Star Trek Picard is not Star Trek
- Thread starter AnotherGalaxys
- Start date
I'd like to address a few points the OP made.
The first episode made it clear that Picard goes on this adventure in memory of Data. I can't think of a more Trek premise to start things off.
Violence was part of TOS and the movies. Less so with TNG. I think of deformed Vina, Pike's scars, Spock cutting Kirk's chest in Amok Time, the lashing Kirk and Spock received in Bread and Circus's, and the blood and gore in the original crew Star Trek films (Khan's bloody face, Kirk with Peter's bloody handprint on his uniform, Kruge squishing the worm). Not to mention all the fist fights, and shootouts Trek has had. And remember the purple blood floating around in Star Trek VI and how there was a plot WITHIN the Federation to sabotage the Khitomer Conference. Sorry, but that has been there all along.
And just in the first episode the series delved deep into Star Trek canon to pull out things that make for a rich story. Data, Lore, B4, Borg, the Picard Winery, continuing the story with the Romulans. And the TOS Romulans have always spoken and looked like humans but with Vulcan ears and eyebrows. The two TOS Romulan commanders were this way. So from what I can see this series is pulling from the best of the TNG era and delving into the the dark corners of society that previous Trek had ignored. But criminals like we have seen on occasion must come from somewhere. Not everyone is perfect and it is hard to lot remember all the story lines where two side of Starfleet were pitted against each other. The key to the finale of these stories has always been growth. So far there has been nothing in Picard that has not been in keeping with the canon of the TOS through Enterprise era. But they are going darker because they are infiltrating that world. And the exploration of how someone assimilated by the Borg recovers, and is still recovering even 30 years alter is an incredible idea that needs time to unfold.
I've been a Star Trek fan since TWOK came out and like many older fans I have been very disappointed in the new movies and in Discovery. I have not been disappointed by Picard. It very much is Star Trek and I think it would make Gene proud to see Picard back like this. Remember that diversity and inclusion were some of his biggest dreams for our future that he filled Trek with. I see that here. It is right there at the beginning with the Romulans living and working at the winery. It is in the diversity of the cast. It is in the core of the story... that artificial life forms (like Data) are people too and need to be treated as such. I hope the series continue and pushes the boundaries. That the story is more gritty is kind of a bonus.
The first episode made it clear that Picard goes on this adventure in memory of Data. I can't think of a more Trek premise to start things off.
Violence was part of TOS and the movies. Less so with TNG. I think of deformed Vina, Pike's scars, Spock cutting Kirk's chest in Amok Time, the lashing Kirk and Spock received in Bread and Circus's, and the blood and gore in the original crew Star Trek films (Khan's bloody face, Kirk with Peter's bloody handprint on his uniform, Kruge squishing the worm). Not to mention all the fist fights, and shootouts Trek has had. And remember the purple blood floating around in Star Trek VI and how there was a plot WITHIN the Federation to sabotage the Khitomer Conference. Sorry, but that has been there all along.
And just in the first episode the series delved deep into Star Trek canon to pull out things that make for a rich story. Data, Lore, B4, Borg, the Picard Winery, continuing the story with the Romulans. And the TOS Romulans have always spoken and looked like humans but with Vulcan ears and eyebrows. The two TOS Romulan commanders were this way. So from what I can see this series is pulling from the best of the TNG era and delving into the the dark corners of society that previous Trek had ignored. But criminals like we have seen on occasion must come from somewhere. Not everyone is perfect and it is hard to lot remember all the story lines where two side of Starfleet were pitted against each other. The key to the finale of these stories has always been growth. So far there has been nothing in Picard that has not been in keeping with the canon of the TOS through Enterprise era. But they are going darker because they are infiltrating that world. And the exploration of how someone assimilated by the Borg recovers, and is still recovering even 30 years alter is an incredible idea that needs time to unfold.
I've been a Star Trek fan since TWOK came out and like many older fans I have been very disappointed in the new movies and in Discovery. I have not been disappointed by Picard. It very much is Star Trek and I think it would make Gene proud to see Picard back like this. Remember that diversity and inclusion were some of his biggest dreams for our future that he filled Trek with. I see that here. It is right there at the beginning with the Romulans living and working at the winery. It is in the diversity of the cast. It is in the core of the story... that artificial life forms (like Data) are people too and need to be treated as such. I hope the series continue and pushes the boundaries. That the story is more gritty is kind of a bonus.
I was never a huge Voyager fan, and while I certainly can't suggest I really care that much about Icheb's death, I honestly would have had no issue had it been any of the dozens of supporting characters from DS9 (my favorite of the Berman era). I would have been sad, sure. But certainly not as angry as some about Icheb.
Isn't that what DS9 did?
So if you had no problem with DS9 doing it, why should you have a problem if PIC does?
DS9 led up to a war. PIC isn't. This is the aftermath of a tragedy, not leading up to it. So its destination is in the opposite direction. What makes people think DS9 should be the Final Word on the subject?
Why can’t things continuously be tested?
I think the fact we last saw him as a kid also plays into the reaction. We saw him freed from the Borg, saved from his parents, forming a maternal bond with Seven and trying to join Starfleet. It was quite a lot of big moments for the character and now he's dead the first time we see him as an adult (minus Shattered).
The closest comparison I can think of is Ziyal from DS9 but her death was instant and, although sad, at least she didn't suffer a lingering agonising death.
What values have been removed?
Also, aesthetics do not equal values. Otherwise, I could make a strong argument that TMP is not Star Trek, same with TWOK. Actually, TWOK I could do more so because it show a more military bent, completely different uniforms, and acknowledged smoking as still a habit. It was violent, revenge driven, story that was highly unpleasant. How is that "Star Trek" by this limited definition?
If I'm not mistaken, it was only ever published as a text book for film students or something like that, not as a regular book (it actually is on Amazon in "text book binding" for $70), so it's a bit harder to get your hands on. Also I think at some point there were two alternate versions of it. I had to track it down as an online PDF as well. There's a little bit of insight in there as to why they didn't lean into the Dominion War storyline in "Insurrection", which I was always curious about.
No, because in DS9 the vision didn't prevail.
In DS9 they recognized how far they fell. I truly think Sisko and Ross were disgusted at what they had to do.
Back in 1987 - the list was shorter; but this TOS fan (who saw part of the 3rd Season first run in 1969 - I was 6); felt exactly the same way you do with the new Trek - except in my case it was : Star Trek: The Next Generation.
I eventually came to accept TNG for what it was and have mellowed a bit in my 'Trek Purism' (It helped that I was curious about the production and the many myths, and bold faced lies oft repeated by Gene Roddenberry about Star Trek since it first premired on NBC) - and now, I just take a look at a new Trek series, and if I don't care for it (like ST:VOY which I still see as hot garbage to this day); I just don't continue watching it.
So far ST:VOY is the only Trek outing I dropped completely (After "The 37's" - although I did try "Scorpion I & II" (because a friend knew I liked Borg stories - at least up to BoBW); and I saw the ST:VOY Finale <-- IE AGT rehashed, yes Branon Braga seems to have Time Travel on the Brain when he does Trek); but if I felt the same way about anything else, I'd just stop watching.
IMO - ST: D Season 2 - was probably one of the overall Trek TV Franchise's best Seasons since TOS S1. (YMMV)
But yeah, my point? If you don't like something, stop watching and find something you DO like.
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Which is why I haven't seen TNG all the way through-only bits and pieces.
I see your point but that was not my original point.
I am not talking about excuse making. I am talking about learning via trial and error, the capacity to adapt and grow that are the hallmarks of humanity.
People let themselves off the hook all the time. So what? Has nothing to do with my point...
G
Gonzo
Guest
Perhaps he knew he was going to die and dressed accordingly.You know what was on my mind after the episode? Not Icheb's eyeball getting scooped out. But, why, as a science officer, was he wearing red?
Shouldn't he have worn yellow in that case? It's the 24th century, after all.Perhaps he knew he was going to die and dressed accordingly.
G
Gonzo
Guest
Letting people off the hook ends up happening at times and in situations where it shouldn't be.I see your point but that was not my original point.
I am not talking about excuse making. I am talking about learning via trial and error, the capacity to adapt and grow that are the hallmarks of humanity.
People let themselves off the hook all the time. So what? Has nothing to do with my point...
Some errors are done knowing they are wrong with the expectation that they will be let off.
Plus some never learn because they simply don't want to or don't care, the whole trial and error phrase is used too often as an excuse for their actions.
I see too much of it and far too many professional apologists on the internet and TV who do little more than apologise on behalf of those who quite frankly don't give a damn.
I will leave it there though.
Yeah, you're twisting my words far more than I intended. Moving on.Letting people off the hook ends up happening at times and in situations where it shouldn't be.
Some errors are done knowing they are wrong with the expectation that they will be let off.
Plus some never learn because they simply don't want to or don't care, the whole trial and error phrase is used too often as an excuse for their actions.
I see too much of it and far too many professional apologists on the internet and TV who do little more than apologise on behalf of those who quite frankly don't give a damn.
I will leave it there though.
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