It’s called the Theiss Theory of Titillation, not the Theiss Rodenberry Axis of Titillation. And if it’s one thing we know, it’s that if he could have had the credit, Gene would have.
1960's and risqué clothes?
- Thread starter Nakita Akita
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It’s called the Theiss Theory of Titillation, not the Theiss Rodenberry Axis of Titillation. And if it’s one thing we know, it’s that if he could have had the credit, Gene would have.
So, it's okay for a white personal to tell a black person about how it is to be black?
I've got news for you......
Seriously?You should absolutely wear whatever you're comfortable with. Perhaps a switch to another gym was in order?
Okay, why are these outfits slutty?
At first blush, it's not obvious that these are slutty outfits. I note that there is no cleavage showing nor any bare midriffs to be seen (more's the pity). They don't seem overly tight either. Although...
...I can see here that this top layer thing acts like a thong, the under layer is really tight, and that Troi's butt cheeks are separated and accented. Is that why they're slutty? They accent the butt cheeks?
Trio's ass is showing completely.
If she were wear and off, tan, beige/ pinkish outfit, would the question still be there?
Men are visual. This lady is showing a LOT, it's just "covered" and colorful.
I could, paint a nude study from these ladies in these outfits. Instead of painting the vivid colors, simply paint in skin tones.
I would not have objected if whoever the episode was about, had been stretching with any main male character, if he were dressed the same.
Then I'd have been, "cool, in the future men will be forced to pretend exercising in clothing that goes so far up their nether regions to induce Pain is a good thing too."
That’s not what I said, what I said was, I wouldn’t discount a persons opinion or experience based on an identifier.
For example, a family friend lived, worked, got married etc in Malawi. He is white as it’s possible to be. (For the pointless record, his wife and children aren’t.)
My oldest fiend, as close to me as a brother, has rarely left these shores, and when he has, it’s been to European countries (same as me.) He is Afro-Caribbean.
If I wanted to know what it was like to be ‘black’ in Africa, person (a) is my best source (in this example, really I could ask Ghanaian sort-of-in-laws) over asking person (b) because of their experience. On the other hand, if I wanted information on being a Black Londoner (beyond, you know, growing up and living in the exact same environs for most of our lives. Maybe I want to know what it’s like being a Black Briton who works in IT, because he’s way more successful than me xD) then I would ask person (b).
To discount person (a) on the basis of skin colour would be ridiculous. He has a viewpoint and information that is just as true as anything. It may be of less value, but it is not of no value.
And all of that assumes that you can pigeonhole so nicely into ‘blackness’ or ‘whiteness’, which personally I find unpleasant; I do not subscribe to the Grand American Dulux Colour Chart any more than I do Horoscopes or Phrenology. I have way more in common with Idris Elba than I do Donald Trump, or even Danny sodding Dyer.
So yeah, I don’t discount anyone. Unless they are a prick. Then it’s probably safe to do so.
That doesn't show that Roddenberry was a womanizer. That shows that he was a TV producer. Him casting his mistress in a recurring role is what showed he was a womanizer.
I actually saw a couple of cosplayers dressed in those outfits at a Star Trek con in 2016. It was funny because it was a such a deep cut, costume-wise.Okay, why are these outfits slutty?
Excellent point. Lockwood wouldn't have written about Roddenberry forcing a kiss on an auditioning actress if it wasn't over the line. And as I recall in Inside Star Trek: The Real Story, Solow and Justman said that executives made sarcastic comments when they saw Majel Barrett popping up in yet another role wearing a blonde wig. "Well, look who's back again..."
If the honkie in question (and BTW, If one must address me by my ethnicity [which I don't encourage], I prefer "honkie" or even "blue-eyed devil" to the comparitively bland and colorless "white guy," just as I prefer "goy" to "gentile," and "gringo" to "anglo") happens to be the late John Howard Griffin, then his unique experience may provide new insights, regardless of one's own ethnicity.
"When I was younger, and . . . more agile, I was used as a sex object many times; I think it's great fun" -- Roddenberry
Oh, and my usual exercise clothes are the same as my usual work clothes, and my usual vacation clothes: a short-sleeved dress shirt, dress slacks, and leather-soled dress shoes. (Or if I'm exercising on a sheet of ice, figure skates.)
I paint all of the time.
I don't actually like to do nudes. It just gets a little boring. I'm not really interested in art which features people. I do though enjoy the play of shadows, a nude done with a lot of nuance with shadow and light can be interesting. However in a long pose class it seems it almost always set up with some blaring direct overhead lighting.
I did have one interesting long pose nude class, the model was a really pregnant lady.
It was just very different from all of the other models.
I have not seen Males wearing spandex exercise thongs which were riding up their asses so far as to cause physical injury.
Please point me to the episode.
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And?
If a woman chose to wear that of her own free will, would you think her slutty for doing so?
I'm aware of the accusations against Roddenberry. I thought we were talking about actresses on TOS being forced to wear skimpy outfits against their will.
I would think she is unconsciously being dictated by society, or peer pressures to do so.
Which as I pointed out happened to me. And another person posted happened to them with wearing mini-skirts.
You dress the way you are expected to as dictated by society.
Exactly!
And nothing!
Are people trying to say that men wearing risque clothes in TOS was equal to the number of women. That it was fair. That it was equal. That it was the same conditions for men as for women?
Its true that Kirk had his top off many times in TOS and also wore that tight gym gear in one episode. Obviously if Shatner hadn't wanted it to happen it wouldn't have. In fact he probably had it written in the contract that he was the only one to show off his 'manly' chest. But its not the same as him say wearing little shorts and showing his underwear when he bent over.
In the two pilots the women wore pants I think. They also didn't have the ultra fancy hair does and the excessive soft focus.
Vina wore a very short dress but she also wore capris, a princess dress, slave outfit. She was a contrast to the professional woman in professional outfits seen in the rest of 'The Cage'. You can see why Pike might notice her compared to his co-worker ladies on the Enterprise.
Since Mudd's Women was one of the first episodes made perhaps it explain why the men go gah gah over Mudd's Women because when it was made the women on the Enterprise have only just converted to dressing in mini mini skirts and wearing elaborate up-does. Previously they had been dressing professionally.
So initially it would seem that GR, the bean counters at NBC had the women crew members on the Enterprise wearing sensible outfits. Perhaps it was Nichelle and Grace that in fact did instigate the mini-skirts, maybe not dreaming that they'd be that mini-mini. In this way they wouldn't be always outshone by the guest-star of the week.
It ended up the women's uniform probably did bring in a lot of men fans but also made them look unprofessional.
If it was up to me designing the women's uniforms in TOS I would have had the women in short skirts on normal duty (Arial Shaw length though) if they wanted to otherwise pants. We would never get to see anyone's undies. And when on investigative landing parties they would always wear pants and a protective jacket (as in The Cage) and when in engineering they would wear those dreadful all in-ones like the men. I 'd also have the women in a few more command roles but thats not what we're talking about here.
I still think the women looked attractive in pants but I'm not a man.
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Purely in-universe, the minis and tights do not seem to me to be a sensible uniform for exploring strange new worlds in. So a few years back, I started to rationalise TOS female uniform as actually being long sleeved smock tops and (much thicker material than tights) leggings. YUMV.
Of course I still think that the Cage and WNMHGB uniforms are the best.
Of course I still think that the Cage and WNMHGB uniforms are the best.
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And, on the same topic, but a different aspect.
What is the point of criticising things that took place over fifty years ago? Nobody can change that and all that can be acheived is a venting of "moral" indignation and "superiority". Minis (as has already been explained many times in this thread) were at the time seen as liberating to many women. And many women still wear them - so what is the big deal?
We seem happy to accept pretty explicit sex scenes in many drama tv shows now. Did every actress or actor WANT to do that out of their freewill, or was it what they had to do for the sake of their career?
So if we are so outraged then why not direct that outrage to what can be changed now?
What is the point of criticising things that took place over fifty years ago? Nobody can change that and all that can be acheived is a venting of "moral" indignation and "superiority". Minis (as has already been explained many times in this thread) were at the time seen as liberating to many women. And many women still wear them - so what is the big deal?
We seem happy to accept pretty explicit sex scenes in many drama tv shows now. Did every actress or actor WANT to do that out of their freewill, or was it what they had to do for the sake of their career?
So if we are so outraged then why not direct that outrage to what can be changed now?
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???????
The nude is the hardest thing. I am done with landscapes, the geometry is comparatively easy. I assume then you were going for hyperbole with being able to do a nude study from that scene. And the reality is Male sports clothing in Trek is also laughably bad and even less realistic than the women’s. At least that gear there wouldn’t look out of place in a gym at the time.
As I said, google Mister Motivator, check YouTube. Oh, and maybe Lizzy on TV AM
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