Ten Best/Worst things about season 2

[Alexander Corrino]

I feel the same way. I liked Lorca better than Pike, even though I loved Pike. Lorca had mystery and nuance. Even though I was disappointed in the direction they chose to go with it....I also appreciated the attempt at a big, mind-blowing twist. So, I didn't hate it. I think they underestimated Lorca's likability with the fans, quite honestly.

I agree. I think they probably expected for everyone to loathe him but I honestly ran into so many people who felt the same way I did - that he was unique and a fresh approach, and everyone was actively looking forward to seeing what new sneaky/dark Lorca shenanigans would arise in the next episode. (I think this is also due to Jason Isaac's WONDERFUL performance, of course. He truly made the character his own.)

I wish they had stuck with him being the "real" Lorca who "just" suffers from a severe case of PTSD. This would have been worth exploring further in a second season, IMO. I love anything Mirror usually (and I can't say I didn't approve of how nice Leather Lorca looked, haha) but this time it kinda rubbed me the wrong way. I related to Lorca quite a bit in various ways and it just felt like a slap across the face to be told "someone like you only fits into the Mirror Unverse". I do think that if I hadn't related to him I would have appreciated the twist a lot more.

 

[Vger23]

I agree. I think they probably expected for everyone to loathe him but I honestly ran into so many people who felt the same way I did - that he was unique and a fresh approach, and everyone was actively looking forward to seeing what new sneaky/dark Lorca shenanigans would arise in the next episode. (I think this is also due to Jason Isaac's WONDERFUL performance, of course. He truly made the character his own.) .

I agree...Isaacs made a character who was most likely supposed to be hated from the start intensely interesting and likable. I also really liked that they (seemingly) were going for a captain who was not just a re-tread of the standard "Starfleet pillar of virtue" that they always had.

I wish they had stuck with him being the "real" Lorca who "just" suffers from a severe case of PTSD. This would have been worth exploring further in a second season, IMO..

Totally agree. In fact, as various fans were theorizing that Lorca was a Section 31 agent or a Mirror bad-guy, I was openly dismissive of them, saying that the writers had created a nuanced, interesting, "shades of gray" captain, and it was nothing more than that.

Lesson learned- don't listen to me or any of my predictions.

I love anything Mirror usually (and I can't say I didn't approve of how nice Leather Lorca looked, haha) but

My wife did a phenomenal job pointing out how much she appreciated Leather Lorca. Continuously!

 

[Alexander Corrino]

I agree...Isaacs made a character who was most likely supposed to be hated from the start intensely interesting and likable. I also really liked that they (seemingly) were going for a captain who was not just a re-tread of the standard "Starfleet pillar of virtue" that they always had.

Me, too. I have never had a captain rise up in my estimation as quickly as Lorca did - they had me right there during his introduction scene in that dark ready room. (I have a chronic eye illness that makes my eyes sensitive to light, and I SO much related to Lorca keeping his ready room and the bridge dark - honestly, on a ship like the Enterprise-D I'd have to wear sunglasses!) He went from nowhere to number 2 on my favorite captains list and he has remained there ever since. I loved that first scene with him standing there behind his desk in the darkness. And then that drawling accent - I loved it. I was actually ready to toss DSC aside because the first two episodes did nothing for me - aside from Georgiou, I really liked her - but then Lorca appeared. He was the one reason why I stuck with the show because I thought "whoa, this is an interesting take on a Starfleet captain, I don't know what they're trying to do here but this is actually GOOD".

My wife did a phenomenal job pointing out how much she appreciated Leather Lorca. Continuously!

I absolutely agree with your wife - Leather Lorca is DEFINITELY something to be appreciated!

 

[fireproof78]

The scene that sold me on Lorca was his trying to save the Gagarin and his visible frustration that they couldn't save it.

 

[Vger23]

The scene that sold me on Lorca was his trying to save the Gagarin and his visible frustration that they couldn't save it.

BINGO!

That was also the scene that had me convinced he wasn't a "bad guy" or "evil agent!"

It was actually a lot of fun back then trying to decipher everything and make guesses as to what was going to happen next.

 

[thribs]

Those bloody drones and the writers completely not understanding Control.

 

[Vger23]

I'm not sure, but I think this could be considered evidence supporting previous speculation of a midseason course correction with regard to season 2's primary arc.

On Disk 4 of the Blu-Ray set, there is a documentary called "The Voyage of Season 2" where one of the writers or producers states that "Obol For Charon" was originally supposed to be a bottle story that was more about the use and impact of the Universal Translator tech on society, and it was supposed to be more of a self-contained bottle show, but they then realized later that they could make the idea of a massive data archive useful to the arc.

To me, that definitely indicates a course shift away from whatever the original idea was. The sphere data became CENTRAL to the "defeat Control" story. There's no way they wouldn't have planned that out if the arc had never changed fairly significantly.

 

[Alan Roi]

I'm not sure, but I think this could be considered evidence supporting previous speculation of a midseason course correction with regard to season 2's primary arc.

On Disk 4 of the Blu-Ray set, there is a documentary called "The Voyage of Season 2" where one of the writers or producers states that "Obol For Charon" was originally supposed to be a bottle story that was more about the use and impact of the Universal Translator tech on society, and it was supposed to be more of a self-contained bottle show, but they then realized later that they could make the idea of a massive data archive useful to the arc.

To me, that definitely indicates a course shift away from whatever the original idea was. The sphere data became CENTRAL to the "defeat Control" story. There's no way they wouldn't have planned that out if the arc had never changed fairly significantly.

The question is though, when was this implemented? Because most of the proponents of a 'course correction' place that 'corse correction' after the firing of the showrunners, and make the claim that changes in direction on the show have to do with problems behind the scenes. And the use of the term 'course correction' is almost entirely to do with something being wrong that has to be corrected. And this would have had to have been ironed down before they had started filming the season, not mid-season as the detractors of Discovery repeatedly claim. And whose to say it changes the arc of the season at all, but merely is a better tool to achieve it? The sphere data is a mcguffin. Mcguffin's don't cause course corrections. It's just as likely they had a different mcguffin in its place prior to the decision to make the sphere data the season's mcguffin.

 

[XCV330]

A lot of corrections were made from Season 1. Better Klingons, better plots like New Eden. Too much to list

Worst: they still have a hard time closing out a season. Final episodes were once again rushed and yet there was too much time spent on goodbye-letters, etc.

The back room chaos is still a problem, hopefully not to return in season 3.

BINGO!

That was also the scene that had me convinced he wasn't a "bad guy" or "evil agent!"

It was actually a lot of fun back then trying to decipher everything and make guesses as to what was going to happen next.

He still could have wanted to save the ship and have been Imperial at heart. They were his allies in a war, and more than that, he did not want to lose.

 

[trash80]

Was late to the DIS party but having binged S1 and 2 in a week...

Best things from S2:

Reno - like an engineer Dr McCoy
SFX - some were stunning
Tilly - refreshing different character, can see she is a bit marmite though
New Eden - like a classic ST story
Klingons - much better in S2
The Enterprise

Worst things:

The Red Angle arc - i feel time travel has been done to death
CONTROL - the universe under mortal threat AGAIN, its highly stressful living in the ST future
S31 - i prefer them when they were virtually unknown, they work better when they are beyond top sekrit
Final space battle - if they had cut this by about a quarter it would have been in my best list but the battle was too confusing and went on too long. Plus its yet another example of ST space warfare just consisting of two fleets staying fairly static and knocking lumps out of each other until one gives up.

Overall though S2 was an 8/10

 

[Amasov]

I was thinking about this today when posting in a Reddit thread.

So far, I think Discovery's biggest problem is that the show suffers from, what I can only refer to as, an identity crisis. It's a show that doesn't seem to know what it wants to be. It's constantly rebooted itself since day one. I realized this when I asked myself how I would explain the concept of the show to someone who hadn't seen it yet other than, "It's a prequel set ten years before TOS."

I know there was some writer/producer shakeup BTS in season 2 and I attribute that to the problems that season had, but, I really hope they have their shit together for season 3 and tell a cohesive story that makes sense and has a nice exploration aspect to it. I want the show to do well because, despite the outlying issues it's had, I do still enjoy it.

 

[Vger23]

I was thinking about this today when posting in a Reddit thread.

So far, I think Discovery's biggest problem is that the show suffers from, what I can only refer to as, an identity crisis. It's a show that doesn't seem to know what it wants to be. It's constantly rebooted itself since day one. I realized this when I asked myself how I would explain the concept of the show to someone who hadn't seen it yet other than, "It's a prequel set ten years before TOS."

I know there was some writer/producer shakeup BTS in season 2 and I attribute that to the problems that season had, but, I really hope they have their shit together for season 3 and tell a cohesive story that makes sense and has a nice exploration aspect to it. I want the show to do well because, despite the outlying issues it's had, I do still enjoy it.

I do agree with this. It's hard for me, because I like the show despite this....but it really is the truth.

I think it says a lot for the potential of the show, though....because it's been enjoyable to me despite these issues. I can't help but think "I love this...but man...can you guys just pull your shit together for one cohesive season??? Imagine what could be done!"

 

[Lord Garth]

I'm re-watching Season 2. One of the lines Pike says in "Brother" reminded me of this board.

"I don't mind dissenting opinions. But give me solutions!"

It matches what I think exactly. And I think the line was meta. I think it was whatever was going on in the story on one level but also the writers telling particular types of fans something on another.

 

[Amasov]

I do agree with this. It's hard for me, because I like the show despite this....but it really is the truth.

I think it says a lot for the potential of the show, though....because it's been enjoyable to me despite these issues. I can't help but think "I love this...but man...can you guys just pull your shit together for one cohesive season??? Imagine what could be done!"

Exactly. I can see the potential the show has and I want it to get there. There are lots of things about it I love. Hell, one of the best things it's done was to (re)introduce us to Captain Pike and get to know him and his era of the Enterprise. I just think the writing needs some cleaning up. There are a lot of things in season 2 that could've been fixed by just adding an extra line of dialogue here and there. It's nothing horrible, honestly.

The writers were hellbent on getting Discovery into the future. Fine. But Control was defeated, thus their trip through the singularity wasn't necessary. No one said a word anywhere. Not one character spoke up and said, "Wait....stop??"

All they needed to do was add a line of dialogue that said, "We're caught in the gravitational pull of the singularity. We can't turn around!" -- which would've been an extremely Star Trek move, to boot. Thus Discovery's entry into the 32nd century is now by accident.

At that point, would the scene at Starfleet HQ be necessary?

The thing that isn't clear to me is, according to the writers, Discovery's trip into the 32nd century was a one-way trip. Why? We know time travel exists by then. Is there any in-universe reason why they need to remain there? We know Control was defeated, so when they arrive is someone going to at least say, "So...can we go back?"

 

[Alan Roi]

I was thinking about this today when posting in a Reddit thread.

So far, I think Discovery's biggest problem is that the show suffers from, what I can only refer to as, an identity crisis. It's a show that doesn't seem to know what it wants to be. It's constantly rebooted itself since day one. I realized this when I asked myself how I would explain the concept of the show to someone who hadn't seen it yet other than, "It's a prequel set ten years before TOS."

I know there was some writer/producer shakeup BTS in season 2 and I attribute that to the problems that season had, but, I really hope they have their shit together for season 3 and tell a cohesive story that makes sense and has a nice exploration aspect to it. I want the show to do well because, despite the outlying issues it's had, I do still enjoy it.

I don't think that Discovery has ever had an identity crisis when compared to any other Star Trek show. And no, it hasn't rebooted itself at all at any point. It has been about its main character from day one and has stuck to that from the first episode of S1 to the last episode of S2. What is the show about? The troubled foster sister of Spock, Star fleet officer, Michael Burnham. It's been as cohesive as any Trek before it, and more cohesive in many ways than any other that came before it because it focuses so much on its lead character.

 

[Alan Roi]

Exactly. I can see the potential the show has and I want it to get there. There are lots of things about it I love. Hell, one of the best things it's done was to (re)introduce us to Captain Pike and get to know him and his era of the Enterprise. I just think the writing needs some cleaning up. There are a lot of things in season 2 that could've been fixed by just adding an extra line of dialogue here and there. It's nothing horrible, honestly.

The writers were hellbent on getting Discovery into the future. Fine. But Control was defeated, thus their trip through the singularity wasn't necessary. No one said a word anywhere. Not one character spoke up and said, "Wait....stop??"

All they needed to do was add a line of dialogue that said, "We're caught in the gravitational pull of the singularity. We can't turn around!" -- which would've been an extremely Star Trek move, to boot. Thus Discovery's entry into the 32nd century is now by accident.

At that point, would the scene at Starfleet HQ be necessary?

The thing that isn't clear to me is, according to the writers, Discovery's trip into the 32nd century was a one-way trip. Why? We know time travel exists by then. Is there any in-universe reason why they need to remain there? We know Control was defeated, so when they arrive is someone going to at least say, "So...can we go back?"

How can they be certain that Control is 100% defeated? Fact is, they can't. It's a computer program sent piecemeal from the future and fragments of it could still exist. This is a case of better safe than sorry, and they all figured that sending the ship to the future was a case of better safe. A number of the crew go as well because they don't want to abandon their fellow crew member. The ending has real emotional resonance compared to an 'accident' because of the crew's commitment to each other has grown that strong since S1. The only identity crisis I see with regards to Discovery is its detractors, who are so committed to finding fault with the show that they are happy to tie themselves into knots in order to find fault with the show and not offer up some basic critical thinking to what they are watching.