Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 1x02 - "Maps and Legends"

[Yistaan]

Oh, it's been like that since way before Valeris. Heck, the very first full Vulcan we ever saw on STAR TREK, T'Pring in "Amok Time," coolly plotted to get either Kirk or Spock killed just so she could get out of an arranged marriage. And then there's Sarek, who hid a serious heart condition from his wife AND who stopped speaking to his own son for 18 years just because they disagreed over Spock's career choices.

The Vulcans have had their issues since TOS. Just because Spock is admirable, that doesn't mean they all are.

We have a bigger issue where Vulcans like Sarek always insisted their emotions were so much more uncontrollable than humans (said outright in his mind meld with Picard) and that without their logical lifestyle Vulcans would be barbarous psychopaths. The Romulans' warlike nature is said to be proof of this.

Then that all is thrown out the window when we see that Laris and Zhaban are perfectly normal people without needing a strict logic code.

There's a difference between stopping a force that is going from planet to planet killing both Federation and non-Federation citizens alike...and violating the Prime Directive to interfere in a species natural course in life.

That was the prime directive. I suppose that's just another "Get out of jail free" card for writers to use (and ignore) at their discretion.

So it's ok to doom people to natural disaster if they don't have warp yet, but not ok to doom the Romulans because they got warp. Ok...

 

[Kor]

Even Google Assistant knows that the answer to "What's brown and sticky?" is "a stick."

I think we should wait and see what else they reveal about these synths. We might be surprised! Or perhaps not.

Kor

 

[Racefuel]

That was the prime directive. I suppose that's just another "Get out of jail free" card for writers to use (and ignore) at their discretion.

Every time the Prime Directive has been disobeyed or ignored there have been in-universe consequences. Hell even in The Kelvin Timeline Kirk was removed from command, at least temporarily, after violating the prime directive, twice, to save that race at the beginning of Into Darkness and then again to save Spock.

 

[Longinus]

We have a bigger issue where Vulcans like Sarek always insisted their emotions were so much more uncontrollable than humans (said outright in his mind meld with Picard) and that without their logical lifestyle Vulcans would be barbarous psychopaths. The Romulans' warlike nature is said to be proof of this.

Then that all is thrown out the window when we see that Laris and Zhaban are perfectly normal people without needing a strict logic code.

I don't think the point really ever was that Vulcans would naturally be any more violent psychos than humans. But look at our history, we are actually pretty violent psychos!

 

[eschaton]

We know he felt bad about the death of the crystalline entity, who was literally eating people and an enemy, and we know he respected exocomps, and we know he respected the possible sentience of his starship, and we know he felt bad about killing a space cow who threatened his ship and its kid, there are probably more i'm missing.

Saying he "respects all life" is different than saying he thinks that a more advanced lifeform using a less complex one is always slavery.

As far as chatbots, it doesn't matter what we think about them. I'm talking about what picard would think of regarding these synths.

No. But if we know that sentient androids can exist, then it is perfectly reasonable to assume that an android might be sentient.

We can only go by what we see onscreen in this episode. If the writers wanted us to think of the synths as people, and not as automatons, they wouldn't have been stored in a closet, they wouldn't have all looked identical, they wouldn't have all reacted at once, and F-8 wouldn't have been so awkward in conversation. The intent was to show scary machines that were hacked - not people who were being oppressed.

Maybe Picard didn't deal with these synths in particular - did not know their capabilities. Maybe he made the wrong judgement that they were self-aware. Or it could just be that he thought the ban on synths was wrong because he liked Data and was hoping that with time they'd manage to replicate his level of complexity.

 

[B. L.]

I understand why they do it, because shock value, but what is the deal with so much violence?

I watched TNG with my kids, and so naturally my 8 and 6 year olds wanted to watch the new show with us. They are literally shooting giant gaping holes through people now and snapping necks and bones like it's no big deal.

 

[Longinus]

We know he felt bad about the death of the crystalline entity, who was literally eating people and an enemy, and we know he respected exocomps, and we know he respected the possible sentience of his starship, and we know he felt bad about killing a space cow who threatened his ship and its kid, there are probably more i'm missing.

As far as chatbots, it doesn't matter what we think about them. I'm talking about what picard would think of regarding these synths.

You're basically invented the whole thing about syths being slaves though.

 

[Racefuel]

So it's ok to doom people to natural disaster if they don't have warp yet, but not ok to doom the Romulans because they got warp. Ok...

That's how the Prime Directive works. First contact/interference isn't permitted until a species/people achieve warp drive capability. It was mentioned previously in TNG and then the genesis was shown in "Dear Doctor" on Enterprise.

 

[Yistaan]

Every time the Prime Directive has been disobeyed or ignored there have been in-universe consequences. Hell even in The Kelvin Timeline Kirk was removed from command, at least temporarily, after violating the prime directive, twice, to save that race at the beginning of Into Darkness and then again to save Spock.

I'm not arguing that but the whole concept of the Prime Directive becomes absurd when you see it's based purely on whether a species has achieved warp or not.

Nikolai's adopted people: Never did anything wrong, but don't have warp--- Picard: ok, they can die.

Romulan people: Government responsible for massive atrocities, but they have warp--- Picard: NOOO, you must save them!!!!

 

[Jadeb]

I understand why they do it, because shock value, but what is the deal with so much violence?

I watched TNG with my kids, and so naturally my 8 and 6 year olds wanted to watch the new show with us. They are literally shooting giant gaping holes through people now and snapping necks and bones like it's no big deal.

It's kewl and very adult. No one wants to watch gore-lite stuff like the zillion-dollar Marvel franchise.

 

[Racefuel]

I understand why they do it, because shock value, but what is the deal with so much violence?

I watched TNG with my kids, and so naturally my 8 and 6 year olds wanted to watch the new show with us. They are literally shooting giant gaping holes through people now and snapping necks and bones like it's no big deal.

You also are willingly letting them watch a TV-MA show.

It's on you for not doing your research.

 

[B. L.]

You also are willingly letting them watch a TV-MA show.

It's on you for not doing your research.

*wanted*

i never said i let them.

 

[KennyB]

Ok, please quote where in my post I actually said that. I don't even use that kind of language, but per your post you do (I had to X out your words since you actually write these type of slurs all out). Don't take your words and superimpose them on mine. Do it again, and it will be reported.

Here's what I actually said

And that's fine and understandable and I always got the hint and walked away, and rightfully more and more men are learning that too especially as the misdeeds of MeToo predators come to light and men all around the world take extra care not to remotely be like that.

importantly ...what's needed to protect women

What you said and what he said are clearly marked........I don't understand what you will report.

 

[Yistaan]

That's how the Prime Directive works. First contact/interference isn't permitted until a species/people achieve warp drive capability. It was mentioned previously in TNG and then the genesis was shown in "Dear Doctor" on Enterprise.

Yeah I know that. What I'm saying is Picard and the Federation already were categorizing who lives and who dies and this is actually no different. Just because it was always done doesn't mean it was always right.

 

[B. L.]

Seems nobody here is receptive to any criticism. Lots of general apologists for every single thing. Peace

 

[cooleddie74]

Every time the Prime Directive has been disobeyed or ignored there have been in-universe consequences. Hell even in The Kelvin Timeline Kirk was removed from command, at least temporarily, after violating the prime directive, twice, to save that race at the beginning of Into Darkness and then again to save Spock.

Prime Kirk got away with violating it more than a few times without any negative impact on his career. The man would ignore it whenever his gut told him to and still ended up returning from his most famous five-year mission a hero and with a promotion to Admiral.

 

[Longinus]

We can only go by what we see onscreen in this episode. If the writers wanted us to think of the synths as people, and not as automatons, they wouldn't have been stored in a closet, they wouldn't have all looked identical, they wouldn't have all reacted at once, and F-8 wouldn't have been so awkward in conversation. The intent was to show scary machines that were hacked - not people who were being oppressed.

They can be both. Like how the Romulans can be scheming villains and still people who deserve to be rescued. And maybe that is the point?

 

[Yistaan]

What you said and what he said are clearly marked........I don't understand what you will report.

Well, he seemed to be making a connection between his slurs and my post, which I had objections to. But you're right in that the posts are clearly distinct and I'm underestimating the sense of other readers to assume they would be confused. Also, my statement was in regards to a hypothetical future post of his.

As it is, I think I've already said and reinforced all I have to say on that topic and scene, and am caught up in the current prime directive debate on this page.

 

[KennyB]

Seems nobody here is receptive to any criticism. Lots of general apologists for every single thing. Peace

Maybe it is the way you present your "facts" as absolute instead of discussing them. Nah can't be that, must be everyone else.

 

[KennyB]

Well, he seemed to be making a connection between his slurs and my post, which I had objections to. But you're right in that the posts are clearly distinct and I'm underestimating the sense of other readers to assume they would be confused. Also, my statement was in regards to a hypothetical future post of his.

As it is, I think I've already said and reinforced all I have to say on that topic and scene, and am caught up in the current prime directive debate on this page.

OK---just making sure I wasn't missing something!