She was always regenerated in time for the next Voayger hijink. Perhaps the trajector was held in reserve in case a Queen needed to scamper off with tangible physical assets.
- Next episode - those 3D virtual holo displays are solid after all?!
Mark
- We finally see what's on the lower deck of La Sirena - the mess hall! And apparently some extra storage space behind cargo nets. Neat to see what's down there, neat to consider why it'd be open to the upper deck like that when they're losing a significant part of potential upper deck cargo area. There's an aft compartment we don't really get to see, but later we can sort of see it from the main deck when everyone's strategizing on how to get onto the Artifact.
- Elnor stands in front of the replicator so we don't see his food materialize. Notably, there's a replicator SFX played before the shot cuts to Agnes, and then ANOTHER instance of the same cue just before he turns around... Holding one dish. What happened? Did he de-mat something he didn't like? At the second cue, we hear it and he instantly turns around already holding his dish, without reaching into the replicator to get it. Methinks the second FX cue was something he didn't like dematerializing.. Or he was just fiddling with the thing while eavesdropping on Picard and Jurati.
- The replicator unit has two sizes of pads together, which may be the first time we've seen this in one unit. Is one a drinks dispenser specifically? The controls look like Federation LCARS (unlike everywhere else on the ship) but I could be mistaken, we don't get a close up look.
- The chateau computer interface literally says "Library Computer Access/Retrieval System" across the top.
- Picard googles "The Artifact", "Treaty", and "The Borg". The first result that comes up is the Enteprise-E fighting at the begining of STFC. The next is a shot of the (secret?) Romulan Continuing Committee from DS9 "Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges". Are we meant to think that search engines work about the same here as they do now?
- Googling the above three terms actually leads straight to this video, strangely enough.
- The incredibly impactful shot of Picard as Locutus was taken from the perspective of the Enterprise-D bridge, right before Riker fired their deflector weapon. While it makes sense for the ship to have kept a visual record of that communication, why would they want to use a screenshot from (I guess) a nonexistent security camera on the bridge? Or maybe it was from Data's memory or Geordi's VISOR?
- Wherever it's from, the image that Picard sees is flipped from the original source - Locutus' implants are on the wrong side from Picard's POV. That was deliberate for the VFX guys, as it allowed the shot of him grasping for implants that were no longer there.
- Emmy is the first Captain-rank Starfleet officer we see in this show, and in Command uniform no less. We don't get her official position but it's clearly a desk job and probably back on Earth, given how the logo seen before Emmy picks up the phone is for UFP Starfleet Command. Is this the first Captain-rank desk jockey we've seen since Philipa Louvois?
- The Romulans being in a "250-year bad mood" literally takes us back to 2152 and their first encounter with the NX-01 Enterprise. Nice detail.
- I'm not sure what the Mom AI is hoping to accomplish here. Apparently if it registers that Soji is unbalanced, it puts her to sleep and maybe does a recent memory wipe but otherwise doesn't fix or isolate the problem? Terrible antivirus software right there.
- Soji scans her stuff with a hand unit. I'm guessing it's NOT the equivalent of a tricorder of this era (mostly due to the shape and interface) but instead a portable quantum dating device, the tech for which we first saw on ENT.
- Why DOES Hugh get Picard to beam into an isolated section of the Cube, without a welcoming party? He had ample time to get people in place before signaling being ready to receive him.
- Hugh is a citizen of the Federation and therefore he (and presumably Soji and everyone else from the Federation) has diplomatic power to leave of their own volition. This implies that Hugh at some point had a series of adventures that led him to become a citizen... Unless he already WAS one before he was assimilated. Interesting train of thought either way.
- The Romulan process for recovery of xBs from being assimilated includes a lot of dermal regeneration, but no occular replacements. In the supposed age of enlightenment, are glass eyes not a thing, even if lots of prosthetic eyes aren't affordable or attainable? I guess we ARE talking about potentially thousands of former drones, but how long has the reclamation project been ongoing? If Picard were here a year ago, would we have seen more of the "classic" Borg look?
- The one guy saying "Locutus..?" during the chase scene was probably something written in to keep the scene moving and chaotic. Now, EVERY xB should instantly identify Picard as Locutus, as much as Hugh did. Or is that information contained to a subset of Borg based on function? One wonders.
- The spatial trajector was supposedly reserved for the Queen in need of escape. It can be argued that it's an evolution of the Borg sphere used to escape its mothership cube in STFC. The original trajector was powered by the Sikarian homeworld's unique properties, so however it was powered here it wasn't good enough to facilitate armies of Borg from invading planets en masse.
- OTOH, the loss of a Queen was never a huge issue in Star Trek before... She was always regenerated in time for the next Voayger hijink. Perhaps the trajector was held in reserve in case a Queen needed to scamper off with tangible physical assets.
- Next episode - those 3D virtual holo displays are solid after all?!
Mark
As for the lower deck and the "hole" in the middle of the top deck of La Sirena...I suspect that's to allow for room for odd-sized freight. Remove the "lunch" tables, and you could tie down a two-story piece of cargo in that spot. Transporters or not, though, you'll be wanting a loading door for freight.
I wonder what such a device would make of Triggers Broom (Ship of Theseus for non-brits). Unless all of the material was replicated at the same time I guess.
I got the impression that it was the Romulans running the joint, who have to put up with Hugh, but had a way to wind him up. They said to Picard "right beam here", then sent a page to Hugh saying "you've got a guest at today's random security location, go pick him up"
I was looking at some of the fan Trek maps and things never quite add up.
Earth is always way too centralized. Earth needs to be very close to Qo'nos and very close to the neutral zone. It would also make some sense if Romulus were close to the neutral zone.
Also the Federation is usually shown to be way too small ORRRR the distance scale is wrong showing like a thousand light years between Earth and Romulus.
If someone has a link to a map that makes the most sense id like to see it.
Earth is always way too centralized. Earth needs to be very close to Qo'nos and very close to the neutral zone. It would also make some sense if Romulus were close to the neutral zone.
Also the Federation is usually shown to be way too small ORRRR the distance scale is wrong showing like a thousand light years between Earth and Romulus.
If someone has a link to a map that makes the most sense id like to see it.
Ever since "The Menagerie" Starfleet was inspired to have security cameras placed strategically in all compartments to ensure dramatic recreations of ship missions.
Same AI that knew Picard was searching for 3 terms last week, despite the pause. Same AI that controls the doors.
I wonder what controls the doors on Romulan ships.
I wonder what controls the doors on Romulan ships.
PIcard could be googling through a custom filter, yes - or then he's simply accessing his own notes on the subjects, organized for him by his personal computer (which may not be much more than a custom filter on a wider net, of course).
Or it's outgoing Borg data, from the Borg POV, which is why it's mirrored. Not from a camera, but from the signal being sent - which the E-D computer flips to adhere to human ideas on how images are to be transmitted and then portrayed.
Also, nobody in our circle of characters appears to have additional information on Romulan antics pre-ENT. So the secret still isn't out... Whatever it is. But I'm sure there's one. (About Vulcan-Romulan interaction in the missing couple of millennia, that is. Not necessarily directly related to this Romulans-are-exiled-skin-jobs hypothesis at all.)
Might be those nifty moving walls play a role - the Cube might not have sections in any truly permanent sense, and might internally reconfigure itself to properly welcome Locutus for all we know. Takes Hugh a while to figure out what's going on now that he's no longer properly connected.
LaForge hated the idea of downgrading to "real" eyes, except for brief indulgences on sunsets or pretty ladies. I could well see the xBs feeling the same. "Cut off my arm? Fine. Not mine to begin with, really. And yes, you can remove two-thirds of my brain. Only bad memories there anyway. But you touch my ocular implant, you got something grey and gooey coming your way, buddy."
It's probably the reverse: this single xB didn't get the memo, or lost it when de-Borgified. Everybody else can skip the part where they wonder, let alone wonder out loud.
The original only ever transported two people at a time, too. Its user interface wasn't suited for crowds, either.
We still don't learn how many Queens there are at one time. Just one, at an arbitrary location where she has a body waiting? Trillions in bodily form, sharing one mind? A fractured mind that holds a family meeting every ten nanoseconds or so but really thinks like a million individuals?
Is a Queen Cell something found on every Borg vessel and facility? Or a rarity or a novelty? Heck, was the Queen a novelty in ST:FC? Everything remains wide open still.
Timo Saloniemi
But it always is, in the modern maps aping the Star Charts. It's barely a couple of dozen lightyears to all the major highlights. A shuttle could make the hop in reasonable time, and in DSC often does.
Earth also sits right on the Klingonward edge of the UFP, there being no known UFP holdings beyond Klingon space in the maps. There's some blue behind Romulan space, though, going by the premise that the Romulans were soundly whipped 250 years ago and could be cordoned off inside a bubble of space, after which the UFP could proceed in that direction. Klingons, not so much...
The Charts assumed the RNZ was an ovoid eggshell. The TOS map showing a segment of the RNZ clearly wasn't showing the very center of such an ovoid when it was showing Romulus - indeed, juxtaposing the TOS map and the ovoid assumption places Romulus pretty close to the Earth side of their eggshell prison/safe haven.
Romulus and Vulcans might be next-door neighbors, really, judging by episodes like "Unification", as we learn of nothing of note standing between them. But story logic might also put some distance between them: if you run away from home, you don't camp out on the driveway, unless you're six years old.
Timo Saloniemi
No reason that wouldn't be the case - we've seen her get disintegrated twice and probably blown up once too, and never has it been considered a done deal. There's no reason to think there's only and exactly one Queen, but her appearances portray her as a unique character no matter where she shows up. Who knows what, if any, queen was in the Queencell, but would the Borg want to keep a room around when there was no regular occupant?
Mark
Mark
I've tended to like the idea of multiple queens myself, even if they each are essentially a single personality controlling more than one body. The queen says in FC that she is an embodiment of the Collective, not an individual leader in the common sense. And we've seen that the Borg like layers of redundancy, because that allows them to adapt to attacks which otherwise would seem reasonably effective. Like the viral warfare seen on VOY and suggested to be built into Hugh in "I, Borg" which seems to work against individual vessels, but the Collective simply cuts them off quickly and prevents it from spreading further. Having multiple queens would be more efficient than a single head that could be cut off in a worse place scenario.
That last possibility brings to mind the “Ancillary” novels, where the semi-immortal space-dictator Anaander Mianaai operates as a semi-synchronized network of clone bodies across his empire. In that case, after a disastrous miscalculation on his part, Mianaai was of two minds about whether to reconsider, or double-down, and the weight of the decision was so close to evenly split in his mind that some of his bodies decided one way, and some decided the other, leading to a very strange Civil/Cold War where both sides were led by the same person, and often didn’t realize there was anything amiss at all.
Starting 107 off with a timeline check...
This has to do with THE PICTURE, in which we see Picard in his Admiral's uniform and bars, but against a background which is a stock picture of the Enterprise-E conference room from "Nemesis" (with the integrated display flanked by cabinets of past good ships Enterprise).
The show happens somewhere in late 2399. In France, wine grapes tend to be in season from August-October depending on location, and in Labarre (southeast of Paris and close to the Swiss border) it doesn't get as hot in the summer due to the altitude, so they probably ripen a bit later in the season.
Anyway, Thaddeus (RIP) would have been 18 years old a week before 107 happens, putting his birth year as 2381 and most likely in the latter half of the year, assuming Troi was going by Earth years and not Betazed or Nepenthe. in the picture, Picard is holding a kid who looks somewhere between 9-12 months to me (I'm a dad). So IMO it's safe to say that the picture was taken somewhere in 2382.
So, how do we interpret Admiral Picard on the bridge of the Enterprise-E in 2382? The reporter said he left the Enterprise to command the Romulan evacuation mission (whether from the bridge of the Verity or whatever). Perhaps the Trois came to Picard's promotion / transfer ceremony on the occasion of him leaving command of the Enterprise, with Thadd in tow? Or maybe they met up with him at some point after his promotion, to show off the new kid, whilst Picard was being shuffled somewhere aboard his old command?
And then on timelines, we know Thadd came down with his condition only somewhere after 2384, after which point synths were banned and his cure was ruled illegal (yeesh, Federation). In terms of Riker and Troi's career, what does that say about their time on the Titan? If we assume that they were aboard her from the end of Nemesis to the time they went inactive and moved to Nepenthe, how many years of Titan-ic adventures could they have had?
Mark
This has to do with THE PICTURE, in which we see Picard in his Admiral's uniform and bars, but against a background which is a stock picture of the Enterprise-E conference room from "Nemesis" (with the integrated display flanked by cabinets of past good ships Enterprise).
The show happens somewhere in late 2399. In France, wine grapes tend to be in season from August-October depending on location, and in Labarre (southeast of Paris and close to the Swiss border) it doesn't get as hot in the summer due to the altitude, so they probably ripen a bit later in the season.
Anyway, Thaddeus (RIP) would have been 18 years old a week before 107 happens, putting his birth year as 2381 and most likely in the latter half of the year, assuming Troi was going by Earth years and not Betazed or Nepenthe. in the picture, Picard is holding a kid who looks somewhere between 9-12 months to me (I'm a dad). So IMO it's safe to say that the picture was taken somewhere in 2382.
So, how do we interpret Admiral Picard on the bridge of the Enterprise-E in 2382? The reporter said he left the Enterprise to command the Romulan evacuation mission (whether from the bridge of the Verity or whatever). Perhaps the Trois came to Picard's promotion / transfer ceremony on the occasion of him leaving command of the Enterprise, with Thadd in tow? Or maybe they met up with him at some point after his promotion, to show off the new kid, whilst Picard was being shuffled somewhere aboard his old command?
And then on timelines, we know Thadd came down with his condition only somewhere after 2384, after which point synths were banned and his cure was ruled illegal (yeesh, Federation). In terms of Riker and Troi's career, what does that say about their time on the Titan? If we assume that they were aboard her from the end of Nemesis to the time they went inactive and moved to Nepenthe, how many years of Titan-ic adventures could they have had?
Mark
The quote about Thad growing up on starships implies that Riker had several commands post-Titan, unless Deanna had been assigned to other ships and took Thad with her.
Or that was meant to be Picard's ready room on the Verity, and his ship collection is not just the Enterprise lineage but famous ships? Didn't he have the Stargazer too?
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