Didn't Roddenberry start TNG after TMP?
Spoilers Starship Design in Star Trek: Picard
- Thread starter pst
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No, TNG premiered after ST: The Voyage Home.
Oh...good to know. I was about to look it up because I couldn't remember. I know GR couldn't stand the new uniforms but I thought he had gotten TNG before then.
TVH premiered in theaters in November of 1986 and TNG debuted in September of 1987.
TNG was -obviously- set in an entirely different era. The change was intentional, and quite logical, in order to depict a radical jump forward (of some 80yrs).
Note that TNG often re-used modified movie era uniforms with only minor changes, to indicate pre-TNG eras (eg two decades or so prior, as in YE). They also went out of their way to recreate TOS and TOS movie-styled sets when required, and repeatedly re-used TOS movie props and set pieces; so if anything, they honored, and ensured there would be a visual continuity with, what came before. TNG was certainly not in the habit of needlessly retconning - particularly since so many of the production staff were fans of the original.
Define "vastly"? The TMP onward Klingon uniform elements were either reproduced in spirit or outright re-used, to one extent or another, all the way from early TNG through to DS9 and Voyager, and the makeup style remained similar enough to pass muster - the differences from TMP to Voyager are as easy to explain as the extent to which humans vary from one to another.
Of course, the change from TOS to TMP is harder to explain (though ENT made an admirable go of it), but few would disagree that they needed to be updated at that point...Could we make a similar argument for DSC Klingons? Absolutely! Just, don't end up making them and their ships look like utter sh*te, like they did...
Give me those ships over a bird of prey.
Could we make a similar argument for DSC Klingons? Absolutely! Just, don't end up making them and their ships look like utter sh*te, like they did...
Honestly, I really only see three versions of Klingons: the ones from TOS, the ones from (ENT)-TMP-Voyager, and the ones from DSC. These are the three versions that essentially look nothing like the other.
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The broken records, like you, who keep repeating how 100% non-canon tie-in comics and novels are.
The litverse as is existed between shows is not the same as a tie-in novel/comic that's explicitly connected to the show! So far, several elements from the tie-in stuff was confirmed in PIC: The uniforms, Utopia Planitia building the fleet, the massive evacuation effort, Picard's rank, his XO Raffi, Laris and Zhaban being Tal Shiar and experienced in winemaking, Maddox and Jurati being in love... but if I understand your repeated posts correctly, you still think it has no relevance for the show, right? XD
See above...
I guess Kirsten will know that her own comic exists
Do you seriously think the production team does not know official tie-in material?!
For people who think official technical manuals are 100% irrelevant, I guess it's a total mystery. For those who accept these manuals as tie-in background info treasures, it is mentioned right there.
I'm really confused now - tie-in novels and comics have no connection at all in your mind, but you also don't need canonic spoon-feeding. So if a manual by say Sternbach or Okuda tells you that A is because of B, do you accept that, or do you ignore it? I think it makes sense to see at least 3 levels: Literature with no official connection (like most comics and novels, and games of course), official tie-in stuff with clear connections and more 'validity', and on-screen things that are 100% canon. Why wouldn't PIC Countdown and Last Best Hope be >0% valid/canon, even if it might turn out to be <100% later on? At least till then it's the only other info source we have. A binary viewpoint that declares everything that's not on screen as 0% canon, absolutely meaningless, totally unconnected, and completely invalid, seems very odd to me.
Discovery "Desperate Hours" is official tie-in material, written in conjunction with the folks working on the show. The story is now totally incompatible with the show thanks to season two.
Even if they do know about it, they are under no obligation to acknowledge it or follow it.
Yet is the way it has always been.
The show's elements were used in the comic/novel. Just because the comic was released first doesn't mean it was driving the creative process. The way you're acting, it seems like you think anything that uses elements from the shows should be "canon". Good luck cramming those Gold Key Comics and Bantam novels into the timeline.
Star Trek canon has always been simple and straight forward, official TV/movie productions are canon. Everything else isn't. The people working on the shows are only beholden to what has appeared on the various shows. Even then, that is shaky.
Besides, canon is a poor way to determine if something has value as an experience. There are lots of non-canon novels out there that are every bit as compelling of an experience as what's on screen. I'd name Star Trek: Vanguard (nine books) as better than most of what the TV shows have provided. Then there's "Once a Hero...", DC Comics #19, second volume that is as emotionally compelling as anything seen on our TV screens. Star Trek: Federation by the Reeves-Stevens, is a great alternate take to Star Trek: First Contact, as is "Strangers from the Sky".
I think limiting ones self to canon is self-defeating and has one missing out on a lot of great Star Trek by a lot of talented creators.
This. Those elements weren't created for the tie-ins and then used in the show. They were created for the show and used in the tie-ins.
I’m only being as broken a record as you are being.
I’m not in charge of what’s canon. CBS is. I’m only following their edict. So instead of being all pissy at me, maybe you should direct your hate at the actual people who are dictating what’s canon and what’s not.
Where is that confirmed - the show has them working together - unless I missed a line, they never state that she was a first officer nor that they served together on a Starship (obviously they travelled on Starship as part of their mission). On screen, as far as I'm aware she is presented as an adjunct to Picard but no specific title is ever given to her.
The visuals seem to indicate that they went to Elnor’s planet by shuttle. I’m assuming the tons of shuttles flying to and from the planet were warp-capable, since we saw no starship they could have come from.
I’m wondering if we’re ever going to see a 2399 Federation starship in this show.
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Picard was beamed up after his visit in the flashback. Pretty sure he beamed down too.
That’s true, unless he just beamed there from another location on the planet. He didn’t mention that he was beaming up or down from a ship.
