Spoilers Let’s talk about the destruction of Trek utopia…

[Raptor_Fawr]

As someone who hard parts of his family wiped out in the Holocaust, I'm glad that Chabon has added new words to the Star Trek vocabulary to describe this logic.

Yeah I guess that some words are like a trigger for PTSD-like memories

 

[Hythlodeus]

To better understand this concept, just think about how neo-nazi movements are made up of people who think Hitler was right.

Take a neo-nazi german and an old european jewish and ask both what they think about Hitler: you will get two entirely different versions of the same man.

What the holy motherfucking fuck?

 

[Raptor_Fawr]

What the holy motherfucking fuck?

Is this non-Roddenberrian sentence about my reference to a dark point in human history or because you didn't get my point? I was just saying that even something you can clearly see as a right or wrong situation where everyone has the same opinion you can find people who are on the opposite side.

 

[Hythlodeus]

Is this non-Roddenberrian sentence about my reference to a dark point in human history or because you didn't get my point? I was just saying that even something you can clearly see as a right or wrong situation where everyone has the same opinion you can find people who are on the opposite side.

how the fuck are neo-nazis people? and why would their fucking opinion matter. fuck this shit.

 

[Crazyewok]

When you have utopia, people will try and keep it at any cost and some will even do bad things, even if it risks breaking that utopia.

Except the frontiers, most the federation core planets have that utopian dream.
Most of startrek is about them making choices to keep it or defend it.

In the case of the romulan super nova, the federation obviously thought that going into isolation would protect it.

 

[Raptor_Fawr]

how the fuck are neo-nazis people? and why would their fucking opinion matter. fuck this shit.

I can understand why you say this, but mine was just an exaple, don't take it THAT seriously...
Examples are meant to be a borderline situation in order to be understood by most people

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Maquis were NEVER portrayed as Fascists.

Indeed. Fascism is the extreme right-wing.

The Maquis? Quite the opposite, really...

 

[Hythlodeus]

I can understand why you say this, but mine was just an exaple, don't take it THAT seriously...
Examples are meant to be a borderline situation in order to be understood by most people

Look, I get that you were trying to say "One man's hero is another man's villain" and I'm not dsiagreeing that the Federation can be seen as tyrannical from the Maquis' point of view, but good grief did your post take a really wrong turn.

 

[Raptor_Fawr]

Look, I get that you were trying to say "One man's hero is another man's villain" and I'm not dsiagreeing that the Federation can be seen as tyrannical from the Maquis' point of view, but good grief did your post take a really wrong turn.

I didn't want to hurt anyone feelings I'm sorry... It's the first unequivocable example that came trough my mind.
My country is currently suffering because many right-wing movement are openly fascists and the state not only do nothing to stop them, but sometimes it also encouraged them to keep doing the fascist stuff so yeah, I feel like this problem should not be seen as "we don't have to talk about it"

They exist, unfortunately

 

[Hythlodeus]

I didn't want to hurt anyone feelings I'm sorry... It's the first unequivocable example that came trough my mind.
My country is currently suffering because many right-wing movement are openly fascists and the state not only do nothing to stop them, but sometimes it also encouraged them to keep doing the fascist stuff so yeah, I feel like this problem should not be seen as "we don't have to talk about it"

They exist, unfortunately

almost every country has this problem at the moment, even those that should know better because they've already been there, done that.

 

[Raptor_Fawr]

almost every country has this problem at the moment, even those that should know better because they've already been there, done that.

Mine is one

 

[AlanC9]

People do have a tendency to freak out a bit whenever Nazis are mentioned; see, for example, the recent flap over Chris Matthews' 1940 analogy, even though the strictly military aspects of it were on-point.

 

[Racefuel]

I certainly hope no one thought I was being serious when I suggested the Federation became a fascist regime..it was a joke post..thus the "Would you like to know more?"

 

[Racefuel]

how the fuck are neo-nazis people? and why would their fucking opinion matter. fuck this shit.

Because they are people. People who believe terrible things, yet they didn't just wake up pre-programmed as Neo Nazi's..it's a sequence of events and ideological beliefs that bring them to that point, just like every other political extremist movement..left and right wing.

 

[garakvsneelix]

To better understand this concept, just think about how neo-nazi movements are made up of people who think Hitler was right.

Take a neo-nazi german and an old european jewish and ask both what they think about Hitler: you will get two entirely different versions of the same man.

Godwin's law anyone?

 

[fireproof78]

Because they are people. People who believe terrible things, yet they didn't just wake up pre-programmed as Neo Nazi's..it's a sequence of events and ideological beliefs that bring them to that point, just like every other political extremist movement..left and right wing.

This cannot be overstated. To dehumanize a person, no matter how abhorrent their beliefs are, is to make justifications for treating them worse and worse.

 

[Raptor_Fawr]

Godwin's law anyone?

Take a cardassian occupationist and a Bajorian and ask them what they think about Gul Dukat then.

 

[Hythlodeus]

Take a cardassian occupationist and a Bajorian and ask them what they think about Gul Dukat then.

they probably hate him both

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Take a cardassian occupationist and a Bajorian and ask them what they think about Gul Dukat then.

Forgive me if I don't find the analogies compelling. One group bends the truth to support their opinion. The other is bludgeoned to death by that opinion.

 

[Tuskin38]

Some of the Cardassians were against the occupation, DS9 showed us a few episodes with them.