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Star Trek Picard is not Star Trek

I didn't want to go back to the profanities issue in STP. I merely mentioned it as an example of a ridiculous addition (by Chabon, I presume) which has no place in a Star Trek production.

I find none of the arguments in favor of the strong profanity use convincing. I have nothing against such words being used in a Michael Scorsese movie, on the contrary, it's expected, or in any contemporary series taking place in our present time or a similar time and place setting, but profanities such as those uttered by characters in the several STP episodes are unfitting, inappropriate, unconvincing, contrived - to the point they sound irritatingly artificial, and only for the sake of cursing so that they can probably appeal to immature teenagers - and, above all, are as characteristic of Star Trek as porn is. It's actually something that wouldn't be fitting in any science fiction series, for that matter, let alone Star Trek series (I can't recall they ever used any swear words let alone such profanities in all the 9 seasons of the X-Files). This is a substantial mess up - or a fuck up, if you prefer it - on part of the writer(s). Totally unnecessary.

Some may argue that swear words had been used before in Star Trek. Yes, in various forms - as expletives, and in much milder forms, either in Klingon or French, etc. Those are practically nothing compared to the excessive and unnecessary use in the STP episodes, which, compared to the approx. 0.5-1% of the total number of episodes (or episode time) as well as the movies of the aforementioned previous Trek series/movies, extends to at least 30% of total number of STP episodes, which in this case is 10 or 11, so, almost every or every other episode. We've been through this before in the other thread.
 
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Missing the point.

I think you're missing the point or maybe misunderstanding what I'm saying.
I don't have a problem with the swear words in PIC because I understand why the inclusion, among many new things in PIC, are deemed as necessary to make the show resonate with today's audiences. It's not just about swearing to be edgy, but it's also to separate itself from 24+ seasons of the "elevated language" of Star Trek. It was great for it's time because like Longinus said, it felt like a period show from the future. Today though, you have people who may have grown up with watching TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY, and those who caught it on reruns or on Netflix, and so that elevated style of speaking sounds old hat now.

With that said, I think there's legitimate criticisms to be made about the inclusion of more profanity now. Just because I'm fine with it, doesn't mean I think others criticisms of it are invalid.

And as far as the popular defense of Picard saying "merde," I don't remember that scene but I'd imagine that it'd take me out of the story for a brief moment. It's almost like breaking the 4th wall. No one has ever said "shit" before on TNG, but this one time the character says the French equivalent of it, it's as if he knows he's on an American television show and is trying to get around the censors. Might as well wink at the audience too.

There's not much more I can say about that particular topic.
 
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I've written a few 'True Trek' pieces for my website. The extent to which fans will play some very strange games to justify why their opinions are more valid than others never ceases to amaze.
 
OMG can't believe Kurtzman ruined Trek gotta get back to the real optimistic vision of the future

vlcsnap-1956389.jpg
 
With that said, I think there's legitimate criticisms to be made about the inclusion of more profanity now. Just because I'm fine with it, doesn't mean I think others criticisms of it are invalid.
This isn't about invalidating criticisms. This about exploring Trek within its actual context as art, not just because Star Trek. And, art is a reflection of the times. Criticizing Trek for how it uses language is, odd, at best.

OMG can't believe Kurtzman ruined Trek gotta get back to the real optimistic vision of the future

vlcsnap-1956389.jpg
How evolved...

:rolleyes:
 
No one has ever said "shit" before on TNG, but this one time the character says the French equivalent of it, it's as if he knows he's on an American television show and is trying to get around the censors. Might as well wink at the audience too.
That true of a lot if TNG's dialog. It doesn't sound futuristic, just aware that it's a TV show.
 
This isn't about invalidating criticisms. This about exploring Trek within its actual context as art, not just because Star Trek. And, art is a reflection of the times. Criticizing Trek for how it uses language is, odd, at best.


How evolved...

:rolleyes:
That's what it sounds like when you're saying that fans such as myself are arguing solely from an emotional standpoint and insinuating that I want Star Trek to remain stagnant when I've said I'm fine with the dialogue and understand the reasoning behind it, which is the opposite of wanting it to remain stagnant.
 
I'm getting the sense there's a subset of Trek fans who are A-OK with Ryan and Blalock's exploitative costume design for maximum T&A but are now clutching their pearls over profanity on Star Trek.

Tight-fitting costumes, just like pyjama-like uniforms, are a part of the (Trek) future. At least I consider them to be. Swear words in Trek however were never a real component of Star Trek. Here and there you could hear "petaq" in Klingon. Swear words were never a welcome thing for the ears, even when Riker occasionally used "hell" in his angry moments, but those were all relatively rare and milder forms of swear words, which usually served as some form of expression of anger. In STP profanity is used generously as if it's a reality show. Do we really need to hear "fuck" and "shit" in every episode? Will the next "pushing of boundary" be "cocksucker"?
 
That true of a lot if TNG's dialog. It doesn't sound futuristic, just aware that it's a TV show.
If the goal was to emulate Shakespeare then it worked it sounds nothing like actual people talk
That's what it sounds like when you're saying that fans such as myself are arguing solely from an emotional standpoint and insinuating that I want Star Trek to remain stagnant when I've said I'm fine with the dialogue and understand the reasoning behind it, which is the opposite of wanting it to remain stagnant.
With respect that's what the argument "TNG wouldn't have done this" comes across as.
 
Tight-fitting costumes, just like pyjama-like uniforms, are a part of a (Trek) future. At least I consider them to be.
I don't mind Troi's outfits at the time because in hindsight it feels like it was PARTIALLY meant to break up the visual monotony of everyone having uniforms on the bridge. I'm sure sex appeal was the main factor though. However, Troi was supposed to be this exotic character, and along with her accent, it kind of fit. But if someone wants to criticize the cleavage outfits of Troi and say it was sexist or didn't make sense in certain aspects, I'll agree with them.

By the time of 7 of 9, and T'Pol, the eye-candy aspect felt more blatant. So I wasn't okay with that, but then again I wasn't a fan of Voyager or Enterprise either.
 
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