^ As I was typing my comment I was thinking “one underpowered ship trying to stop the Scimitar is probably a lot more dramatically interesting that having lots of ships pew pew whizzing around”. I must have matured a bit since Nemesis came out (but only a little ).
It's still the best space battle of the franchise for me, and one of the best ones in sci fi full stop.
I could never believe that Picard would completely freeze up knowing his ship and friends were on the line............sure it would be weird killing a clone of yourself but I don't think he'd just sit there listening to the countdown waiting to be saved........very out of character IMHO.
At the time the film came out I too had thought how great it would have been to have a fleet wide battle. I've modified my opinion about that over the years and on later watchings I came to realize that I like it better as is. I read that they originally did want a fleet battle but money got in the way of doing that effectively so they just limited it to the two ships (plus the two Romulan ships briefly which gave us just a taste of a larger battle). But this was a case where cost cutting may have helped the movie. Though I wouldn't mind seeing a fleet vs. fleet battle in some future Star Trek film, like in DS9.
I loved that bit. Nemesis showed the characters having aged and this felt like Picard was at his absolute breaking point after all these years in space, emotionally drained to nothing after being forced to kill the younger self he so wanted to save. The near silence on the bridge when everyone realises Data is dead emphasises the feeling. They've all had enough. It seemed very fitting for the movie hyped as "a generation's final journey"
The battle and ramming were awesome but some of what led to it (slave clone manages to build super-big ship with absolutely nobody knowing, what was Shinzy doing to get all the people to go along with him anyway? It's a little far-fetched, but accepting that the movie still has some moments of greatness. It's still not more than the sum of its parts, when it easily could have been more if some fine tuning was done*, and the fact the teasers and posters all hyped "final journey" probably helped seal its fate even before anyone saw it (someone seeing it and thinking 'Wow, the studio has no faith in this franchise anymore?!" and then sees it and then tells everyone to not see it... I still remember in the theater the only time people got into cheers was when Riker ordered "Defensive Pattern Kirk Epsilon" and that's only because the K-word was said.) * let Shinzon manage to escape his captors and steal a top secret new ship design for one...
I agree. To quote Picard himself, "I see what you could be. ...The man who is Shinzon of Remus and Jean Luc Picard could never exterminate the population of an entire planet! He is better than that!", just as the man who is Jean Luc Picard could never stand idle and let his entire crew die just because someone got stabbed in front of him. Even before Shinzon actually dies, Picard just stands still and passively accepts what comes next.
Sorry, combat vet here.....still not buying it. Picard has seen combat and death before and shell shock usually kicks in AFTER the fight or flight reaction wears off. In the moment you are just trying to make sure your ass survives to see the next day. Just think it was poor writing.
Wasn't Stewart very involved in the story of Nemesis? He seemed to have more and more involvement in the stories after First Contact and the films were lousy. Though I admit liking Nemesis despite it's many, many, many problems.
Fully agreed. This actually resonated with me a lot. I thought it was a very realistic take on characters who had just been through way more than could be processed, and it gave some vulnerability and humanity to Picard. I've always believed he would have snapped out of it in time and still taken care of business, so it doesn't bother me at all. Fully agreed. Upon close examination, most Star Trek, particularly the films, are ridiculous and far-fetched. Doesn't bother me in the slightest.
Same reason that Worf always got his ass kicked, it makes the villians seem more powerful and difficult for our heroes to overcome.
The Kelvin universe Enterprise never did seem powerful. The only few instances where the Enterprise seemed genuinely powerful in any ST production was in the majority of TNG, First Contact and a bit in TOS. The Enterprise otherwise has seemed quite weak..TWOK, TUC, Insurrection, Nemesis (though to be fair it was because they made the Scimitar stupidly overpowered). Nemesis was also really badly conceived and seemed like it was trying to ride the hype of the "OMG CLONES!" from Attack of the Clones of the same year.
Never understood the Nemesis hate. It's no Generations/First Contact, but it beat the crap out of Insurrection as far as I'm concerned. Honestly, with a better director, I think it could have been something special.
Wasn't Insurrection actually an old TNG story concept? If so, it shows..it seemed better for a two parter TV story.
At best, it was an average 1-hour TV story. I would personally put it as a bottom-third 1-hour episode. Extremely forgettable...which is one of the reasons that, as a multi-million dollar major motion picture, it is a horrifically bad Star Trek film. (Ok...maybe "horrifically bad" is a bit much....but it felt good to type it that way)
Love the mental image that's conjured up of Sir Patrick re-watching TNG in preparation for his return to Picard. He's just like the lot of us! I hope he got a chance to rewatch some old broadcasts on VHS. It's *the* way to enjoy the series. /s There is a sadness that sets in once Nemesis is over and the credits begin... it's viscerally different from that of the feeling you get when The Undiscovered Country ends. Cause that film - and final act for TOS - was awesome. As I've probably spammed many times here and elsewhere, the saddest thing about Nemesis is that you can still see an awesome, satisfying, for-the-fans type of final film under that mess somewhere. The missed opportunity is the weakest part of Nemesis. Star Trek: Picard's mere existence makes Nemesis a better watch, because it's no longer 'the end.'
Honestly, I'm not sure there's much of a difference for me between Nemesis and Undiscovered Country. Nemesis is very obviously flawed, but significantly under-rated. The Undiscovered Country is VASTLY over-rated (cheap and messy), at least relative to the fan praise it receives. Due to this, there isn't much separation between the two from my vantage point. YMMV of course. Just one man's admittedly unpopular opinion!