Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 1x03 - "The End is the Beginning"

[TheMadCloner]

Thank you... it's too early in the morning for me to be this articulate.

I mean there's lots of things you can tear apart in good movies/shows if you put your heart to it and are actively looking for something to criticize. Why didn't Vader shoot Luke's ship first in ANH? He obviously knows that's the most important target. Why doesn't Thor decapitate Thanos immediately in Infinity War?

There are some things that are done (or not done) for dramatic/practical purposes. As long as it isn't completely stupid or out-of-bounds for that particular universe/franchise I'm OK with accepting it.

 

[iamzod]

Why is it ok to ask Raffi to risk everything but not Geordi or Worf? "They would do anything for me, so I cant ask them." Huh? How did that make sense to you? Ok, so he will ask someone else to risk everything? Why? Because he cares less about them?

In the conversation he says something along the lines of he doesn't want to ask Riker, Worf or LaForge as they will put themselves at risk out of loyalty to him and he doesn't want to go there again, referring to what data did in my opinion without blatantly stating it. Zhaban then replies, "then you need to find help from someone who hates you". He thinks that Raffi won't put herself on the line for him as she doesn't have the same loyalty to him as his old Enterprise Crewmates so is more comfortable asking her for help.

 

[SJGardner]

Somehow I think that the moment Oh got word that Picard is trying to do something stupid and heroic, she'd immediately put Riker, Troi, Geordi and everyone else under surveillance, just in case Picard showed up on their doorsteps. If I were in her shoes, I'd definitely expect Picard to seek them out first based on my experience with him. She doesn't necessarily know that after Data's death, Picard would consciously try to avoid putting his friends in possibly lethal danger for an unauthorized and probably highly illegal personal quest.

 

[dinzy]

Agreed. So much about Raffi's backstory doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Why would she have been kicked out of Starfleet? Just for supporting Picard? I know the show is positioning Starfleet as a quasi-antagonist who had "lost its way", but I can't believe they would "fire" an experienced officer just because her CO resigned in protest.

That feels ridiculously petty and vindictive and I wouldn't buy that as being realistic in a 21st Century organization (without additional justification, let alone Starfleet of the 24th.

Nor do I buy that Jean-Luc would be so callous as to completely cut Raffi out of his life and quite literally never speak to her for all those intervening years. That's just....some really bad writing there and wildly out of character.

And speaking of out of character, also agree that Picard wouldn't like anyone calling him "JL", let alone a subordinate with a professional relationship, no matter how close their friendship.

Why is Raffi bitching about money? What money? As you point out, she should have had countless career options even if you buy the unrealistic dismissal from Starfleet (which I don't.) given her experience. And what's with the class warfare in the 24th Century? Besides, the Vasquez rocks are a very lovely location and would be a perfectly nice place to live....assuming you could just squat in a public park with your massive trailer. How did a public park become a private resident in the socialist, egalitarian future?

Some of the writing here is just really, really off base.

Did we see what happened when she met with the CinC? She could have had an outburst or it could have been a purely political firing. It happens.

She calls Picard "J.L." in private. He could have told her to do so. It doesn't mean she does the same when other subordinates are around.

The money thing was a bit jarring and retconny. But seriously how could you explain "owning" a vineyard which Picard did after Generations. If our society went moneyless, would we raze all the structures and put everyone in the same apartment? I agree on her house. Why would anyone complain about living in a cabin in the desert? She clearly chose to be isolated. There was nothing stopping her from adding to her cubehouse. I guess the angle is that Picard is isolated on the vineyard. It could be just an outburst because he set up the situation that led to her ouster and cut off contact. Plus she was drinking and smoking that snake leave crap.

Trek has a money problem. Or at least a resource allocation problem. It makes no sense. Neither does our current system, even though many believe that it does. It's all arbitrary with threads of logic thrown in to give people fodder to argue that it is just and makes sense. In this show, Dahj lived in what would be a very expensive apartment in Boston, Picard lives on a 10's of millions of dollar vineyard with a couple of roommates, Rios owns a space yacht, etc. This is a show about the future 0.1% wealthy in a society without wealth.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

I am not "pizzin" on anyone. I am asking why any of this makes sense? Why is it ok to ask Raffi to risk everything but not Geordi or Worf? "They would do anything for me, so I cant ask them." Huh? How did that make sense to you? Ok, so he will ask someone else to risk everything? Why? Because he cares less about them? Why is it bad to ask his TNG colleagues but not his Stargazer or future Starfleet colleagues? Then again Kurtzman thought it was totally sensible that a 3rd year cadet Kirk would be made Captain. So, no accounting for taste...or logic.

Riker and Troi have a kid, maybe Worf and Geordi have families as well. Maybe Picard and Crusher are not on speaking terms, maybe Crusher is dead. These characters are basically his family, Picard has already lost one member of that family and I don't think he can bear them putting his lives at risk for him. Raffi on the other hand has a specific skill set for the mission at hand. She got Picard his pilot and now she is tagging along because of her own agenda. Raffi also seems to have no real familial connections as of yet so maybe the fact that she is a loner with no ties makes Picard feel more comfortable with her joining the mission

In reality the reason we aren't seeing these characters teaming up with Picard, is precisely because this isn't meant to be TNG 2.0 or Star Trek: The Next Generation reunion special.

 

[DaveyNY]

Picard didnt say that. He said they would do anything for him. So he cant ask them! Not that Riker, Worf or Geordi are somehow not able to get him a ship. That was not his reason, and it makes no sense anyway. We will see what he says to Riker or others. But what we have seen is already transparently silly. She's vaping her life away and struggling but she knows who all the great Captain for Hire are? So why didnt she get a job with them if that is true?

Cause the Writers didn't want to go in that direction with the story.
There comes a time when one has to just except that what one prefers to be..,
... just isn't going to be.
Especially with the fact that we as viewers, have no say in how a TV show is to be written.

If it bothers you that much, then I would suggest that the only option left is to find something else to watch that doesn't continually disturb you as you watch it.

 

[Tarek71]

In the conversation he says something along the lines of he doesn't want to ask Riker, Worf or LaForge as they will put themselves at risk out of loyalty to him and he doesn't want to go there again, referring to what data did in my opinion without blatantly stating it. Zhaban then replies, "then you need to find help from someone who hates you". He thinks that Raffi won't put herself on the line for him as she doesn't have the same loyalty to him as his old Enterprise Crewmates so is more comfortable asking her for help.

Which makes no sense at all. He would rather someone risk their lives who cares less about him? What? They still risk everything either way. So he cares less about Raffi? If she dies it is not really that painful to him? Wow, he is an ahole.

 

[Gonzo]

Essentially its all or nothing for Raffi as Picard said she has nothing to lose, Rios is in a similar situation but his is self exile.

They went with Picard because there is a sliver of a chance of restoring their careers.

Its a smart move because both of them are under Commodore Oh's radar, she may have fitted Jurati with a tracker as well.

 

[oberth]

Raffle CHOSE to live in Vasquez slums and vape snakeweed all day. She’s pissed Picard had more fortitude than her. Hence the antiques. And the very wine he chooses to bring her.

Raffi is unlikeable right now

you think so? i love her (but that's the kind of love that doesn't care for her 'bio')

 

[DaveyNY]

Which makes no sense at all. He would rather someone risk their lives who cares less about him? What? They still risk everything either way. So he cares less about Raffi? If she dies it is not really that painful to him? Wow, he is an ahole.

He did not expect Raffi to come along and specifically didn't ask her too.
Yer pulling chit outta that hidden place behind you again.

 

[Tarek71]

Cause the Writers didn't want to go in that direction with the story.
There comes a time when one has to just except that what one prefers to be..,
... just isn't going to be.
Especially with the fact that we as viewers, have no say in how a TV show is to be written.

If it bothers you that much, then I would suggest that the only option left is to find something else to watch that doesn't continually disturb you as you watch it.

I think people are allowed to critique without being told to either shut up or go watch something else. Criticism is something you can live with. It is not that painful. The silly story that they told us is that he can ask Stargazer or post TNG staff to help, but not the TNG people. No logical reason is given for this except that they would undoubtedly do it. For no reason that makes any sense, he therefore decides that he cannot ask them. The Federation is on the line, but never mind that! They would do anything for me...so I am sure they would appreciate me risking all that to not ask them, so that I can ask Raffi, who I obviously care alot less about than I do Georgdi!

 

[Bad Thoughts]

I am not "pizzin" on anyone. I am asking why any of this makes sense? Why is it ok to ask Raffi to risk everything but not Geordi or Worf? "They would do anything for me, so I cant ask them." Huh? How did that make sense to you? Ok, so he will ask someone else to risk everything? Why? Because he cares less about them? Why is it bad to ask his TNG colleagues but not his Stargazer or future Starfleet colleagues? Then again Kurtzman thought it was totally sensible that a 3rd year cadet Kirk would be made Captain. So, no accounting for taste...or logic.

Picard would want someone to make a choice out of conscience, not blind loyalty. That is who he has always been.

 

[oberth]

A Vulcan in sunglasses walking through Starfleet grounds and no one thinks anything of it...

The show runners certainly want us to see the Commodore as the main villain but I get the feeling that are laying it on a bit too thick and it could be a misdirect away from someone else in plain sight.

a card board villain

 

[DaveyNY]

you think so? i love her (but that's the kind of love that doesn't care for her 'bio')

There are many guys out there who would give a nut just to be able to call a gorgeous woman like Raffi their significant other.
(addiction and all)

 

[Tarek71]

In the conversation he says something along the lines of he doesn't want to ask Riker, Worf or LaForge as they will put themselves at risk out of loyalty to him and he doesn't want to go there again, referring to what data did in my opinion without blatantly stating it. Zhaban then replies, "then you need to find help from someone who hates you". He thinks that Raffi won't put herself on the line for him as she doesn't have the same loyalty to him as his old Enterprise Crewmates so is more comfortable asking her for help.

That makes no sense at all. So he will ask for help because he knows that even though the Federation is at stake, she will be more likely to let the mission fail than to risk herself for him? So THEREFORE, he should ask HER? Whoa! That makes even less sense than the episode does.

 

[KennyB]

Critiques are fine and debate is welcome, but a LOT of what I see are based on assumptions and some posters obviously missed key details in dialogue while they were taking notes about the IKEA lamp in the background or the toaster oven in the kitchen.

 

[DaveyNY]

I think people are allowed to critique without being told to either shut up or go watch something else. Criticism is something you can live with. It is not that painful. The silly story that they told us is that he can ask Stargazer or post TNG staff to help, but not the TNG people. No logical reason is given for this except that they would undoubtedly do it. For no reason that makes any sense, he therefore decides that he cannot ask them. The Federation is on the line, but never mind that! They would do anything for me...so I am sure they would appreciate me risking all that to not ask them, so that I can ask Raffi, who I obviously care alot less about than I do Georgdi!

If you are going to quote my posts please don't incorrectly elaborate on them.
No where did I say that you had to "shut up".
What I did do was to suggest that if the show isn't to your liking, then perhaps finding something you do like would be a better way to expend your time.

 

[oberth]

So on the ‘Vulcans are synth species’ at this point.

at the point of an ear

 

[KennyB]

That makes no sense at all. So he will ask for help because he knows that even though the Federation is at stake, she will be more likely to let the mission fail than to risk herself for him? So THEREFORE, he should ask HER? Whoa! That makes even less sense than the episode does.

Do you not recall Zhaban asking who he knew that had nothing to lose and access to people with an unregistered ship? THAT's why he picked her. His TNG shipmates have settled into happy lives, to ask them would uproot them from raising families and professional bliss. Raffi had NOTHING to lose and sketchy contacts. Also as pointed out he did not expect her to GO just to provide a pilot.

 

[TheMadCloner]

I think people are allowed to critique without being told to either shut up or go watch something else. Criticism is something you can live with. It is not that painful. The silly story that they told us is that he can ask Stargazer or post TNG staff to help, but not the TNG people. No logical reason is given for this except that they would undoubtedly do it. For no reason that makes any sense, he therefore decides that he cannot ask them. The Federation is on the line, but never mind that! They would do anything for me...so I am sure they would appreciate me risking all that to not ask them, so that I can ask Raffi, who I obviously care alot less about than I do Georgdi!

How would you have handled it then? If you were writing this show, what would you have done?