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Spoilers The Timeless Children grade and discussion thread

How do you rate The Timeless Children?


  • Total voters
    91
Oh and if the timless child has no regeneration limit, does this mean Smith regenerating into Capaldi was always going to happen and the Timelords faked giving him a new cycle?

If Regeneration is a result of Tecteun genetically engineering the elite of Gallifrey (and their descendants) and not a fluke of exposure to the Untempered Schism (either for them, or for the Child), how was River Song able to regenerate? If Vastra's theory was wrong, and it was entirely the efforts of the doctors' on Demons Run who gave her regeneration medically, why don't they do it to everyone, and why did they pick Amy and Rory's child to be their assassin if she wouldn't have special time powers from being exposed to the time vortex, and anyone could just be given them? In fact, what is the Untempered Schism, if not The Thing That Made Gallifrey Gallifrey? If it was just something they did after they created time travel the normal way, why aren't there such things all over the universe as other species mastered time travel?

I don't think I see this one lasting. In my opinion, it's dramaturgical suicide to all but declare that the Doctor's past is, in fact, more infinite, open-ended, and interesting than their future, since the Doctor's future is the thing we're all tuning in to watch. And the fact that the show went out of its way to hedge on this suggests they fear it's a bad idea, too; the Master is our only source for this information, Ruth can be retconned away any number of ways (far future incarnation, 2nd-and-a-half Doctor from deep in the weeds of Season 6b, alternate universe Doctor), and even Gallifrey can be bought back because the Master thoughtfully "killed" everyone in such a way that their bodies are still capable of regenerating ("This is Gallifrey! 'Death' is Time Lord for 'man flu!'"), and you could easily explain their temporary deaths protected them from the Evil Particle. Rassilon comes back in his little Scooty Puff 5000 the Doctor sent him away in, revives the planet, bing, bang, boom.

This season was a bit of an improvement on the last one, but still has the same fundamental flaws (ineffectual Doctor and companions, nihilistic politics, self-conscious avoidance of recent seasons in favor of deep lore and spur-of-the-moment backstory, superficial "wokeness" that isn't really as politically relevant as it thinks (the first black Doctor is a cameo, and the first southeast asian Doctors are extras. Things that could've been milestones were burned off as trivia questions)), but dressed it up by being the worst kind of fannish, an escalating series of "wouldn't it be cool if..." dares with hardly any thematic or character underpinning, and a literal fan-film cameo where a character drops by to deliver portentous exposition after hamming around doing a shallow, half-remembered "greatest-hits" version of himself) without intersecting with the main plot, or even the main sets, like filming an insert scene of Captain Taggert in Tim Allen's garage. It's not enough to drive me away from the show entirely but, boy, is it a letdown after RTD and Moffat.
 
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Oh and if the timless child has no regeneration limit, does this mean Smith regenerating into Capaldi was always going to happen and the Timelords faked giving him a new cycle?
They might not have needed to give him new regenerations, but did they know that?
They certainly triggered the regeneration.
And besides, we know that the Doctor can die, if regeneration is prevented somehow.
And a fleet of Dalek ships glassing a planet is probably going to do just that.
Hell, the Master apparently did it to every single Time Lord somehow.
So, the Trenzalore arc stands in my opinion.

Back to the Time Lords knowing about the Doctors' true nature. I was under the impression only The Division knew about it and kept it from the larger TL society. They are the ultimate secret cabal protecting the secret of their origins, maintaining the lie of universal noblility. Hence the Codex being redacted so heavily. And what couldn't be redacted was cloaked with false information.
What matters is, to most of them the Doctor is just a mediocre Time Lord who failed at the academy, became a huge troublemake after he stole an old TARDIS and ditched every rule of TL they came up with.

Tecteun created the Time Lords by putting a piece of the Timeless Child/future Doctor into an elite class of Gallifreyans. Her fate is unresolved. She could have become Rassilon eventually. Or Omega, though not too familiar with either their backstories.

Anyway.
I liked the episode for the most part.

Oh, and did the Master try to pull a Davros here? Creating the perfect organic/machine creatures hellbent on destroying all life in the universe?
His plan had one flaw, though.
Outside of the Doctor, Tecteun and maybe the most inner circle of the Division, every Timelord body had a limit of 12 regeneration.
So, kill them enough times and eventually they will just stop. Quite a few of them probably had already burned through a few regens.
Would have been funny, if the Cyber Master that go shot as a demonstration had been on his 13th life already and didn't get back up.

Know we know, kinda, how there could be an unknown amount of Doctors in the future with one of them becoming the Curator.
Now that she knows more about her past, she might eventually learn to understand her regeneration ability better and become able to control it.
Now that I think about it, since her ability is the natural, wild version, it would explain why it always seemed so random and other Time Lords had a much tighter control over it.
Makes Romana a bit mad, doesn't it? To burn through a few regens, just to see what she likes best without a real need to.
Unless she is part of the Division and has unlimited regens. That would put a dark twist on her companionship to the Doctor, wouldn't it?
 
A wonderful beginning and some nice episodes in the season, but boy was that 'bleh'.

Maybe it's because I wanted an actual answer to who the other Doctor was and where the fuck is Jack?! You bring him back to be completely useless to the season?

I'm giving it a 6 because I like the idea of The Doctor being timeless and a child forever. But last week they kept showing this cop and this week that was it? Just a fucking mess.

And I have defended the companions when everyone called them pointless. FUCKING POINTLESS. Everyone of them could have died within 5 seconds of this episode and it wouldn't have made a damn difference.
 
Clara only was able to see Hartnell to Smith because the Doctor's mind was wiped of everything before.
I would say The Doctor may have not been named the Doctor until Hartnell Doctor chose the name (as a child or Academy graduate). He didn't go around the universe in a TARDIS until old Hartnell and Susan stole the TARDIS. All his/her previous lives were lived out on Gallifrey unless sent to different planets for a mission or some reason.
 
Know we know, kinda, how there could be an unknown amount of Doctors in the future with one of them becoming the Curator.

We already had that. In "Kill the Moon," the Doctor suggests that for all he knows, he might never run out of regenerations if the astronaut tries to kill him over and over, and in "Hell Bent," Rassilon himself says he doesn't know how many regenerations they gave the Doctor, and was willing to kill him night and day until it stuck.
 
Robert Holmes in 1976: "There's a twelve regeneration limit, y'all!"

Every showrunner since: "Fuuuuuuuuuuck."

Moffat in 2013: "Fixed it for now!"

Chibnall in 2020: flips table "FIXED IT FOREVER, MOTHERFUCKERS!!!!!!"
giphy.gif
 
Some absolutely moronic "revelations" in this one. Hopefully later showrunners retcon most of it. Its an obvious, pathetic attempt by Chibnall to make the show "his", and like everything he's done its mediocre at best. In the end, the fact that The Master admitted that he can hack the Matrix, along with the fact that he's a liar, make this all extremely easy to retcon.

Also, there is no way that The Master could have wiped out all of the Time Lords. he's not some all powerful god, the freaking Daleks couldn't get anywhere close to destroying Galifrey without a time shattering war, and even being "on the inside" its just too ridiculous. It reeks of Chibnall being bitter that Moffat brought the time Lords back, which is stupid because it was a good decision, and one they should have explored more (and hopefully will in the future when the time Lords are inevitably brought back again).

One last thing, and it has to be said, THERE IS NO WAY THAT THE FUCKING JUDOON COULD BREACH THE TARDIS DEFENSES.

Anyway, this was another turd of a season from Chibnall. Hopefully when the next person takes over (in a Series or two, aka 10-15 years from now at Chibnall's pace), I hope most of the shit from this run is retconned or ignored.
 
Okay then.

Still processing. But did want to say one thing.

CONTINUITY IN DOCTOR WHO HAS NEVER MATTERED!!

Okay? I don't agree with much of what went down in that ep. But it was wildly entertaining and did a lot of fan service.

I hae a suspicion the story arc will be over 2 seasons oinstead of 1, why so many things left undone. I mean, next ep, space prison, Judoon and Daleks.

So why did Jack think it was so important to warn the Doctor not to give the lone Cyberman what he wanted? The Doctor gave the lone Cyberman what he wanted and everything turned out fine anyway!
Eh. All her race is really dead.

Also, there's a spare TARDIS out there, somewhere, on Earth, hiding in plain sight. It looks like a tree, but there's a keyhole in it. Nobody's coming back for it, it's just there. Waiting.
Two. The tree on future earth, and the house on present-day earth.
 
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Okay then.

Still processing. But did want to say one thing.

CONTINUITY IN DOCTOR WHO HAS NEVER MATTERED!!

Okay? I don't agree with much of what went down in that ep. But it was wildly entertaining and did a lot of fan service.
Was it entertaining? I mean the Doctor was paralyzed and narrated to for most of it and then lets Obi-Wan drop the bomb as she high-tails it out of there to escape (apparently because The Master is above chasing after her). I mean, if continuity doesn't matter what the hell else did this episode offer?
 
Just finished watching it. It sums up the Chinball era for me: weak.

As for this season? The destination wasn't worth the journey, which itself was mostly a chore to get through. What a damn shame they couldn't have paired Jodie with another show runner. The only thing that would resurrect my interest in the series now is reading that Chinball has been given the boot.
 
Just watched it---still not sure if I liked it or not. I found it really held my interest but after trying to work out what the fuck the plot actually was, I am less pleased with it.

I can say this much---it was better than Orphan 55.
 
Okay then.

Still processing. But did want to say one thing.

CONTINUITY IN DOCTOR WHO HAS NEVER MATTERED!!
Exactly. Every time a fan has a complete freak out, they need to be reminded of this underlying principle. It's been true since the very beginning (remember, he was originally just a man from the far future...).
 
I like that by "solving" one mystery they gave us another. Now we just have to wonder where the Timeless Child came from in the first place.
 
I liked it.

None of the companions died. I thought we were seeing a companion die or leave for good. Oh well.

The very ending. Was that Demon's Run or the Shadow Proclamation base? It looked familiar.

So much to think about and I liked it. Not perfect but good.

7/10
 
The only thing I didn't care for was the Master. His John Simm impression became rather tiresome after awhile.

Also, I really freaking love the new regeneration effect.
 
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