ST Picard - Starships and Technology Season One SPOILER Discusssion
- Thread starter Mark_Nguyen
- Start date
First of all, no to 'Captain Kim."
Second, do we know that the future scenes from "Shattered" made it clear that Voyager was still trying to return to the Alpha Quadrant? Perhaps by that time they had accepted their fate and just decided to continue being 'the only Starfleet vessel assigned to the Delta Quadrant,' as Janeway once annoyingly put it.
I was going to say Captain Tuvok, due to Vulcan longevity, but then I remembered that he had space dementia in the finale that would have gone untreated. Harry might have been last man standing
We can infer that they weren't home, because Icheb and Naomi were still wearing the old-style uniforms which hadn't been used in over 20 years by that point.
We don't know anything more than that, because it's only those two characters we see in that time frame, and only fleetingly.
Hehe, good call on future Icheb and Naomi wearing uniforms out of place. OTOH, it's tough to consider that they would still be in old uniforms by 2394 regardless, as by that point they ought to be within shouting distance of Federation space even if they didn't take any shortcuts. OTOOH, for all we know that aborted future could have seen Voyager flung even further away from home with little hope but to start training the younglings to take their places, wearing the same old uniforms.
There WAS some chatter in the earlier seasons about potentially having to train up replacements for the core crew should their trip take decades... But then again, around the fourth/fifth season (where they effectively leap thirty years closer to home), Janeway points out that the mood of the ship is not IF they'll get home, but WHEN, so that could be an indicator of the showrunners that the concept of a generational ship was abandonned.
Mark
There WAS some chatter in the earlier seasons about potentially having to train up replacements for the core crew should their trip take decades... But then again, around the fourth/fifth season (where they effectively leap thirty years closer to home), Janeway points out that the mood of the ship is not IF they'll get home, but WHEN, so that could be an indicator of the showrunners that the concept of a generational ship was abandonned.
Mark
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First of all, no to 'Captain Kim."
I always preferred "Embittered Renegade Future-Kim" from Timeless, myself. And whaddya know - that's just the kind of guy who'd fit right in on STP...
Further notes on 105, still just in time as I watch Picard on Thursday nights 
:
- To reinforce the fact that Icheb's captors are running Borg bodyshop, we pan across pieces of at least one other Borg corpse. How recent of an acquisition would that other body be? Assuming it's fresh, are we implying there is/were enough drones floating around to be able to hang them up like a butcher's wares without extracting every inch of tech?
- In Bijayzl's club, the assorted dancing silhouettes in the walls seem to be projections and not actual dancers, since during the heist at one point they look frozen in place (this is in itself strange since no one batts an eye when Jay's goons are waving around their weapons). OTOH, when everyone beams out on Seven's return, they are completely absent as though they had beamed out along with the rest of the help.
- Picard's TV projection in "the Chateau" comes with Starfleet-style, TNG-era orange LCARS around the advert, which sorta match the actual motif of his actual home's tech - where kitchen the TV had no LCARS around it but the wall replicator unit did.
- Picard serves Seven a shot of bourbon from a bottle on the wall. Given that this is all a holographic construction, did Mr. Hospitality create everything to a more realistic level, including full bottles of whatever liquor Picard likes on hand?
- According to the record she's looking at, Raffi's son Gabriel was born on Stardate 51554.3788, probably the most decimalized stardate TO date. There are three more stardates on the display that happen about a year later, but I can't make them out. Also, his height and weight are in Imperial units, I believe a first for stats on a display (instead of being randomly placed in dialog). I guess Mars likes it old school. "Freebank" is also listed.
- Each of the Freecloud ads are targeted to each passenger. How does Freecloud know this? Did they provide a passenger manifest on arrival, which includes the equivalent of a Google ad profile? I guess this sorta explains why Elnor didn't get an ad. I wonder if Seven did, even if she wasn't on the bridge.
- Lots has been said about the shop-dropping of Mot and Quark, just registering it here for the record. Also noting that Quark may actually be ON Ferenginar these days and not just "of Ferenginar", running his franchises from there instead of DS9.
- This episode continues the track record of there being only one transporter effect used by anyone in this show - I would have been okay if La Sirena used a Starfleet system of some kind, and if assorted Romulan assassins were leveraging a Federation station or something, but civilians are seen beaming directly into the club with the same effect.
- The hypospray Agnes uses on Rios has a wide, flat application point, versus the more traditional pointy hypo Starfleet has used in the past. La Sirena's medkit from a couple episodes ago didn't have any Starfleet markings on it, but it had a very Starfleet-ish medical caduceus as part of its label, so it sorta made me think it was fleet surplus.
- Mr. Vup is surprised to see a live Borg specimen with "so many implants still active". Aside from a couple modifications and an oddly form-fitting Borg suit, Seven was hardly a special drone before she was freed. Is Vup implying that the average xB has assorted implants that they carry aroudn inside of them deactivated? Seven has now most likely spent more than five times her time on Voyager OFF that ship and presumably a lot of that is away from her old Borg alcove. What makes her so special and does she do anything special to stay in shape, as it were?
- Raffi finds Gabe at the Reproductive Health Services clinic. Some have thought this implies that he and Pel needed help concieving due to the difference in species. That may be true, but there's at least one example of a Human / Romulan hybrid in the form of Simon Tarses from TNG "The Drumhead". We don't know if HE needed help along the way, but there's no real way to tell; this could be a simple medical checkup.
- Yet again, a new Federation starship is named for a person.
- I've already noted that the two phasers Seven grabs off the rack look to be evolutions of the Starfleet rifles from First Contact et. al.. There are at least two other kinds of rifles in the rack. I think that makes a certain amount of sense to grab the type she'd be most familiar with.
- There's a secondary ladder down to the lower deck at the back of the main deck. It's clearly not just a blank space down there, and I'd really love to see more!
- It's not the first time AFAIK, but Seven zaps two goons with blue pulses from her guns, then disintegrates Bijayzl with red pulses, before holding the trigger down and hosing the incoming security in a sea of blue. SFX suggest she did switch once before killing Jay, though not by doing anything visible (there is a blue control panel of sorts just forward of the trigger).
- The episode confirms that Dahj has an "embedded Mom AI" which activated her superpowers, which to me means that there's a program running in parallel with her main consciousness and looking over her. I think the Mom AI is also the mother figure she speaks to on the phone, which had conspicuously flickered as if switching gears like Max Headroom. But does that mean Dahj was speaking to a blank phone when she called up Mom, or was the Mom AI interfacing with the phone as part of the illusion?
- La Sirena's sickbay seriously recalls the one from the USS Prometheus to me. The Red Bolian suggests that she's a civilian model, but I do wonder how Rios modified it over the years to make it more to Starfleet spec than whoever built it originally.
- So are we saying that Rios is being paid in wine? And that doubling his fee to go to the Artifact means he'll be able to drink fine wine for even longer? I know that trying to explain the Federation economy is a rabbit hole whenever it comes up, but so much of this show is dependent on people paying for stuff that it begs discussing how the Federation deals with its neighbors in terms of trade, finances and credit.
- As Agnes is killing Maddox, one of the alarms is from the TNG folder of effects.
Mark
:- To reinforce the fact that Icheb's captors are running Borg bodyshop, we pan across pieces of at least one other Borg corpse. How recent of an acquisition would that other body be? Assuming it's fresh, are we implying there is/were enough drones floating around to be able to hang them up like a butcher's wares without extracting every inch of tech?
- In Bijayzl's club, the assorted dancing silhouettes in the walls seem to be projections and not actual dancers, since during the heist at one point they look frozen in place (this is in itself strange since no one batts an eye when Jay's goons are waving around their weapons). OTOH, when everyone beams out on Seven's return, they are completely absent as though they had beamed out along with the rest of the help.
- Picard's TV projection in "the Chateau" comes with Starfleet-style, TNG-era orange LCARS around the advert, which sorta match the actual motif of his actual home's tech - where kitchen the TV had no LCARS around it but the wall replicator unit did.
- Picard serves Seven a shot of bourbon from a bottle on the wall. Given that this is all a holographic construction, did Mr. Hospitality create everything to a more realistic level, including full bottles of whatever liquor Picard likes on hand?
- According to the record she's looking at, Raffi's son Gabriel was born on Stardate 51554.3788, probably the most decimalized stardate TO date. There are three more stardates on the display that happen about a year later, but I can't make them out. Also, his height and weight are in Imperial units, I believe a first for stats on a display (instead of being randomly placed in dialog). I guess Mars likes it old school. "Freebank" is also listed.
- Each of the Freecloud ads are targeted to each passenger. How does Freecloud know this? Did they provide a passenger manifest on arrival, which includes the equivalent of a Google ad profile? I guess this sorta explains why Elnor didn't get an ad. I wonder if Seven did, even if she wasn't on the bridge.
- Lots has been said about the shop-dropping of Mot and Quark, just registering it here for the record. Also noting that Quark may actually be ON Ferenginar these days and not just "of Ferenginar", running his franchises from there instead of DS9.
- This episode continues the track record of there being only one transporter effect used by anyone in this show - I would have been okay if La Sirena used a Starfleet system of some kind, and if assorted Romulan assassins were leveraging a Federation station or something, but civilians are seen beaming directly into the club with the same effect.
- The hypospray Agnes uses on Rios has a wide, flat application point, versus the more traditional pointy hypo Starfleet has used in the past. La Sirena's medkit from a couple episodes ago didn't have any Starfleet markings on it, but it had a very Starfleet-ish medical caduceus as part of its label, so it sorta made me think it was fleet surplus.
- Mr. Vup is surprised to see a live Borg specimen with "so many implants still active". Aside from a couple modifications and an oddly form-fitting Borg suit, Seven was hardly a special drone before she was freed. Is Vup implying that the average xB has assorted implants that they carry aroudn inside of them deactivated? Seven has now most likely spent more than five times her time on Voyager OFF that ship and presumably a lot of that is away from her old Borg alcove. What makes her so special and does she do anything special to stay in shape, as it were?
- Raffi finds Gabe at the Reproductive Health Services clinic. Some have thought this implies that he and Pel needed help concieving due to the difference in species. That may be true, but there's at least one example of a Human / Romulan hybrid in the form of Simon Tarses from TNG "The Drumhead". We don't know if HE needed help along the way, but there's no real way to tell; this could be a simple medical checkup.
- Yet again, a new Federation starship is named for a person.
- I've already noted that the two phasers Seven grabs off the rack look to be evolutions of the Starfleet rifles from First Contact et. al.. There are at least two other kinds of rifles in the rack. I think that makes a certain amount of sense to grab the type she'd be most familiar with.
- There's a secondary ladder down to the lower deck at the back of the main deck. It's clearly not just a blank space down there, and I'd really love to see more!
- It's not the first time AFAIK, but Seven zaps two goons with blue pulses from her guns, then disintegrates Bijayzl with red pulses, before holding the trigger down and hosing the incoming security in a sea of blue. SFX suggest she did switch once before killing Jay, though not by doing anything visible (there is a blue control panel of sorts just forward of the trigger).
- The episode confirms that Dahj has an "embedded Mom AI" which activated her superpowers, which to me means that there's a program running in parallel with her main consciousness and looking over her. I think the Mom AI is also the mother figure she speaks to on the phone, which had conspicuously flickered as if switching gears like Max Headroom. But does that mean Dahj was speaking to a blank phone when she called up Mom, or was the Mom AI interfacing with the phone as part of the illusion?
- La Sirena's sickbay seriously recalls the one from the USS Prometheus to me. The Red Bolian suggests that she's a civilian model, but I do wonder how Rios modified it over the years to make it more to Starfleet spec than whoever built it originally.
- So are we saying that Rios is being paid in wine? And that doubling his fee to go to the Artifact means he'll be able to drink fine wine for even longer? I know that trying to explain the Federation economy is a rabbit hole whenever it comes up, but so much of this show is dependent on people paying for stuff that it begs discussing how the Federation deals with its neighbors in terms of trade, finances and credit.
- As Agnes is killing Maddox, one of the alarms is from the TNG folder of effects.
Mark
Seven likely had a much better doctor to ease her removal from the Collective than other xBs (as did Icheb, which is what made him such a prize too). What the Doctor couldn't remove cleanly, he managed to adjust to stay active without risk of reassimilation or degradation.
You forgot Sela in the mention of human/Romulan hybrids. We never got much backstory as to whether her birth was tricky either, though. They seem to be going on expanded universe stuff about Spock's birth needing interventions (including some genetic tweaks). Tarses was only 1/4 Romulan so possibly any issues in an F1 hybrid were already resolved enough that an F2 gestation wouldn't be an issue.
The stardate on Raffi's PADD being accurate to four decimal places might just be due to her - she's a patterns/numbers obsessive.
You forgot Sela in the mention of human/Romulan hybrids. We never got much backstory as to whether her birth was tricky either, though. They seem to be going on expanded universe stuff about Spock's birth needing interventions (including some genetic tweaks). Tarses was only 1/4 Romulan so possibly any issues in an F1 hybrid were already resolved enough that an F2 gestation wouldn't be an issue.
The stardate on Raffi's PADD being accurate to four decimal places might just be due to her - she's a patterns/numbers obsessive.
Isn't Seven special for the same reason Icheb was - for having been assimilated young? Supposedly, more implants are needed, then, or they get buried deeper. Young assimilees may be rare for a number of reasons. Either the Borg lie about doing charity work when assimilating, and vastly prefer burly grown-ups, or then there's a high failure rate with those who have been assimilated young (or have lived assimilated for longer than most). Or then those assimilated young are more successful and evade capture...
As for the holographic chateau, I trust its beverages are replicated on demand, just as its rooms are created only when somebody needs to walk into them. Although an alternative might be beaming in "genuine" stuff from Rios' supply, if he obsesses about that issue, or thinks Picard would.
Timo Saloniemi
As for the holographic chateau, I trust its beverages are replicated on demand, just as its rooms are created only when somebody needs to walk into them. Although an alternative might be beaming in "genuine" stuff from Rios' supply, if he obsesses about that issue, or thinks Picard would.
Timo Saloniemi
Yes, I forgot the jeune fille angle. I don't think it's that Borg assimilated in their youth are rare, but perhaps that the implantation is more invasive in those cases such that they are rarely found as xBs like Seven and Icheb - they wouldn't easily survive disconnection. Length of time seems to be a factor - Crusher was certain she could fully restore Picard once the connection to the Collective was gone (mere microsurgery) but the Doctor had a much harder time with Seven and the others, even though he had more details on Borg tech to draw on.
Anyhoo, latest ep:
Anyhoo, latest ep:
xBs do seem to be trickier to fully restore after a long time, given what we see in this ep. Granted, the Romulans aren't necessarily working with the same level of medical tech as the Federation (though they can disguise Rizzo well enough).
The Borg Cube seems to breathe (rippling walls), a nice touch to convey their tech is just as much part of the Collective as the drones.
Sikarian spatial trajector from VOY Prime Factors... the tech in that episode could only work due to unique properties of the planet's mantle, so presumably the Borg solved that, but it may be limited hence explaining why they aren't beaming drones onto planets all over the place.
La Sirena gets to the Artifact in a little over three hours from Freecloud (assuming Rios has only just changed course). Do we have any relative locations we could use to work out a warp factor for?
The Borg Cube seems to breathe (rippling walls), a nice touch to convey their tech is just as much part of the Collective as the drones.
Sikarian spatial trajector from VOY Prime Factors... the tech in that episode could only work due to unique properties of the planet's mantle, so presumably the Borg solved that, but it may be limited hence explaining why they aren't beaming drones onto planets all over the place.
La Sirena gets to the Artifact in a little over three hours from Freecloud (assuming Rios has only just changed course). Do we have any relative locations we could use to work out a warp factor for?
The last would be tough without any real inkling of how fast La Sirena can go. She's a civilian ship, and while there's never been a hint of any Federation craft being limited in their top speed, in general the ones we've seen are not really speed demons in the warp lanes.
Mark
Mark
Well no, if we have the other information I mentioned. We know how long the journey took. If we know roughly how far apart Freehold and the Artifact are (and we might have been provided that, I'm not sure) then the calculation is just flipping the duration = (speed/time) equation and converting to ly per day to approximate a warp factor.
Three hours seems a bit quick, unless Freehold was close to Romulan space (if Vashti was en route, then maybe?) given it took runabouts several days to get from DS9 to Earth (a few days or over a week depending on the ep).
We know the Artifact is in Romulan space proper, not within the former RNZ. We don't know how deep within, though.
Is Freecloud in the former RNZ? This might make all sorts of sense. The RNZ used to be five travel-hours thick for a Warbird in a hurry ("The Enemy"), with an additional implication that it was a couple of lightyears thick (a sixth travel-hour would be spent crossing "nearly half a lightyear"). Can the Sirena do better than a D'deridex? Perhaps. But what better place to establish Freecloud than in space formerly claimed by nobody?
So: if the Artifact is just at the Romulan border (which would make sense - it would have been intercepted there by the scout that was its undoing), then either Freecloud is in the middle of the former RNZ and the heroes travel at the same speed as Tomalak's Warbird but cover just half the distance - or then Freecloud is on the Federation side of the former zone and the Sirena is at least twice as fast as those Romulan behemoths that once gave the E-D a run for her money.
Timo Saloniemi
Is Freecloud in the former RNZ? This might make all sorts of sense. The RNZ used to be five travel-hours thick for a Warbird in a hurry ("The Enemy"), with an additional implication that it was a couple of lightyears thick (a sixth travel-hour would be spent crossing "nearly half a lightyear"). Can the Sirena do better than a D'deridex? Perhaps. But what better place to establish Freecloud than in space formerly claimed by nobody?
So: if the Artifact is just at the Romulan border (which would make sense - it would have been intercepted there by the scout that was its undoing), then either Freecloud is in the middle of the former RNZ and the heroes travel at the same speed as Tomalak's Warbird but cover just half the distance - or then Freecloud is on the Federation side of the former zone and the Sirena is at least twice as fast as those Romulan behemoths that once gave the E-D a run for her money.
Timo Saloniemi
Alpha Doradus - Freecloud's primary - is outside of the former Neutral Zone, on the other side of Romulan space from core Federation systems. South of Arbitrary Galactic Equatorial Plane. If you want to get a sense of its nearest known Trek-specific neighbour-worlds, I'd maximize the Z-axis reach out to anywhere between 100 and 200 lightyears, and the X-Y range to 40.
http://starmap.whitten.org/index.php?trek_names=1&select_center=1&select_star=15002
http://starmap.whitten.org/index.php?trek_names=1&select_center=1&select_star=15002
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I guess the relevant question is, is Alpha Doradus really outside the RNZ, or do we have the wrong idea about the RNZ? The far side of Romulan space is one of those things that haven't really appeared in canon starmaps, even if those are based on the Charts/Maps/Stellar Cartography continuity.
Timo Saloniemi
Timo Saloniemi
Pre supernova, the RNZ might be different than on Star Charts?
I wonder if the artefact was a Borg cube that may have caused problems in “The Neutral Zone” back in tng season 1
Anything is possible, but to what end? There's decades between that ep and the Artifact falling into Romulan hands. I doubt the ship jung around near Romulus all that time.
The RNZ is the one thing that has never really been portrayed in an onscreen map, save for the short stretch that dates back to "Balance of Terror", plus one or two zoom-ins to an equally indistinct curved line in TNG eps or ST:NEM - and then the floor art at the Romulan Senate, which is the first-ever bit to contradict the previous assumption that the Zone would have monotonic curvature and thus perhaps be a neat ovoid in 3D view.
The ovoid assumption is what the Star Charts are based on, and the additional assumption is that the ovoid Neutral Zone of unknown identity from ST2:TWoK is exactly this RNZ. But none of that is canon. Nor are Okuda/Sternbach maps from, say, the DS9 Tech Manual: onscreen, Romulan space is always just that zoom-in to a stretch of the Zone, or then a lone bird-of-prey symbol or name floating in empty space, unbound by borders or Zones.
PIC is unfortunately unlikely to help us here, what with the RNZ having gone the way of the dodo...
Timo Saloniemi
That's what I wondered at first, but Hugh dates it to "after both our time" by the addition of the spacial trajector.
Also, we might wish to consider the fact that it looks different from the "standard" Borg hardware of the 2260s, inside and out. Perhaps the Borg go through galaxy-wide fashion periods? (Certainly they love to change, from TNG to TNG movies to PIC now; this is pretty natural for a species dependent on assimilation. It's the flashbacks that give us headache there...)
Timo Saloniemi
Timo Saloniemi
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