Well, good luck with that.
First Impressions
- Thread starter Damian
- Start date
I'm now past the episode "Red Angel" and have just 4 left of the 2nd season. I was a bit surprised at the identity of the red angel, though in retrospect it makes a lot of sense.
I was a bit surprised at the back story for Lt. Airiam. I have to admit before "Project Daedalus" I didn't give much thought to her character. I thought she was either robotic or cybernetic but never thought much beyond that. I hadn't realized she was a human originally. It was a sad way for her to meet her end. But I have to admit I was sort of glad to see there was no sudden happy ending there. In some of the Discovery episodes there was a sudden about face. It appeared a character was going to die when all of a sudden there was some last minute change and they live on.
Not everything has a happy ending. It was a bit of real life added to the mix. I also just read the actress is still on the show and actually plays Airiam's replacement. I guess they can get away with that since she looks quite a bit different then the character. It's nice to see her as a human too (yes, she is a bit pleasing on the eyes I'll admit--I'm always a sucker for a blonde with pretty eyes
). I'll be interested to see how that all plays out.
So far I've liked season 2 more than season 1. I like some of the character interactions and I've warmed to Pike and Spock. I'll be interested to see the Enterprise return (I assume Pike and Spock will return to the Enterprise at some point).
4 more left.
I was a bit surprised at the back story for Lt. Airiam. I have to admit before "Project Daedalus" I didn't give much thought to her character. I thought she was either robotic or cybernetic but never thought much beyond that. I hadn't realized she was a human originally. It was a sad way for her to meet her end. But I have to admit I was sort of glad to see there was no sudden happy ending there. In some of the Discovery episodes there was a sudden about face. It appeared a character was going to die when all of a sudden there was some last minute change and they live on.
Not everything has a happy ending. It was a bit of real life added to the mix. I also just read the actress is still on the show and actually plays Airiam's replacement. I guess they can get away with that since she looks quite a bit different then the character. It's nice to see her as a human too (yes, she is a bit pleasing on the eyes I'll admit--I'm always a sucker for a blonde with pretty eyes
). I'll be interested to see how that all plays out.So far I've liked season 2 more than season 1. I like some of the character interactions and I've warmed to Pike and Spock. I'll be interested to see the Enterprise return (I assume Pike and Spock will return to the Enterprise at some point).
4 more left.
I'm now done with season 2. Call me shocked at how it ended. I'll be interested to see where season 3 takes us.
It does answer my one complaint about how Discovery can exist in the prime timeline though. It's a bit clunky, after all, sooooo many people are aware of Discovery that someone has to spill the beans at some point. BUT, I guess it can work in a larger perspective in story. Perhaps individuals talked about it but it just didn't appear in the shows that take place later (obviously).
I wasn't a huge fan of the Enterprise bridge set. I can see them paying homage to the original series sets and all but it just didn't really work for me. Like I noted before with set designs it's a personal bugaboo. I think if they tried to reflect the set more as it appeared in "The Cage", with the uniforms more similar to "The Cage"---instead of reflecting the 5YM period under Kirk---I could have got behind it more. I didn't expect it to duplicate the TV series (a la "In a Mirror Darkly"---which I've noted numerous times before is great for a nostalgia episode but probably wouldn't work for a weekly series), but I wish the homage had been paid to "The Cage" era as opposed to the late 2260's era.
You could tell Captain Pike was haunted by his future as well. I liked Mount's portrayal there. He does the selfless thing--the thing we expect Starfleet Captains to do--what Captain Kirk did for the people of Veridian IV (giving up paradise to save a people he never knew). And he tries to keep his chin up. But he did a good job of playing someone who's not haunted by what he saw.
So what will become of Discovery? The show does something else as well. I always thought the new shows should take place beyond the 24th century so that any inconsistencies can be explained as it's in the future. Well, that shouldn't be a problem now
.
And we finally got to see Spock back in blue without a beard.
And my pretty blonde (Lt Nilsson) remained on the ship
. So there's that.
It does answer my one complaint about how Discovery can exist in the prime timeline though. It's a bit clunky, after all, sooooo many people are aware of Discovery that someone has to spill the beans at some point. BUT, I guess it can work in a larger perspective in story. Perhaps individuals talked about it but it just didn't appear in the shows that take place later (obviously).
I wasn't a huge fan of the Enterprise bridge set. I can see them paying homage to the original series sets and all but it just didn't really work for me. Like I noted before with set designs it's a personal bugaboo. I think if they tried to reflect the set more as it appeared in "The Cage", with the uniforms more similar to "The Cage"---instead of reflecting the 5YM period under Kirk---I could have got behind it more. I didn't expect it to duplicate the TV series (a la "In a Mirror Darkly"---which I've noted numerous times before is great for a nostalgia episode but probably wouldn't work for a weekly series), but I wish the homage had been paid to "The Cage" era as opposed to the late 2260's era.
You could tell Captain Pike was haunted by his future as well. I liked Mount's portrayal there. He does the selfless thing--the thing we expect Starfleet Captains to do--what Captain Kirk did for the people of Veridian IV (giving up paradise to save a people he never knew). And he tries to keep his chin up. But he did a good job of playing someone who's not haunted by what he saw.
So what will become of Discovery? The show does something else as well. I always thought the new shows should take place beyond the 24th century so that any inconsistencies can be explained as it's in the future. Well, that shouldn't be a problem now
.And we finally got to see Spock back in blue without a beard.
And my pretty blonde (Lt Nilsson) remained on the ship
. So there's that.
Thanks.
Overall I have to say I preferred season 2, esp. from a character perspective. I liked most of the storyline.
I noted before I didn't care for how out in the open Section 31 was. Sloan did note to Dr Bashir that he wasn't going to lose sleep over Bashir revealing it...but at the same time no one seemed to be aware of them on DS9 prior to (and during Enterprise as well). Yet in Discovery it seemed they operated in the open mostly. But there seemed to be some correction to that at the conclusion after Control was defeated. I guess after 100 years they may have simply been forgotten about--and of course the events were classified. Again, not a perfect solution, IMO, but it probably does just enough to explain Section 31's 'disappearance' from common knowledge by the time of DS9. Aspects of the Section 31 story were ok, but it wasn't my favorite element of season 2.
I read the novels as well and I sort of preferred the portrayal of the AI (Uraei...though I might have got the spelling off) in TNG/DS9/Enterprise books by David Mack and Christopher Bennett a bit more. In that case the AI was more insidious. It controlled and influenced events but it was much more hidden, more in the background, and seemed more realistic in scope. And the AI already exhibited some of the self-awareness of the Control program in Discovery but it's goal was still what it perceived as the protection of the Federation. It's methods were highly questionable and unethical in the novels, but it's motive was not the eradication of all life, but the protection of the Federation.
But I enjoyed other aspects of season 2--Saru's evolution and that of his people, the individual episodes, the red angel aspects including that of Burnham's mother and Burnham herself. Also the resolution of Spock and Burnham's relationship and how they resolved Spock never speaking of her. While I have my doubts they could keep all aspects of Discovery forever secret, I have no doubt Spock could be tight lipped about it, esp. if it meant the survival of all life. He could be as tight lipped as an Aldeberan shellmouth
. And I really enjoyed Pike. As I pointed out, I thought Anson Mount did an excellent job in the role (a mix of "The Cage" and just a bit of the Kelvin-verse Pike). Esp. after he sees his future--you can see he's haunted by what he saw. Who wouldn't be? And his reaction to Vina's appearance was well done too.So overall I preferred Season 2. It was hard not to watch it all at once. I wanted to pace myself a bit since it was all new to me. I managed to stretch it out to about 3 weeks. Though I really liked Jason Isaacs as Lorca from season 1. I know it's unlikely but I'd love to see a prime-Lorca return at some point on Discovery. I'd love to see how prime-Lorca differs from mirror-Lorca. The novel "Drastic Measures" is a prime-Lorca story and that indicated he is still alive in the mirror universe. I can't help but hope that maybe we haven't seen the last of Isaacs maybe. While they are flung far in the future, he's in another universe. Perhaps Discovery can find a way to rescue him from the mirror universe even though they are far in the future.
Did Kirk really "give up paradise" though? He doesn't decide to leave the Nexus until after he gets bored with it after the realization that none of it is real and therefore doesn't matter. Doesn't really seem to me he thought of it as a paradise.
Partly that didn't happen until after Picard reminded Kirk about his 'duty'. Though time has no meaning in the Nexus. How long was Kirk really there?
In any event, Kirk's sacrifice was still meaningful. He could have went anywhere at anytime when leaving the Nexus. He decided to join Picard and help him stop Soran. It's a point I think that's lost in Generations. It's easy to forget Kirk gave his life for all the people of Veridian IV--a planet he probably never knew existed in the 23rd century. That's what makes him one of the best Starfleet has to offer.
Ditto for Captain Pike. He knows what's in his future, though I don't think he knows when. Yet he deliberately locked himself into that future to save all life in the galaxy. Another heroic Starfleet Officer. Obviously there's more at stake in that case.
Where I live (In the UK) were we'll be able to see this for the first time tomorrow night (Sunday 15th). And have been reading what people have been saying and I look forward to putting my thought etc down here.
Not my interpretation of the scene at all. Picard lectures Kirk about duty, Kirk says he's had it with duty and goes riding his horse. Then while making that jump over the ravine, a jump that scared Kirk every time he did it in reality, only this time it's not scaring him, he realizes it's not real and becomes completely disillusioned with the Nexus since nothing he does there makes a difference. Then he decides to help Picard, to once again make a difference.
According to Guinan, Kirk "only just arrived" himself. And indeed, when Kirk recounts his day, he says one minute he was in the Enterprise B's deflector control, the next he was chopping wood outside the cabin and then Picard walked up to him.
This is the way I remember it as well.
All right, yeah. I was just trying to make a point that Kirk gives up the Nexus to save a people he never knew. Yeah, Kirk realizes the Nexus isn't real---but I think Picard's speech about duty still has a delayed effect. He at first ignores Picard but I think there's part of Kirk that knows Picard is right. We all have those moments. Someone tells us something we know to be true but we don't want to believe it at first. But after a while we realize, yeah, that person's right. I think the speech was the basis and the horse jump the catalyst that made him realize Picard was right. Had Picard never reached Kirk I'm not so sure Kirk would have left. After all 78 years had passed and he hadn't left. Picard reaches him soon after Kirk enters the Nexus...but at the same time he was in it for 78 years (I know it sounds bizarre---one of those time paradox things Captain Janeway hates).
But my primary point was comparing it to Pike's conscious decision to commit himself to what is a horrible future for himself. It's why Pike...and Kirk (and Picard, Archer, Sisko, Janeway and many other Starfleet Captains) are legendary Starfleet Captains. Kirk's sacrifice comes at a high cost---he dies. He could have existed forever in the Nexus but now his death is final. The reward isn't necessarily as great. He only saved a planet while Pike saved the galaxy. But that's a minor distinction in the sense that the point is they sacrificed themselves for some greater good.
In the novel "Engines of Destiny", Scotty (after he appeared on TNG but before GEN) goes back in time to beam Kirk out of the deflector room before he's 'killed' by the energy filament. But when he returns to the 24th century, the Borg are everywhere. They've assimilated Earth in 2063 and then most of the galaxy from there. Since Kirk was not in the Nexus, Picard couldn't defeat Soran without his help, the Veridian system with the D and its crew were destroyed by the shockwave, so the E never gets Picard and his crew, they don't destroy the Borg cube and no one follows the sphere back to restore the timeline. So in order for the E to be able to follow the sphere and undo the assimilation of Earth in 2063, Kirk had to help Picard beat Soran. He died saving hundreds of worlds from centuries of Borg domination! (Yes, I love that novel)
Unless you have Netflix, when you get Disco one day after the US.
As usual the Novel writer didn't think thiongs through. Why would the Borg need to go back in time since with Picard and the 1701-E not at the Battle over Earth (in ST:FC) - there's NO WAY the Fleet would have destroyed the Cube in the first place. Th only reason they did was because Picard knew where to fire. So, yeah, the Borg would have assimilated Earth in the 24th century after that battle.
They'd have figured something out against the Borg in the 24th century necessitating the time travel, they always do
In which case, why even fly to Earth? Just have the sphere go back to the 21st century while still in the Delta Quadrant, in which case it can then proceed to Earth with literally no resistance at all.
That's true no matter what their plans were
About the spore drive which I call Magic Mushroom drive. Starfleet may judge it unethical to use a living host to jump.
It will probably be fudged in some way or else why haven't we seen it in DS9 or Next Generation?
Am I wrong that the engineer had Gary Mitchell eyes? Do I have the name right? The one Elizabeth Dehner had to kill? We may be seeing more about this.
Michael Burnham superwoman is irritating not Tilly. Michael solves all problems, can go blade to blade with a Klingon male and not be annhialated. She's so brilliant shes so beautiful she's Sareks favorite child. It's ridiculous.
The first season is too much. We get little time to get to know the characters.
It's filmed with cheap tricks like the away team marching to the docking bay in great drama. Ridiculous.
It will probably be fudged in some way or else why haven't we seen it in DS9 or Next Generation?
Am I wrong that the engineer had Gary Mitchell eyes? Do I have the name right? The one Elizabeth Dehner had to kill? We may be seeing more about this.
Michael Burnham superwoman is irritating not Tilly. Michael solves all problems, can go blade to blade with a Klingon male and not be annhialated. She's so brilliant shes so beautiful she's Sareks favorite child. It's ridiculous.
The first season is too much. We get little time to get to know the characters.
It's filmed with cheap tricks like the away team marching to the docking bay in great drama. Ridiculous.
Three hundred years prior, we have no knowledge of what the Delta and Beta Quadrants looked like. There could've been since fallen powers that would've made such a journey difficult.
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