Spoilers Picard 1x1, "Remembrance"

[jaime]

It’s very interesting to see the slow unfolding of cameos/returns. We know who this year, but not when. And we know a little about next year.

All of this episode went by oddly fast, as in I was surprised when I ended and left wanting more as soon as possible, yet there is only the dream sequence Data Cameos. I feel like the Troi’s will be next.

 

[NCC-73515]

I think Hugh is in 2 or 3, Seven in 5, Riker and Troi in 7... or something like that XD

 

[Vger23]

No it’s not.
It is grim dark to have people’s insides on the outsides for a few different reasons but the time you get a few episodes in, and have some of those insides be inside someone else as well. It was like a running theme.

Space 1999 was just as dark as Discovery is, and it was on network TV in the 70s. Disco is hardly grimdark.

Nonsense.
For a start, it’s time and place of production wouldn’t allow it. But if you can find the on screen eviscerated cadavers and lopped off heads, go ahead.

I always think it's interesting when Star Trek fans complain about "grimdark" or violent Star Trek (or dark anything like sets, etc) in the modern era.

Look at what is almost universally considered the best Star Trek / fan favorites:

MOVIES:
Wrath of Khan (A violent revenge story, bloody, murdered corpses, torture, main character death, pew-pew, explosions, people burning to death, jarring and lingering body horror, spaceship battles resulting in horrible graphic deaths, militarized Starfleet, mid-life malaise, zero exploration, etc)
Undiscovered Country (Politics, war, assassination, murder, cover-ups, conspiracy within the beloved and precious Federation to perpetuate conflict on a galactic scale, racism even amongst the main characters, pew-pew, explosions, zero exploration, alien blood by the gallon, and a very dark and dreary color palate)
First Contact (Extremely dark lighting, 1000's dying in a pew-pew space battle, nuclear holocaust on Earth, zombie / body horror, principled main character losing his perspective and crazed for revenge, pew-pew phaser battles, explosions, crew members meeting horrible fates, digging into a dead corpse by hand to extract technology, Starfleet making bureaucratic decisions, zero exploration, etc)
Into Darkness (Admittedly polarizing but with a lot of fan support, here we have non-stop action and destruction, looming war, evil power-hungry Starfleet Admirals, explosions and pew-pew everywhere, conspiracy, paranoia, sabotage, skull-crushing and Section 31)

TELEVISION:
TNG Conspiracy (Often viewed as one of the better early episodes. Claustrophobic atmosphere, paranoia, body horror, blood-and-guts violence, disregard for alien life, etc)
TNG Best of Both Worlds (Unstoppable and irredeemable adversary, pew-pew action pieces, death and destruction, etc)
TNG Yesterday's Enterprise (Klingon War, dark and foreboding lighting throughout, conflict, violent death, pew-pew action, explosions, dreary and joyless, etc)
TNG Chain of Command (A hard-ass captain, looming war, conflict between officers bordering on insubordination, physical and psychological torture, unpleasant nudity, clandestine operations)
DS9 Series (DS9 is a heavy fan-favorite with a very loyal following. Here we have all-out devastating war, a darker visual style, Starfleet battleships, politics and scheming, pew-pew fleet battles, explosions and phaser battles, serialization, melodrama, very little boldly going or exploring, terrorism, Section 31 galore, conspiracy / paranoia / power games at Stafleet's highest levels <Homefront>, and the "top episode" <Pale Moonlight> about moral and ethical ambiguity of a Starfleet Captain)
ENT S3 (Considered by many to be when the series found its legs, this is a turn to serialized post- 9/11 conflict, Earth attacked with millions dead, moral ambiguity, torture, pew-pew, conflict, etc)

Then, if you look at the films, for example, that were more bright and about exploring / alien life / character stuff (TMP, TFF, BEY), those have generally not done well. So...I don't get the disappointment or anger about the look/feel/themes of some of these newer iterations of Trek. The powers that be are giving us exactly what we've told them we want. So, I kind of have to say "give me a break" to that line of complaints.

 

[Jedman67]

You forgot 'Threshold' and 'Tuvix' from Voyager.

 

[jaime]

I always think it's interesting when Star Trek fans complain about "grimdark" or violent Star Trek (or dark anything like sets, etc) in the modern era.

Look at what is almost universally considered the best Star Trek / fan favorites:

MOVIES:
Wrath of Khan (A violent revenge story, bloody, murdered corpses, torture, main character death, pew-pew, explosions, people burning to death, jarring and lingering body horror, spaceship battles resulting in horrible graphic deaths, mid-life malaise, zero exploration, etc)
Undiscovered Country (Politics, war, assassination, murder, cover-ups, conspiracy within the beloved and precious Federation to perpetuate conflict, racism even amongst the main characters, pew-pew, explosions, zero exploration, alien blood by the gallon, and a very dark and dreary color palate)
First Contact (Extremely dark lighting, 1000's dying in a pew-pew space battle, nuclear holocaust on Earth, zombie / body horror, principled main character losing his perspective and crazed for revenge, pew-pew phaser battles, explosions, crew members meeting horrible fates, Starfleet making bureaucratic decisions, zero exploration, etc)
Into Darkness (Admittedly polarizing but with a lot of fan support, here we have non-stop action and destruction, looming war, evil power-hungry Starfleet Admirals, explosions and pew-pew everywhere, conspiracy, paranoia, sabotage, skull-crushing and Section 31)

TELEVISION:
TNG Conspiracy (Often viewed as one of the better early episodes. Claustrophobic atmosphere, paranoia, body horror, blood-and-guts violence, disregard for alien life, etc)
TNG Best of Both Worlds (Unstoppable and irredeemable adversary, pew-pew action pieces, death and destruction, etc)
TNG Yesterday's Enterprise (Klingon War, dark and foreboding lighting throughout, conflict, violent death, pew-pew action, explosions, dreary and joyless, etc)
TNG Chain of Command (A hard-ass captain, looming war, conflict between officers bordering on insubordination, physical and psychological torture, unpleasant nudity, clandestine operations)
DS9 Series (DS9 is a heavy fan-favorite with a very loyal following. Here we have all-out devastating war, a darker visual style, Starfleet battleships, politics and scheming, pew-pew fleet battles, explosions and phaser battles, serialization, melodrama, very little boldly going or exploring, terrorism, conspiracy / paranoia / power games <Homefront>, and the "top episode" <Pale Moonlight> about moral and ethical ambiguity of a Starfleet Captain)
ENT S3 (Considered by many to be when the series found its legs, this is a turn to serialized post- 9/11 conflict, Earth attacked with millions dead, moral ambiguity, torture, pew-pew, conflict, etc)

Then, if you look at the films, for example, that were more bright and about exploring / alien life / character stuff (TMP, TFF, BEY), those have generally not done well. So...I don't get the disappointment or anger about the look/feel/themes of some of these newer iterations of Trek. The powers that be are giving us exactly what we've told them we want. So, I kind of have to say "give me a break" to that line of complaints.

It’s important to realise that ‘grimdark’ is t necessarily just about violence/story elements. Otherwise every soap would be grimdark, and not just Eastenders ;p

 

[Vger23]

It’s important to realise that ‘grimdark’ is t necessarily just about violence/story elements. Otherwise every soap would be grimdark, and not just Eastenders ;p

Ok. But I pointed out examples of story elements (clandestine operations, racism, bureaucracy, interpersonal conflict etc) , violence (starship battles, death on a grand scale, pew-pew, explosions, assassination, murder, etc), themes (paranoia, conspiracy, moral ambiguity, etc), graphic gore (body horror, blood, fatal burns, etc), tone (dark, foreboding, joyless, revenge-orientated, etc), and even examples of overall physical lighting that all illustrated my point.

What did I miss?

EDIT: I'm not making a judgement...I'm just saying that the data available to the writers and producers would lead them to believe that they are giving us exactly what we want based on what has been overwhelmingly popular.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

I think Hugh is in 2 or 3, Seven in 5, Riker and Troi in 7... or something like that XD

If you're going by IMDB, even at this point, those numbers could be way off. IMDB listed Spock in 1 episode of DSC S2 even after the season started, later updated to 10.

 

[picardjean-luc]

She also has a sister working in a Romulan/Borg cube.

Well, Data holds five Queen cards, which I take as a theory that there are five Dahj-type androids out there, likely mimicking the different Soong-type androids like Data, Lore, B4, etc.

Just like Brent, Isa Briones will play multiple 'Dahjs'.

So we'll encounter 'Dahj' with different personalities (some are good, others are evil or mentally incompetent) but only one will have Data-like abilities and capabilities

 

[picardjean-luc]

I think Hugh is in 2 or 3, Seven in 5, Riker and Troi in 7... or something like that XD

Isa Briones is supposed to be in 8 episodes, so we haven't seen the last of Dahj and perhaps we'll see multiple 'Dahjs.'

I guess we'll find out soon

 

[picardjean-luc]

The owls are not what they seem.

"All this has happened before, and all this will happen again."
Definitely getting this vibe after a marathon watch of 'Children of Mars/Remembrance,' 'new BSG,' and 'Terminator: Salvation' in a single day .

 

[Hythlodeus]

Well, Data holds five Queen cards, which I take as a theory that there are five Dahj-type androids out there, likely mimicking the different Soong-type androids like Data, Lore, B4, etc.

Just like Brent, Isa Briones will play multiple 'Dahjs'.

So we'll encounter 'Dahj' with different personalities (some are good, others are evil or mentally incompetent) but only one will have Data-like abilities and capabilities

There are four lights, erm two Dahjs, with the other one being Putin's favourite ski resort, Soji

 

[Alan Roi]

Nonsense.
For a start, it’s time and place of production wouldn’t allow it. But if you can find the on screen eviscerated cadavers and lopped off heads, go ahead.

I'd recommend watching the episode Dragon's Domain and get back to me.

 

[AgentCoop]

Then, if you look at the films, for example, that were more bright and about exploring / alien life / character stuff (TMP, TFF, BEY), those have generally not done well. So...I don't get the disappointment or anger about the look/feel/themes of some of these newer iterations of Trek. The powers that be are giving us exactly what we've told them we want. So, I kind of have to say "give me a break" to that line of complaints.

TMP, TFF and BEY are not as popular, this is true. But it's not because they're more focused on character and exploration. It's because they are, for the most part, not very good films.

 

[Vger23]

TMP, TFF and BEY are not as popular, this is true. But it's not because they're more focused on character and exploration. It's because they are, for the most part, not very good films.

I didn't say anything differently. I simply said that if you're an executive and you're looking at data about "what works" and "what doesn't" in the Trek franchise, this is what you're going to conclude.

 

[Tuskin38]

Isa Briones is supposed to be in 8 episodes, so we haven't seen the last of Dahj and perhaps we'll see multiple 'Dahjs.'

I guess we'll find out soon

Did you miss her twin sister at the end of Episode 1?

Sure, the ongoing morality of aiding an enemy will very much likely be a season long issue not an issut that this episode was centered around, only referring to. But there is a clear antagonist in this episode, and it needs to be defeated in order for the story of the episode to be resolved.

This is a 10 hour story, not every piece will be in place in part 1.

 

[Noname Given]

Dahj's replicator. It's nice to see that late 24th century vanilla milkshakes still look like modern fast food milkshakes.

It's ALL plant based

If you're going by IMDB, even at this point, those numbers could be way off. IMDB listed Spock in 1 episode of DSC S2 even after the season started, later updated to 10.

Spock was in episode 1 of ST: D S2 - it was a flashback and he was 6 - 7 years old, but the character of Spock was there.

 

[Doc Mugatu]

I voted "excellent" as I was extremely impressed. CBS All-Access is definitely doing a better job with the Star Trek franchise than Abrams/Paramount!

3 quick possible nits: 1) what happened to Picard's brother, sister-in-law, and nephew?; 2) the ninja assassins seemed more than a little bit inept.; 3) Starfleet's objection to rescuing the Romulans struck me as odd since they had previously extended similar aid to the Klingon empire.

Beyond that everything was lovely. I was greatly satisfied with how they explained away B4. Where one of my big complaints against Disney produced Star Wars is they completely "null and Voided" the optimistic ending of "Return of the Jedi." CBS actually pulled off the opposite. They, through a little mild retconning, actually improved and smoothed things out.

A consistent feature of Star Trek has also been their embrace of the passage of time and use it to their advantage. They did it with The Original Series when The Motion Picture came out and acknowledged their ageing all the way through to "The Undiscovered Country." Again in contrast to how Disney handled Star Wars wherein Abrams painfully tried to turn back the clock and give us his version of the original trilogy. Where Star Trek embraces it's age, Disney SW is like a bunch of aging relatives wearing toupees and girdles while doing Botox in order to convince the non-discerning they are still their younger incarnations.

Not trusting Picard's Romulan staff. So far they strike me as the classic swerve where at some point it is revealed they have ulterior motives in working for Jean-Luc. Could be good or bad. They could be there as secret bodyguards or be on the look out for synthetics who may try to contact him.

In watching this, and figuring the odd conspiracy shaping up in "Picard," perhaps the Klingon moon Praxis exploding and the Romulan sun going supernova were related?

The Romulans occupying a beat up Borg cube has me deeply intrigued! So far episode 1 is pretty much all you could hope for in a series premier.

Of course we also know there will be a season 2 as Patrick Stewart asked Whoopi Goldberg, during his most recent appearance on The View to be a part of it, and she accepted.

Again, season 1, episode 1 is a solid "A+!" Episode 2 "Maps and Legends" looks to be equally brilliant.

 

[Jedman67]

1) what happened to Picard's brother, sister-in-law, and nephew?

They died in Generations

 

[Doc Mugatu]

They died in Generations

Thank you, good sir! Funny, this past year I revisited all the Star Trek movies except "Generations."

Update: only Jean-Luc's brother, Robert, and nephew, Rene, died in the fire. His sister-in-law, Marie Picard, survived.

 

[Doc Mugatu]

TMP, TFF and BEY are not as popular, this is true. But it's not because they're more focused on character and exploration. It's because they are, for the most part, not very good films.

I disagree in terms of The Motion Picture. It was a pretty good sized crowd showed up to see it's re-release to theaters a few months back. A far bigger crowd than other Fathom Events re-releases I've been to.