In Star Trek's future on earth, could you just be lazy all day if you wanted to?

[matthunter]

Bear in mind that the reason a lot of people don't "enrich themselves" is lack of opportunity. I'd love to travel the world and explore other cultures, but I have to work to live and travel is expensive.

In the Federation? Beam over to Vietnam first thing, explore the sights, use my holocam.

Want to dabble in science? You can probably replicate a decent lab free.

Education is free. OK top flight stuff like Starfleet Academy or that writing school Jake applied to is restricted by intake/student quality, but anyone could take courses in whatever interests them.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I was just remembering in Lower Decks TNG, when the server from 10-forward that the ensigns were hanging out with was envied for the fact that he doesn't feel the intimidation from Riker that they do. I always wondered what it was that the servers/bartenders are motivated by.

Getting to fly around on the Flagship of Starfleet and not have to worry about beaming down to hostile planets or firing photon torpedoes sounds pretty worthwhile to me.

 

[Shawnster]

There was a counter-culture, though. Damn hippies. At least in the 23rd Century.

SPOCK: If you will state your purpose and your objectives, perhaps we can arrive at a mutual understanding.
SEVRIN: If you understand One, you know our purpose.
SPOCK: I would prefer that you state it.
SEVRIN: We turn our backs on confusion and seek the beginning.
SPOCK: What is your destination?
SEVRIN: The planet Eden.
KIRK: That planet it is a myth.
SEVRIN: And we protest against being harassed, pursued, attacked, seized and transported here against our wishes.
ADAM: Right, brother.
SEVRIN: We do not recognise Federation regulations nor the existence of hostilities. We recognise no authority save that within ourselves.

KIRK: Well. But they've rejected all that and all that this technology provides. And they seek the primitive.
SPOCK: There are many who are uncomfortable with what we have created. It is almost a biological rebellion. A profound revulsion against the planned communities, the programming, the sterilised, artfully balanced atmospheres. They hunger for an Eden where spring comes.

So, at least in the 23rd and presumably the 24th century, too, there are people who turn their back on the homogenized, pasteurized, sterilized world of the Federation. They may live in it (until they decide to leave), but they are not actively contributing to it.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Wasn't there a fundamentalist / primitive colony that Sisko & O'Brien accidentally got stranded on?

Sounds like a perfect planet for these types of folks to migrate to.

 

[at Quark's]

Wasn't there a fundamentalist / primitive colony that Sisko & O'Brien accidentally got stranded on?

Sounds like a perfect planet for these types of folks to migrate to.

Yes, and there's also the Essentialist movement, the group that tried to disrupt life on Risa when Worf was there on holiday. Then, there is Eddington who has some scathing remarks about the Federation (whether he actually believes them himself or he is just trying to convince himself he is fighting the Noble Fight is a different matter). So it would seem there are at least several groups who are not quite happy with Federation Paradise.

 

[Nyotarules]

That robot cop in Star Trek 2009 always creeped me out. I mean damn, they looked like they were meant to instill fear in the average citizen rather than making them feel safe. Who the hell wants to live in a society where they are afraid of the people that are supposed to protect them?

Every black mother in the UK, USA and Canada gives their black son 'the police speech'. ....

As for Life on Earth on Star Trek, Picard's 'son' seem to do nothing but doss around all day or climb mountains. He did not have a regular job and he lived on a colony that seemed a bit rough. Maybe his mother's replicator gave him all the basic stuff he needed. If resources are almost inifinite in society people will not feel threatened by other people who just want to collect their welfare/social security benefits aka Basic citzenship income.
Plus in DISC Owosekun was raised in a luddite village, whether 20th century based or 19th we do not know so maybe they expected payment for their services.

 

[Voodoowoman2]

Let's say you were someone living on earth in that time, and you were just really lazy and didn't want to do anything. Since you don't need money for anything, and you get everything for free, could you just lay around all day and hang out in a holodeck doing whatever?

I know there would be a lot of people who would want to pursue their creative and scientific endeavors on earth and a good number would want to join starfleet to explore the galaxy, but I can imagine there would also be a large amount of people who just don't wanna do anything at all and would be perfectly happy just being lazy all day. Would the rest of society frown upon those people for not contributing anything?

The economics of the Federation is an easy fantasy. Economics is tougher than Warp drive. It's easy to paste comments into scripts saying everything is free. Nothing is free. The tax burden must be crushing. What Starships are built with volunteers?
The Socialist experiment was tried at the Jamestown colony. 20% of the people worked and about 80% wouldn't. They starved. Finally some sense was brought to the situation. Every head of household was given a plot of land and told to work it. Suddenly food was plentiful.
Roddenberrys economic fantasies won't go away because figuring out the economics of 'everything is Drew's is impossible.

 

[Nyotarules]

The economics of the Federation is an easy fantasy. Economics is tougher than Warp drive. It's easy to paste comments into scripts saying everything is free. Nothing is free. The tax burden must be crushing. What Starships are built with volunteers?
The Socialist experiment was tried at the Jamestown colony. 20% of the people worked and about 80% wouldn't. They starved. Finally some sense was brought to the situation. Every head of household was given a plot of land and told to work it. Suddenly food was plentiful.
Roddenberrys economic fantasies won't go away because figuring out the economics of 'everything is Drew's is impossible.

Its a fictional TV show to entertain, its not an economic treatise. The folks of Jamestown did not have replicators or antibiotics and were illegal migrants...

 

[XCV330]

I think in our own lifetime, if we're REALLY lucky and survive ourselves at this crux, the basic questions of what to do and what matters will become important. In a post scarcity environment where AI and automation does most of the necessary AND luxury work, what are people good for? We have to accept at that point the intrinsic value of our selves and our fellow human beings.

different science fiction universe, but there is a scene in the book (and miniseries) The Martian Chronicles where one of the last humans alive meets one of the ancient Martians in a vision. The human can't wrap his head around the values of the Martian culture that humanity had destroyed and had never, with the exception or one or two individuals, understood.

The Martian explained they valued ""Live life for itself -- derive pleasure from the gift of pure being. Life is its own answer."

If you have everything you could reasonably want, do you care if your neighbor has a job? Some will. I will maintain that people can be at their best, and worst, when they are competitive. It drives us to do new things, try new ideas, go places we would not go, otherwise. It's the reason we're here and not still napping flint axes to defend from hyenas.

So currency must exist, even if it is not to cover the basics or even most luxuries. Property must exist because people like having their stuff. Creepy McCreepo isn't going to be allowed to just walk in your apartment and go through your underwear drawer and then decide he'll have spare bedroom too. What would the currency be? Maybe some sort of social currency. Good actions bring perks, or honorifics or just really help when trying to impress a potential mate. We will always be animals. Striving must be part of it.

 

[Longinus]

The economics of the Federation is an easy fantasy. Economics is tougher than Warp drive. It's easy to paste comments into scripts saying everything is free. Nothing is free. The tax burden must be crushing. What Starships are built with volunteers?
The Socialist experiment was tried at the Jamestown colony. 20% of the people worked and about 80% wouldn't. They starved. Finally some sense was brought to the situation. Every head of household was given a plot of land and told to work it. Suddenly food was plentiful.
Roddenberrys economic fantasies won't go away because figuring out the economics of 'everything is Drew's is impossible.

Your thinking is very limited. Money is a social construct, it is not really real. Yes, some work must be done, but with sufficient automation most people indeed can just do whatever the fuck they want, including doing nothing, and the society will work just fine.

We will face this sooner than you expect in real life, robots will do most jobs, and humans as workers will become obsolete. Se we better start developing values that see humans as more than just necessary tools for keep the infrastructure running, because we won't be needed for that for long.

 

[Unimatrix Q]

"Remembrance" may have actually explained a bit more about the economy of the Federation.

Spoiler

As we see in the scene with Dahj and her boyfriend in her apartment at the beginning, her home replicator doesn't have a lot of variety of dishes and drinks to choose from.

So i guess patterns for replicated goods and food items, may be something civilian users on Federation planets have to create for themselves or maybe buy somewhere.

 

[Qonundrum]

There was a counter-culture, though. Damn hippies. At least in the 23rd Century.

SPOCK: If you will state your purpose and your objectives, perhaps we can arrive at a mutual understanding.
SEVRIN: If you understand One, you know our purpose.
SPOCK: I would prefer that you state it.
SEVRIN: We turn our backs on confusion and seek the beginning.
SPOCK: What is your destination?
SEVRIN: The planet Eden.
KIRK: That planet it is a myth.
SEVRIN: And we protest against being harassed, pursued, attacked, seized and transported here against our wishes.
ADAM: Right, brother.
SEVRIN: We do not recognise Federation regulations nor the existence of hostilities. We recognise no authority save that within ourselves.

KIRK: Well. But they've rejected all that and all that this technology provides. And they seek the primitive.
SPOCK: There are many who are uncomfortable with what we have created. It is almost a biological rebellion. A profound revulsion against the planned communities, the programming, the sterilised, artfully balanced atmospheres. They hunger for an Eden where spring comes.

So, at least in the 23rd and presumably the 24th century, too, there are people who turn their back on the homogenized, pasteurized, sterilized world of the Federation. They may live in it (until they decide to leave), but they are not actively contributing to it.

The one problem is, Sevrin's nuts. He claims they don't recognize the existence of hostilities when it's shown time and again plenty of hostile agencies exist. The Federation would be tolerant of a colony that didn't want it* but how far would Sevrin get with the Romulans or Klingons? That's right, he wouldn't at all. Apart from a handful of Romulans and Klingons, of which his merry group needed one or two of them to get around such an obvious narrative issue...

* so, apart from stealing a space cruiser, what else is going on and couldn't they just return the shuttle when done? There's far more going on with Sevrin that would justify a bigger ending than "Okay, we'll leave you on some primitive planet like how we sorta did for Khan. We'll see how you're doing later if you'd like. Have fun!"

 

[Danja]

People need to feel engaged. A job is part of one's identity as a person.

 

[Shawnster]

The one problem is, Sevrin's nuts.

I do not see the relevance of his mental state for sake of the discussion. Severin's group were people who willingly dropped out of society. Until they started their trip to Eden, they were still living in the Federation. It appears their movement had gone on long enough that these people did leech off of the Federation. They were not contributing members of society beyond their small commune or group, yet they took full advantage of everything the Federation had to offer them.

And when the Federation could no longer offer them what they wanted, they stole a spacecraft and set out to find their Eden.

 

[Longinus]

People need to feel engaged. A job is part of one's identity as a person.

And in that case financial motivation is unnecessary.

 

[Longinus]

"Remembrance" may have actually explained a bit more about the economy of the Federation.

Spoiler

As we see in the scene with Dahj and her boyfriend in her apartment at the beginning, her home replicator doesn't have a lot of variety of dishes and drinks to choose from.

So i guess patterns for replicated goods and food items, may be something civilian users on Federation planets have to create for themselves or maybe buy somewhere.

Spoiler

I think it was more about her taste. Those were the replicator patterns she had installed, because those are things she liked. It is unnecessary to have your replicators hard drive filled with all sort of recipes you will never use.

 

[Unimatrix Q]

Spoiler

I think it was more about her taste. Those were the replicator patterns she had installed, because those are things she liked. It is unnecessary to have your replicators hard drive filled with all sort of recipes you will never use.

I don't understand why anyone would delete food items from a big database of replicator patterns. Especially if someone could easily create a list of favorite dishes and drinks, without the need to erase anything.

That's why i doubt that is was simply a matter of taste.

 

[Longinus]

I don't understand why anyone would delete food items from a big datebase of replicator patterns. Especially if someone could easily create a list of favorite dishes and drinks, without the need to erase anything.

That's why i doubt that is was simply a matter of taste.

It depends on how it works. Perhaps it comes with no recipes installed, and you need to download the ones you want.

 

[Unimatrix Q]

It depends on how it works. Perhaps it comes with no recipes installed, and you need to download the ones you want.

But if patterns are free to download, wouldn't it make the most sense to download all of them or as much as you can to be prepared for all occasions...?

 

[Longinus]

But if patterns are free to download, wouldn't it make the most sense to download all of them or as much as you can to be prepared for all occasions...?

Why bother? Also, there might be a limit of data capacity even at their tech level. One could imagine that replicator patterns are hella data intensive as they need molecular level information.