Why do you rank TFF highly?

[EnriqueH]

Over the years, I’ve noticed some fans rank The Final Frontier highly on their Trek films rankings.

While I do have an affection for TFF, it is still my least favorite film of the six TOS films.

I’d love to hear from those of you who rank TFF mid to high what it is about the film that puts it over the others.

 

[EnriqueH]

My own personal feeling for TFF is that it’s an ambitious but probably impossible story to execute perfectly (finding God).

Despite the ambitious story, the stakes don’t seem as high as they do in all the other Trek films.

It’s a movie that has its moments but the moments are padded with forced humor. As if the success of IV lulled everyone into a false sense of security

Kirk being my favorite character, I shouldn’t mind that it was Kirk centric, but after four films, I would’ve thought they would’ve integrated the supporting players in a more sophisticated way. But they mostly seemed relegated to “shields up” and “hailing frequencies open” type lines or used as comic relief.

I actually liked Sybok and thought Laurence Luckinbill did a fine job. But Captain Klaa was like a Kruge clone and a dumb one at that. He was never menacing.

Some people love Jerry Goldsmith’s score but it also struck me as below par and, just like the movie, a score with moments of power but also moments of embarrassing silliness. For example, what the hell was that stupid jingle playing when Kirk said he missed his old chair? Awful music.

I did love the jailbreak scene. When Sybil confronts “God”. When Kirk yells “SHOOT HIM!!!!” There are moments I love.

 

[Vger23]

This is a very good question, because I rank TFF highly (above TVH and TUC no less) and I know that is an extremely "unpopular opinion."

I think there are several things at play here for me...I'll try to hit the ones that matter most to me.

1. It reminds me (for better and for worse) of the original TOS series far more than any of the other films. It had the same high-concepts (false Gods, mankind needing their pain, etc), the same plotlines (hijacked Enterprise, perilous journey to a forbidden world, etc), and same humor. It's all there. Even the bad visual fx! Overall, it's the "most Star Trek" out of all the Star Trek films, probably.

2. I love the character stuff. Kirk, Spock and McCoy are the Trek "holy trinity" and this film really focuses on their relationship at this stage of their lives. I think the scenes in the observation lounge (all three) are amongst the best in the series of movies for this reason.

3. This is one of the few Star Trek movies that actually created a sense of wonder and anticipation in me. While the other films are great entertainment, they're really not about exploring the unknown or encountering anything fantastic. It's mostly revenge, time travel tomfoolery, or space politics. This one actually was about discovering something new and, even though that end result was ultimately disappointing, I find that I enjoy the journey enough to give it a pass. The movie stimulated my imagination thoroughly.

4. Unlike you, I find the soundtrack to be fantastic. There are some odd little snippets that don't seem to fit (you point out one), but for the most part, the major pieces are amazing. "The Mountain," "The Barrier," "A Busy Man" etc. are all great...and some of the motifs that carry thoughout the soundtrack are perfect.

5. I love the Sybok character. I think this is actually one of the most interesting, multi-dimensional "guest stars" in all the Trek movies combined. Luckinbill played the role extremely well, and it was a nuanced "shades of gray" antagonist...which I really liked.

6. I thought the cinematography and direction was very good. I think (visual fx aside) this is one of the best looking Trek films. The film had a far more dynamic / modern visual style than the films that preceded it (and most of the films that followed it, barring the Kelvinverse era).

7. Nostalgia admittedly plays a big factor. Summer of 1989 was a very happy time for me in my childhood / early teens. I remember I anticipated this movie more than any other Trek film, and many of my circle of friends were equally as excited. TNG was starting to pick up steam...I was probably at the height of my Trek fandom at this point. Also, I will always remember seeing this movie on opening night with my dad....packed theater and (yes...believe it or not) the crowd was completely engaged and gave it a standing ovation at the end. I remember being shocked to learn later (this was pre-internet days, so I had no opportunity to read people crapping all over it during its run in theaters) that people really disliked it.

So anyway, Star Trek V: The Final Frontier will always be a personal favorite of mine. I don't begrudge or challenge anyone with a differing opinion, as I know that my position on this movie is relatively unique (let's face it, it's objectively not a very good movie)....but I do think it is much more enjoyable and worthy than most other people do. I have gotten a lot of joy through the years from re-watching this installment...and I am very thankful for that.

 

[Armus]

5. I love the Sybok character. I think this is actually one of the most interesting, multi-dimensional "guest stars" in all the Trek movies combined. Luckinbill played the role extremely well, and it was a nuanced "shades of gray" antagonist...which I really liked.

When I think about TFF the moment that remains with me is the "teaser" where Sybok heals the sad bald alien on the desert planet. It's a moment that resonates with me and it probably best captures the spiritual depth that Shatner wanted to explore in the movie. It's well acted and it feels real.

I think Shatner wanted to make the kind of Star Trek film that many wanted to see made. He just couldn't pull it off at the time.

 

[Vger23]

When I think about TFF the moment that remains with me is the "teaser" where Sybok heals the sad bald alien on the desert planet. It's a moment that resonates with me and it probably best captures the spiritual depth that Shatner wanted to explore in the movie. It's well acted and it feels real.

I think Shatner wanted to make the kind of Star Trek film that many wanted to see made. He just couldn't pull it off at the time.

I still wonder, to this day, how you could take the basic ideas in the story and completely re-tool them into something more effective. Almost like "what would a Kelvinverse alternate-reality approach to the story be?"

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I like TFF because of these things:

- the Kirk/Spock/McCoy dynamic

- this bit. As far as I'm concerned, it justifies the whole rest of the movie.

Damn it, Bones, you're a doctor. You know that pain and guilt can't be taken away with a wave of a magic wand. They're the things we carry with us, the things that make us who we are. If we lose them, we lose ourselves. I don't want my pain taken away! I NEED my pain!

- David Warner

 

[EnriqueH]

I really did like that “taking away my pain” theme. Very Star Trek.

 

[STEPhon IT]

I still wonder, to this day, how you could take the basic ideas in the story and completely re-tool them into something more effective.

By having the characters Kirk, Spock, & McCoy questioned their beliefs in God. What do they believe God looks like in their minds, and has one of them lost their faith? There's nothing more fulfilling for me to see a person loses their will on a subject matter and later rebound and come back, but even stronger.
Was the journey to find a myth between brethrens made it more meaningful to themselves? The obstacle should've been extreme and horrendous... like climbing Mt. Everest, I mean, Shatner opened the movie with a fantastic foreshadow which was never fulfilled IMO. Journeying through the Great Barrier was way too easy for me, instead of the Sybok's minions being mesmerized by the Enterprise going through the barrier, I'd rather them all black out and open their eyes on the planet, and Kirk and company gets word the Klingons are also interested in what's in or on the planet. Every character in the movie should've been "all in" on the goal.
It's no secret Vulcans' image is a mythological representation of the devil, could the misinterpreted image had inspired some Vulcans' quest to find a supreme being to find answers? Beliefs, skepticisms, and obstacles should always be lead by the lead characters.

 

[Winterwind]

This is a very good question, because I rank TFF highly (above TVH and TUC no less) and I know that is an extremely "unpopular opinion."

I think there are several things at play here for me...I'll try to hit the ones that matter most to me.

1. It reminds me (for better and for worse) of the original TOS series far more than any of the other films. It had the same high-concepts (false Gods, mankind needing their pain, etc), the same plotlines (hijacked Enterprise, perilous journey to a forbidden world, etc), and same humor. It's all there. Even the bad visual fx! Overall, it's the "most Star Trek" out of all the Star Trek films, probably.

2. I love the character stuff. Kirk, Spock and McCoy are the Trek "holy trinity" and this film really focuses on their relationship at this stage of their lives. I think the scenes in the observation lounge (all three) are amongst the best in the series of movies for this reason.

3. This is one of the few Star Trek movies that actually created a sense of wonder and anticipation in me. While the other films are great entertainment, they're really not about exploring the unknown or encountering anything fantastic. It's mostly revenge, time travel tomfoolery, or space politics. This one actually was about discovering something new and, even though that end result was ultimately disappointing, I find that I enjoy the journey enough to give it a pass. The movie stimulated my imagination thoroughly.

4. Unlike you, I find the soundtrack to be fantastic. There are some odd little snippets that don't seem to fit (you point out one), but for the most part, the major pieces are amazing. "The Mountain," "The Barrier," "A Busy Man" etc. are all great...and some of the motifs that carry thoughout the soundtrack are perfect.

5. I love the Sybok character. I think this is actually one of the most interesting, multi-dimensional "guest stars" in all the Trek movies combined. Luckinbill played the role extremely well, and it was a nuanced "shades of gray" antagonist...which I really liked.

6. I thought the cinematography and direction was very good. I think (visual fx aside) this is one of the best looking Trek films. The film had a far more dynamic / modern visual style than the films that preceded it (and most of the films that followed it, barring the Kelvinverse era).

7. Nostalgia admittedly plays a big factor. Summer of 1989 was a very happy time for me in my childhood / early teens. I remember I anticipated this movie more than any other Trek film, and many of my circle of friends were equally as excited. TNG was starting to pick up steam...I was probably at the height of my Trek fandom at this point. Also, I will always remember seeing this movie on opening night with my dad....packed theater and (yes...believe it or not) the crowd was completely engaged and gave it a standing ovation at the end. I remember being shocked to learn later (this was pre-internet days, so I had no opportunity to read people crapping all over it during its run in theaters) that people really disliked it.

So anyway, Star Trek V: The Final Frontier will always be a personal favorite of mine. I don't begrudge or challenge anyone with a differing opinion, as I know that my position on this movie is relatively unique (let's face it, it's objectively not a very good movie)....but I do think it is much more enjoyable and worthy than most other people do. I have gotten a lot of joy through the years from re-watching this installment...and I am very thankful for that.

Instead of typing out a long reply I'll just quote you and say "^ This".

I rank TFF above TMP and TUC and in my fluctuating Top 4. TVH and TWOK leap frog each other for 1st and TSFS and TFF wrestle for 3rd.

 

[Galileo7]

Sure it needed a better script and special effects too, but I enjoy the following...

• Kirk, Spock & McCoy dynamic
• ambitious attempt of a "full-scale" 1701-A Hangar Deck SET including two Shuttlecrafts
• Enterprise 1701-A Bridge SET that looks so sleek, clean and simple that perhaps this is what TMP Bridge should have been.

 

[EnriqueH]

My favorite bridge/Enterorise interior is easily TMP.

 

[suarezguy]

I do rate it middle of the road (fifth after TWoK, FC, TUC and 09) which, unfortunately, is more of other films being worse than TFF a lot of TFF being good ...

I prefer its humor over that of TVH, TVH felt too desperate. TFF's humor was definitely slapstick but somehow felt more confident as well as enjoyable, like openly doing something kind of new (even though after TVH it actually wasn't new) while TVH felt like like desperate pandering to general audiences, TFF much less tonally out-of-place. The humor of Insurrection also felt much more both annoying and at odds with the story.

I also like its story and drama more than that of TMP (too bloated) or TSfS (too simple and straightforward) or Generations (a much more disappointing and underwhelming presentation of a big theme like turning down pure joy). I very much like the big three and their chemistry, especially that there were conflicts without going overboard, without Kirkm Spock or McCoy being portrayed out-of-character or really in the wrong, and with Sybok was a different kind of antagonist that the film presented as understandable and even appealing. That Sybok was quickly brainwashing people was pretty bad but OTOH Spock and McCoy's past pains and how they reacted were really good.

Also just that it overall had such an ambitious story and themes (the crew betraying Kirk, even though that wasn't so well done, and looking for God and it turning out to be malevolent) and the weirdness of that it was combining deep themes with both action-adventure and slapstick humor (a combination much better done than in Insurrection) provided some entertainment in itself.

 

[Winterwind]

One thing I've always laughed at is the number of people that get upset at Scotty's famous last words before knocking himself out, saying it's disrespectful of the character. I never knew our heroes were infallible and never, for example, stubbed a toe or caught a door frame with their shoulder when walking through.

TFF has a lot to love.

I consider Shatner's directing more cinematic and visually appealing than Nimoy's for example.

 

[F. King Daniel]

The crew were this over-the-hill family who come back to Earth for shore leave and... all hang out together because they've got no-one else. It's kinda sad but kinda adorable.

Sybok was awesome.

Nimbus III is a weird place.

"What does God need with a starship?"

 

[EnriqueH]

I couldn’t help but notice your pain.

My pain?

It runs deep. Share it with me! :Powshhhh::

 

[Tosk]

If I rank it highly, it's thanks to several of the subsequent movies being so thoroughly mediocre.

 

[Tenacity]

Of the thirteen Star Trek movies,
I would rate TFF as number nine.
Between NEM amd TUC.

I do enjoy the camping scenes.

 

[EnriqueH]

Of the thirteen Star Trek movies,
I would rate TFF as number nine.
Between NEM amd TUC.

I do enjoy the camping scenes.

Tell me more.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

I consider Shatner's directing more cinematic and visually appealing than Nimoy's for example.

Yes. Nimoy's direction is very pedestrian. Everything feels "small," even his location shoot in Voyage Home.

Shatner's direction is more open and kinetic, and he even manages to make soundstage shots, like the Observation Lounge, feel big and open.

 

[Vger23]

Yes. Nimoy's direction is very pedestrian. Everything feels "small," even his location shoot in Voyage Home.

Shatner's direction is more open and kinetic, and he even manages to make soundstage shots, like the Observation Lounge, feel big and open.

There was also a lot of indefinable "charm" associated with TFF. Again, kind of like TOS...I can't really describe the formula, but I know it when I see it. TFF had that element in spades. Not sure if that just came from Shatner's energy and positivity (all accounts are that he was a very good director on set), or if it was something else. But, it was definitely there.