1960's and risqué clothes?

[T'Bonz]

My mother-in-law told me she wore mini-skirts to work in the 60s. i asked her how did she keep her modesty when bending over, walking up stairs. She said the ladies managed. It was just the fashion at the time.

Pretty much, unless you were super conservative or a granny, you wore the minis. Modesty could be tricky but you learned how to move and reach and bend, etc. My personal trick in the winter at school was to keep my maxi coat (in style the same time that miniskirts/dresses were) on while reaching up into my locker to get my books. To be honest, you were just used to wearing them and you knew what to do.

I don't remember women flashing their undies unless they did it on purpose. And unlike today with thongs, the young ladies wore bikini undies. If you wore a micro-mini, more often than not, it came with panties made of the same material.

Plus back then you did NOT wear a dress/skirt without pantyhose. Some women wore undies beneath them, others did not.

I can't vouch for going up the steps as I wasn't looking at women's butts. I wasn't worried about flashing my undies when going up or down our school steps (our school was two-story) but was worried more about falling down the steps in the platform heels. I almost did once.

 

[jaime]

My mother-in-law told me she wore mini-skirts to work in the 60s. i asked her how did she keep her modesty when bending over, walking up stairs. She said the ladies managed. It was just the fashion at the time. And she was a pretty conservative lady. However it looks crazy to me now. It seems sexist. But at the time it wasn't mandatory that ladies wore mini-skirts to work. They wanted to mostly. So the outfits on Star Trek to a certain extent reflected the fashions at the time it was made.
Also its a TV show and I'm not against seeing attractive looking people on it. Of course on Star Trek TOS the ladies wore mini-mini-skirts with stockings (totally impractical), 7of9 wore massive high-heels, Troi low-cut tops, Kira, Troi and T'Pol all wore skin-tight outfits.
And maybe it would be better if the skin-exposure was a bit better balanced among the sexes. It started off OK in the pilots. We had topless Kirk a bit (sorry it doesn't do it for me) and Sulu prancing down the corridor shirtless but you're right it was mostly the ladies in the crew and guest alien ladies who were scantily clad.
However it doesn't really matter what you are wearing, its mostly when the ladies in the crew scream and cower and say I'm frightened that seems stupid.
I suppose when you see someone in a silver bikini you're first instinct is not to take them seriously. Or a gold toga

I think that’s the thing...fashions of the time. Seven was on screen when the Spice Girls were a thing. Catsuits were a fashion thing, an empowering thing (like the minis in the sixties) and to be honest, I can’t speak to the US, but here in Britain you would see more revealing outfits on a Friday night out clubbing, and even just day to day. Skirts that were about an inch beyond qualifying as a thick belt. Fashion is a funny fickle thing. The difference I suppose is between choosing to wear a thing and being told to in some way.

Oh, and despite being a goth/raver at the time, where the club clothes were even...less...sometimes, it’s normal clubs where the Trek stuff would be fairly tame.

People forget this when railing against Lara Croft too.

 

[Christopher]

To be honest, you were just used to wearing them and you knew what to do.

Not so uncommon in human history. There are, and no doubt have always been, cultures in tropical climes where it's normal for people to go naked, but still with the expectation that women, at least, would position themselves in public in a way that would not overtly display the genitals unless they specifically intended seduction. So preserving modesty while wearing very little is an ancient human skill. (Perhaps men to some extent as well, though that's not as easy to manage.)

As for the TOS uniforms, those were more mini-culottes or "skorts" than miniskirts per se, so there were brief-cut shorts built into the dress, like leotards with skirtlike flaps added to make them look like minidresses. So it wasn't like the women would actually risk flashing their panties or anything. Modern tennis dresses tend to work much the same way, and so did the TV Supergirl's costume before this season.

 

[Nakita Akita]

I think that’s the thing...fashions of the time. Seven was on screen when the Spice Girls were a thing. Catsuits were a fashion thing, an empowering thing (like the minis in the sixties) and to be honest, I can’t speak to the US, but here in Britain you would see more revealing outfits on a Friday night out clubbing, and even just day to day. Skirts that were about an inch beyond qualifying as a thick belt. Fashion is a funny fickle thing. The difference I suppose is between choosing to wear a thing and being told to in some way.

Oh, and despite being a goth/raver at the time, where the club clothes were even...less...sometimes, it’s normal clubs where the Trek stuff would be fairly tame.

People forget this when railing against Lara Croft too.

I guess that's sort of the thing.
Kirk's uniform on the ship is pretty much the same as Picard's.
(Then Next Generation tried to keep with tradition that mini skirts were normal.
They even had men wearing them, BUT not ANY main character males. )
Why is it that only women have """fashion""" assigned to them?
I thought the best part about Next Generation was that in season three everyone had the same uniforms.(for the most part)
As it should be. Otherwise it's not a uniform at all.
I guess I thought when I was young, that some day women would smarten up and not let themselves or choose to be objectified.

 

[Nakita Akita]

What, too risqué?

EPEE is for the less enlightened.
It basically has no rules.

 

[jaime]

I guess that's sort of the thing.
Kirk's uniform on the ship is pretty much the same as Picard's.
(Then Next Generation tried to keep with tradition that mini skirts were normal.
They even had men wearing them, BUT not ANY main character males. )
Why is it that only women have """fashion""" assigned to them?
I thought the best part about Next Generation was that in season three everyone had the same uniforms.(for the most part)
As it should be. Otherwise it's not a uniform at all.
I guess I thought when I was young, that some day women would smarten up and not let themselves or choose to be objectified.

Hey McCoy got a T-Shirt. XD

In all seriousness it’s because Male fashion doesn’t undergo the seismic changes that female fashion does. Once you’ve decided you don’t want buttons and collars and zips, there’s pretty much naff all you can do. The off duty wear? Rikers shirt lives in the memory for a reason. Besides which, does no-one remember the dress uniforms? Not to mention various spandex concoctions, including the series one uniform.
The shows operate in the social setups of the time...look at Uhura office wear uniform in STIV.
I would not deny there was never an element of ‘sex sells’ in there, but it’s not as heavy once you look at what actual people were wearing, and what they thought of what they were wearing at the time.

Guest star costumes and civvies? That’s where the crazy is.

 

[M'Sharak]

EPEE is for the less enlightened.
It basically has no rules.

Okay, then. Épée : too risqué.



Got it.

 

[Ssosmcin]

I think SF, fantasy, adventure and "historical" dramas were often an excuse to show a little skin
Like Jane (Maureen O'Sullivan) in Tarzan and His Mate.

This was Pre-Code so things were a lot less strict. Sadly, after this, Maureen was in a one piece and was more motherly than anything else. Even Johnny's loin cloth was redone to cover more.

 

[Nakita Akita]

This was Pre-Code so things were a lot less strict. Sadly, after this, Maureen was in a one piece and was more motherly than anything else. Even Johnny's loin cloth was redone to cover more.

Well honestly, what she has on is pretty stupid. It my serve a modesty cover but really? Why not have it go between her legs?
I don't think I ever saw this movie or show, but what she has on there would possibly what a person would whip together for the short run, then later they would make it actually functional for what they are attempting to do.

 

[jaime]

Well honestly, what she has on is pretty stupid. It my serve a modesty cover but really? Why not have it go between her legs?
I don't think I ever saw this movie or show, but what she has on there would possibly what a person would whip together for the short run, then later they would make it actually functional for what they are attempting to do.

I think that’s the point. And it does go between her legs.

 

[Christopher]

Well honestly, what she has on is pretty stupid. It my serve a modesty cover but really? Why not have it go between her legs?

Well, there is a pretty famous part of the movie where, depending on which cut you see, she's wearing far, far less.

 

[scotpens]

Well, there is a pretty famous part of the movie where, depending on which cut you see, she's wearing far, far less.

If you mean the nude swimming scene, that was actually an Olympic swimmer named Josephine McKim doubling for Maureen O'Sullivan.

 

[Christopher]

If you mean the nude swimming scene, that was actually an Olympic swimmer named Josephine McKim doubling for Maureen O'Sullivan.

But we're talking about what the character wears and whether it's practical in her in-story circumstances, as opposed to the circumstances of an actress or swimming double in a movie. So the "she" I was referring to was the character of Jane Parker [sic], whom O'Sullivan and McKim were both portraying.

 

[FormerLurker]

Regarding navels, cartoonist Mort Walker ("Beetle Bailey") once remarked about the comic strip censors insisting that he remove navels, and about how he would sometimes draw characters with multiple navels, just to piss off the censors. I understand he also kept a box of trimmed character navels. (I don't recall whether that was in Mort Walker's Private Scrapbook, Lexicon of Comicana, or some other book, but at almost 1:30 in the morning, I'm not going to research it; as soon as my trousers are out of the dryer, I'm going back to bed!)

One comic strip artist, I think it was either Mort Walker or Chic Young (of Blondie fame), got the censors to leave him alone about navels when he drew a case of (Labeled!) navel oranges with all the navels showing. They sent him a note to not go overboard with the ladies' midsections.

As for the TOS uniforms, those were more mini-culottes or "skorts" than miniskirts per se, so there were brief-cut shorts built into the dress, like leotards with skirtlike flaps added to make them look like minidresses. So it wasn't like the women would actually risk flashing their panties or anything. Modern tennis dresses tend to work much the same way, and so did the TV Supergirl's costume before this season.

Another way of doing the same thing is what modern cheerleaders wear with their uniform skirts; a color-coded brief to go over their underpants called 'spankypants'.

 

[Christopher]

One comic strip artist, I think it was either Mort Walker or Chic Young (of Blondie fame), got the censors to leave him alone about navels when he drew a case of (Labeled!) navel oranges with all the navels showing. They sent him a note to not go overboard with the ladies' midsections.

That was Walker. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1984/12/ms-buxley/304234/

 

[Poltargyst]

I guess that's sort of the thing.
Kirk's uniform on the ship is pretty much the same as Picard's.
(Then Next Generation tried to keep with tradition that mini skirts were normal.
They even had men wearing them, BUT not ANY main character males. )
Why is it that only women have """fashion""" assigned to them?
I thought the best part about Next Generation was that in season three everyone had the same uniforms.(for the most part)
As it should be. Otherwise it's not a uniform at all.
I guess I thought when I was young, that some day women would smarten up and not let themselves or choose to be objectified.

What if they are doing it of their own free will and don't consider themselves as being objectified?

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

From the article on Mort Walker:

It treats America's men in uniform with disrespect.

That would be news to all the soldiers, sailors, marines, and airmen who, if memory serves, protested in droves when Stars and Stripes dropped Beetle Bailey.

EPEE is for the less enlightened.
It basically has no rules.

Given that my one brief experience with fencing (at a medieval fair at the university I attended) was with epee hardware and rules, I take exception to that. Epee is for the less anal-retentive. And it is a more realistic simulation of how actual rapier combat works.

As for the TOS uniforms, those were more mini-culottes or "skorts" than miniskirts per se, so there were brief-cut shorts built into the dress, like leotards with skirtlike flaps added to make them look like minidresses. So it wasn't like the women would actually risk flashing their panties or anything.

I would say more like a figure skating dress. Although at the same time, according to the patterns given in FJS's Technical Manual, the "tunic" and "panty" are separate pieces (which, if I remember right, is occasionally also true of skating dresses). I will also note that there are some early episodes of Get Smart, in which 99 wore a culotte dress (the one I'm thinking of had horizontal red and yellow stripes), and at one time, the costume for (then exclusively female) Storybook Land Canal Boat cast members at Disneyland had a skort (far more practical than a skirt, given that the skipper's seat was at approximately seated adult eye level; nowadays, the role, and the costume, are gender-neutral).

 

[Christopher]

Although at the same time, according to the patterns given in FJS's Technical Manual, the "tunic" and "panty" are separate pieces (which, if I remember right, is occasionally also true of skating dresses).

I don't think those were authentic costume designs from the source, more just instructions on how fans could create reasonably accurate replicas.

 

[T'Bonz]

To be honest, I wasn't a fan of the mini, but you couldn't find anything else when I was a teen.

As a kid, I didn't mind as I kind of grew up with it. But I'd have preferred a few more inches on the hemline in my teens. Since it didn't happen, I just dealt.

I was very lucky in that at that age, I looked good and could rock the mini. Many other women didn't look as good in one but had no choice.

So while some liked the style and found it empowering, some of us felt it was a pain in the ass, even if we looked good in it.

As soon as I could wear blue jeans to school (and could talk my father into letting me do so), I said goodbye to skirts and dresses. Blue jeans and t-shirts for the WIN.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Modern tennis dresses tend to work much the same way, and so did the TV Supergirl's costume before this season.

I saw an outtake photo from a location shoot where the wind blows Benoist's skirt way up, and it looked like the blue tunic was a full body suit, and the red skirt was just a skirt.

And that costume was so much better-looking than her new ugly britches, it's unbelievable.