Star Trek Picard is not Star Trek

[cooleddie74]

Turkana IV and even Nimbus III in earlier generations. You'd think that three galactic powers coming together to create a "Planet of Galactic Peace" would result in a far more peaceful and safe environment than what we saw in TFF.

 

[Lord Garth]

Turkana IV and even Nimbus III in earlier generations. You'd think that three galactic powers coming together to create a "Planet of Galactic Peace" would result in a far more peaceful and safe environment than what we saw in TFF.

Given the powers that were involved with putting together Nimbus III, I have to guess this was some sort of mandate that came as a result of the Organian Peace Treaty, the conditions of admitting Coridan into the Federation, or some other sort of attempt to establish order in the quadrant showing that three enemies can co-exist. And, of course, it showed that they can co-exist but it's not exactly a model of society realizing some great dream.

 

[cooleddie74]

And in the end even Earth and Vulcan aren't idealized dreams given the lingering problems on both throughout the Trek franchise.

 

[Lord Garth]

Double-Post: I just want to add that Picard feels more like himself in Picard than he ever did in any of the TNG Movies. Anyone who can tell me with a straight face that Nemesis Picard is more in character than Picard Picard has forgotten all about the show they profess to be a fan of.

 

[Aragorn]

All the people feigning outrage about Maddox and Hugh dying, was there this sort of vocal disapproval when Robert and Rene died offscreen in Generations?

 

[Spot261]

It would be a very unnatural form of story telling where no one ever died.

 

[fireproof78]

All the people feigning outrage about Maddox and Hugh dying, was there this sort of vocal disapproval when Robert and Rene died offscreen in Generations?

I'm still waiting for the outrage over any number of characters who appeared a couple of times and were killed. But, I've been told that I should only expect complaints about current shows and not to wonder about past shows...I find that highly inconsistent. A character death should matter across the series.

It would be a very unnatural form of story telling where no one ever died.

Apparently that's how TNG did it for the longest time, reading posts here.

 

[Greg Cox]

Apparently that's how TNG did it for the longest time, reading posts here.

Tasha Yar begs to differ.

Meanwhile, Kirk killed his best friend in the second pilot . . . .

 

[fireproof78]

Tasha Yar begs to differ.

Meanwhile, Kirk killed his best friend in the second pilot . . . .

Tasha was obviously...


Oh, wait, that's right. TNG has had death for a while. And torture. It's just in PIC where it is "no longer Trek!"

 

[Aragorn]

I'm still waiting for the outrage over any number of characters who appeared a couple of times and were killed. But, I've been told that I should only expect complaints about current shows and not to wonder about past shows...I find that highly inconsistent. A character death should matter across the series.

There are Trekkies freaking out over giving the Rikers a kid only to have him already be dead when he’s introduced. Could you imagine a “Justice for Ensign Lynch” campaign after First Contact came out?

 

[Greg Cox]

There are Trekkies freaking out over giving the Rikers a kid only to have him already be dead when he’s introduced. Could you imagine a “Justice for Ensign Lynch” campaign after First Contact came out?

Heck, Kestra is named after Deanna's dead sister, who died in childhood, so this is hardly without precedent.

 

[Racefuel]

Virtually every TNG character with the exception of Riker had some form of death or loss in their past which is mentioned or seen at least once, if not more.

Picard- Robert and Rene (Generations), Jack Crusher (close personal friend)

Riker- The lucky one, lost no one (IIRC)
Edit: As @Noname Given corrected, his mother died when he was young

Data- Soong, Lal and Tasha Yar

Beverly Crusher- Jack Crusher

Geordi- His mother

Worf- K'Ehleyr

Troi- her father, Kestra, Andrew (The Child)..

 

[Noname Given]

Virtually every TNG character with the exception of Riker had some form of death or loss in their past which is mentioned or seen at least once, if not more.

Riker- The lucky one, lost no one (IIRC)

^^^
Nope - his mother dies when he was a kid.

 

[Racefuel]

^^^
Nope - his mother dies when he was a kid.

Ah yes, I did forget that

 

[Makarov]

All the people feigning outrage about Maddox and Hugh dying, was there this sort of vocal disapproval when Robert and Rene died offscreen in Generations?

Yes there was, especially from some fans of the episode Family.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Gamma Trianguli VI was a utopia, but at what cost?

I read that in Shatner's voice.

 

[cooleddie74]

What of Landru?

 

[Spot261]

Tasha Yar begs to differ.

Meanwhile, Kirk killed his best friend in the second pilot . . . .

I think that might have been his point?

 

[Anna Yolei]

I don't think modern trek presents a dystopia any more than the previous series did. A dystopia is literally a state that has fallen due to an apocalypse, the rise of a totalitarian regime or where the status quo is injustice and suffering. The Federation depicted in Picard, whilst hawkish, hasn't become a totalitarian regime. Earth is still a paradise and people are still working to better themselves. Picard could openly question the Federation and Starfleet without being arrested. None of this would be possible in a true dystopia

Past trek depicted a society striving to be utopian that wasn't wholly so. Was it better than today? Absolutely. Sure people had their needs met, Humanity had solved a lot of it's problems but there were still cracks in the veneer. The Federation felt it had the right to give away peoples homes to appease the Cardassians, Starfleet was willing to commit genocide against the Borg and overlook the attempted genocide of the Founders. Starfleet officers attempted a military coup, willfully committed a treaty violation that could have resulted in war with the Romulans and you had people like Norah Satie, who sought to defend the Federation through McCarthy-esque tribunals.

Racism was still around in the 24th century, O'brien called the Cardassians 'spoon-heads' and claimed that the 'bloody cardies can't be trusted'. Starfleet were openly distrustful of Odo because he was a shapeshifter. Worf refused to save the life of a Romulan because he hated them. We saw Federation citizens resort to greed, commit murder and commit treason. A utopia, is literally a state that is perfect. Things that I have described above would indicate that the Federation is not a perfect society. However those things do not make a dystopia either. It's just that you can't explore humanity, without exploring it's failings.

If modern trek truly depicted a dystopia and was the 'antithesis' of past Trek, Burnham wouldn't have threatened to mutiny a second time to prevent the Federation from enacting a weapon of mass destruction on the Klingons. Pike wouldn't have accepted a fate worse than death to help save the future. Picard would have told Dahj to go away while he continued to drink wine and feel sorry for himself and so on. Yet we continue to see people do heroic things and exhibit the best of the society that Star Trek depicts.

Star Trek has never been about the perfect, it's always been about the strive to be better than we were yesterday.

Also, don't forget that time B'Elanna recalled when a kid from school put live worms on her sandwich because Klingons eat live worms. That's some vile shit that reminds me of the time kids from my predominantly Hispanic school had to get bussed to the nearby white year-round campus due to flooding and the kids there were using slurs at them. That kind of shit can only be taught at home, and the fact that a kid in the 24th century learned that is proof that prejudice still exists. Hell, even Sisko had to check his priviledge re: Nog in season one.

So yeah, that perfect utopia of flawless people has never existed beyond the senior staff of the Enterprise-D.

 

[Anna Yolei]

Double-Post: I just want to add that Picard feels more like himself in Picard than he ever did in any of the TNG Movies. Anyone who can tell me with a straight face that Nemesis Picard is more in character than Picard Picard has forgotten all about the show they profess to be a fan of.

Big mood.

I can't buy Picard joyriding in the desert, but taking off to save his friend's daughter? Absolutely.