Star Trek Picard is not Star Trek

[fireproof78]

I guess that's the difference for me then. I care little for Blade Runner, or Avatar. I hate Aliens with a passion I rarely bring up because I think it borderline ruined the science fiction film section for the longest time.

I don't care if I've seen it before. Nothing is wholly original. What I do care about is Romulans. And, surprisingnly, I care a little bit about Picard. So, for my money, Picard>Avatar+Blade Runner+Alien and Predator, for good measure.

I'm not playing the comparison game.

 

[Thomas Elliot]

Because, honestly, ignoring DS9 and VOY and ENT is to ignore how the art of Star trek has developed over time.

Action scenes have been a part of Trek for a while:

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I'm a minute in of the video and Garek is cracking jokes while people are being killed. Like I said, action movie-tropes.

 

[fireproof78]

I'm a minute in of the video and Garek is cracking jokes while people are being killed. Like I said, action movie-tropes.

It fits with his character. But, regardless.

It's clear that pretty much every trope will be shot down with no interest. So, I'll respect your point of view, I disagree for many reasons, and move on. Star Trek has increased action for years. Picard is not new, nor is it offensive, in this context.

I'll not treat it differently because it dared have action or tropes in it. Because, if I wanted something original I would be watching a 50 year old franchise.

 

[Thomas Elliot]

Blade Runner is my favorite film of all-time. That having been said, I don't think it needs to be the Final Word on synthetic people who look like flesh-and-blood. Data was on a quest to become more Human. His "children" are actually achieving something he never did. If Picard were following Blade Runner's exact plot beat-by-beat, I'd have a problem with it. But it's not, so I don't.

I agree that it's not the final word on AI. As of the "Impossible Cube" the synthetic angle is getting very interesting, and they're tying it into the Borg. We're seeing that the Borg aren't this evil horde, but victims as well. This is very much in keeping with the tradition of Star Trek's social commentary and challenging our views on things.

But the early episodes of PIC felt too much like BR for my liking, especially BR2049. Especially with the banned-synths angle being very similar to the opening of the original Blade Runner. And the original is so iconic that it took me out of the story of PIC for a bit. I do have some faith that the writers are going to go the extra mile with the concept in PIC and surprise us.

 

[Nerys Myk]

One big criticism that I have of PIC is that early on the references to other well-known sci-fi seemed to be too obvious. It was too much like Blade Runner. I had a similar problem with Star Trek: First Contact and how it seemed to borrow too much from James Cameron's Aliens. PIC itself seemed to be have all these references to other popular and mainstream trends. The feeling was, "oh, I've seen this before, and it was done better there."

Dahj herself seems cliched. A Blade Runner replicant + Marvel's Black Widow. I'd be more impressed if they didn't rely on mainstream action-tropes. But I think the writers and producers were trying to appeal to what's popular at the moment, and superheroes are very popular. So it's like we've got Deckard's Rachel and Wonder Woman in one character.

From a writing standpoint, they're giving audiences something that we've already seen plenty of times. In addition, she's shown fighting and killing characters like nothing. Okay, she's "activated" is the reason. But you have Elnor dispatching people in a similar fashion. It's not that scene by itself but that in conjunction with other scenes and how they treat violence.

Star Trek has been "stealing" from other SF properties since day one. (Forbidden Planet) Yar (originally Macha Hernadez) was inspired by Vasquez from Aliens. Data's positronic brain was lifted from Asimov.

And if you've seen Blade Runner, you don't need to add Black Widow or Wonder Woman to the mix. Pris will do fine.

 

[cooleddie74]

And the idea of energy shields for spacecraft may have come from the 1953 War of the Worlds and even earlier sci-fi representations of protective shielding generated with an energy field.

 

[picardjean-luc]

In First Contact, he even killed a guy who had only been injected with nanoprobes but still had his individuality.

I believe the ensign asked Picard to 'mercy-kill' him as he was in so much agony and he didn't want to be transformed into a drone. He hadn't become a full Borg when Picard euthanized him.

Worf killed Hawk by kicking him off the Enterprise-E but by that time Hawk had become a fully fledged Borg....

 

[fireproof78]

Star Trek has been "stealing" from other SF properties since day one. (Forbidden Planet) Yar (originally Macha Hernadez) was inspired by Vasquez from Aliens. Data's positronic brain was lifted from Asimov.

And if you've seen Blade Runner, you don't need to add Black Widow or Wonder Woman to the mix. Pris will do fine.

Well, we can't have that now can we?

 

[Agony_Boothb]

I agree that it's not the final word on AI. As of the "Impossible Cube" the synthetic angle is getting very interesting, and they're tying it into the Borg. We're seeing that the Borg aren't this evil horde, but victims as well. This is very much in keeping with the tradition of Star Trek's social commentary and challenging our views on things.

But the early episodes of PIC felt too much like BR for my liking, especially BR2049. Especially with the banned-synths angle being very similar to the opening of the original Blade Runner. And the original is so iconic that it took me out of the story of PIC for a bit. I do have some faith that the writers are going to go the extra mile with the concept in PIC and surprise us.

There were times when voyager and enterprise literally recycled plots from previous entries. I'd rather see star treks take on blade runner than star treks take on previous star trek

 

[cooleddie74]

I love ENT and even like "Dawn," but let's be honest here. It was Enemy Mine on a smaller budget. End of story.

 

[Nerys Myk]

There were times when voyager and enterprise literally recycled plots from previous entries. I'd rather see star treks take on blade runner than star treks take on previous star trek

Let's not forget "The Naked Now".

 

[XCV330]

always a bit hard, being original

 

[Nerys Myk]

I love ENT and even like "Dawn," but let's be honest here. It was Enemy Mine on a smaller budget. End of story.

I always thought "Darmok" was a riff on Enemy Mine.

 

[Thomas Elliot]

Star Trek has been "stealing" from other SF properties since day one. (Forbidden Planet) Yar (originally Macha Hernadez) was inspired by Vasquez from Aliens. Data's positronic brain was lifted from Asimov.

And if you've seen Blade Runner, you don't need to add Black Widow or Wonder Woman to the mix. Pris will do fine.

Like Fireproof said, nothing is wholly original, but there's also the way an artist "steals" so that it's not obvious to the audience where you're getting your ideas from.

As far as Tasha Yar and Jenette Vasquez, I've seen both TNG and Aliens, and any similarities they have are not very apparent. I'd be surprised if anyone not educated by wikipedia or ST background information would see Tasha Yar and think, "she's definitely inspired by that Latina soldier in Aliens."

I'm sure hardcore readers of science fiction literature would recognize the Asimov reference, but the majority of American viewers? I doubt it.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

As far as Tasha Yar and Jenette Vasquez, I've seen both TNG and Aliens, and any similarities they have are not very apparent.

That was not by design. Originally, Roddenberry intended to cast someone "exotic" to play Macha Hernandez. It was only when Crosby and Sirtis switched roles that Hernandez became Yar.

 

[Nerys Myk]

As far as Tasha Yar and Jenette Vasquez, I've seen both TNG and Aliens, and any similarities they have are not very apparent. I'd be surprised if anyone not educated by wikipedia or ST background information would see Tasha Yar and be like, "she's definitely inspired by that Latina soldier in Aliens."

If they had kept the character a Latina I'm sure it would have been more obvious. One advantage to casting Crosby was they had to change the character's background. But the point remains.

Like Fireproof said, nothing is wholly original, but there's also the way an artist "steals" so that it's not obvious to the audience where you're getting your ideas from.

Of course, but as you said the obviousness depends on the individual. Not everyone is going to say "Oh like Blade Runner" or even Westworld.

 

[fireproof78]

Like Fireproof said, nothing is wholly original, but there's also the way an artist "steals" so that it's not obvious to the audience where you're getting your ideas from.

In this day and age? Not really, to my mind.

Hell, I went more with Fallout 4 with "Synths" than Bladerunner.

But, as stated Bladerunner is not my cup of tea by a long shot.

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

His backstory, learning about the mystery girl, finding a crew or a team of supporters, searching and finding Data's daughter and having cameo appearances of past Trek characters could've been wrapped up in a two hour movie. Each episode so far is plotting in a snail-like pace. I don't think the series needs 10 hours to reveal the Romulans created the Borg or Data's daughter becoming the new Borg Queen.

I’m sure it could have been condensed into a shorter story, but part of the beauty of a longer length is that more richness of detail could be included.

I suppose the same story could be told by stripping some things away, such as Picard’s Romulan housekeepers (they could have found another way to tell us the information we learned from Picard’s interactions with those two), but they are very good characters that add to the overall tapestry of the show, and deleting them or some other similar detail would diminish from the large sweep of the story.

By the way, why would the Romulans create the Borg but then send their creation to the Delta Quadrant (which is where the Borg came from when we first met them), and how would they do that?

 

[Thomas Elliot]

That was not by design. Originally, Roddenberry intended to cast someone "exotic" to play Macha Hernandez. It was only when Crosby and Sirtis switched roles that Hernandez became Yar.

So, what we got onscreen wasn't much like Vasquez at all.

If they had kept the character a Latina I'm sure it would have been more obvious. One advantage to casting Crosby was they had to change the character's background. But the point remains.

But that doesn't make the point since people are only aware of this when looking at the making-of-details. If you watch Aliens and TNG you still wouldn't make the connection.
If you've watched both Blade Runners and PIC, it's very apparent where the story is coming from.

Of course, but as you said the obviousness depends on the individual. Not everyone is going to say "Oh like Blade Runner" or even Westworld.

This may be true. And even if they did, if they like it, it's going be seen as inspiration. If they don't like it, it's akin to copying.

I think the two BR's are very iconic films and I'd be surprised that more people wouldn't make the connection, especially considering how recent BR2049 came out, and the popularity of genres like SF and comic superheroes are these days.

I remember when Star Wars Attack of the Clones came out and Coruscant looked just like Blade Runner's Los Angeles. I thought that was a bad design choice for the world of Star Wars.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

So, what we got onscreen wasn't much like Vasquez at all.

The point is that Roddenberry's cheap imitation would have been more than obvious had circumstances not intervened.