First Impressions

[eschaton]

I was never that fond of the women characters in the main casts of any of the Star Trek's between TOS and Disco. But then I loved Ivonova, the leads in Farscape, Layla and the first Romana, and Dutch from Killjoys and many others. I'm thinking the problem isn't me, but Berman era Trek ideals of female characterization.

The problem with Berman-era Trek is that typically women were either just written to be "the woman" (caring, nurturing, sex appeal, etc) or written to be badass in some way to invert part, but not all of the traditional female tropes.

The one exception to that I think is Kira. Kira was just a character who happened to be female, more or less. Nana Visitor even said that was what attracted her to the character when she auditioned - that the character could have just as easily been a man based upon what was on the bio sheet. Which is why Kira is by far the best female character of this era.

Despite my mixed feelings otherwise, Discovery has not fallen into this trap. Femininity or lack thereof is entirely immaterial to any of the female characters.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

The problem is that she's both subject and object of the show. She's the main character that we see the show from the point of, and much of the plot beyond even her character growth revolves around her.

So was Sisko.

 

[eschaton]

So was Sisko.

Every DS9 episode did not center around Sisko though. In some of the Ferengi episodes he was probably onscreen for less than five minutes.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Every DS9 episode did not center around Sisko though. In some of the Ferengi episodes he was probably onscreen for less than five minutes.

No, not every episode was about Sisko. However, DS9 is Sisko's story unlike it is for any of the pre-2009 Star Trek series. It starts with him unable to grieve for his wife. It ends with him becoming a metaphysical being. The series follows his evolution. Yes, other characters also get the spotlight, which is easier with 26 episodes per season. Sisko, thought, is framed to be a Moses-like figure, and he drives the overall arc of the series.

 

[eschaton]

No, not every episode was about Sisko. However, DS9 is Sisko's story unlike it is for any of the pre-2009 Star Trek series. It starts with him unable to grieve for his wife. It ends with him becoming a metaphysical being. The series follows his evolution. Yes, other characters also get the spotlight, which is easier with 26 episodes per season. Sisko, thought, is framed to be a Moses-like figure, and he drives the overall arc of the series.

But if every single episode was from Sisko's point of view, the show would have been inferior. That's my point.

 

[NCC-73515]

My take was she'd spend lifetimes destroying civilizations in search of a man she considered worth her time.

Ah that's why she wore red lipstick!

 

[Vger23]

I'm still constantly amazed whenever people bring up the spore drive as a reason Discovery is not a good show. Particularly confusing are the complaints that people have regarding why the spore Drive never shows up again in the future. I don't think the show could have been any more clear about the fact that you need a tardigrade to make the spore drive work.

And since Discovery was also very clear about the fact that the only reason they had access to a tardigrade in the first place was by a very particular coincidence, there's really no way to replicate the drive ever.

It is a one and done technology because of this requirement. That's why it never shows up again. There is no way to navigate the mycelial network otherwise.

 

[NCC-73515]

My problem with the spore drive is the concept itself

 

[fireproof78]

But not omnipotent beings, beings evolving in to energy, instantaneous transport, thought as the basis of reality, aliens breeding that reasonably should have not way of doing so, telepathy, souls being transferred, or occupying all places simultaneously?

 

[Vger23]

My problem with the spore drive is the concept itself

It's admittedly a harder concept to swallow than most. That said, I don't fault what they were going for. It was the first real attempt in the franchise in a very very long time to introduce a truly new technology, rather than the same old phasers, communicators, transporters and warp drive.

Up to this point, Trek's attempts at different technology were all pretty feeble and superficial. For example quantum torpedoes as opposed to photon torpedoes. See also: generic pew pew balls that make things go boom.

I'm one of those fans that always gives credit for big swings and misses in StarTrek, as opposed to just standing there with the bat on your shoulder doing nothing

 

[NCC-73515]

But not omnipotent beings, beings evolving in to energy, instantaneous transport, thought as the basis of reality, aliens breeding that reasonably should have not way of doing so, telepathy, souls being transferred, or occupying all places simultaneously?

Which entire show is built on any of that as its main concept?

 

[fireproof78]

Which entire show is built on any of that as its main concept?

TNG and omnipotent beings. "The trial never ended."

If I can live with the Q, Trelane and his ilk, Thasians and the Prophets, I can live with a mycelial network.

It's admittedly a harder concept to swallow than most. That said, I don't fault what they were going for. It was the first real attempt in the franchise in a very very long time to introduce a truly new technology, rather than the same old phasers, communicators, transporters and warp drive.

Up to this point, Trek's attempts at different technology were all pretty feeble and superficial. For example quantum torpedoes as opposed to photon torpedoes. See also: generic pew pew balls that make things go boom.

I'm one of those fans that always gives credit for big swings and misses in StarTrek, as opposed to just standing there with the bat on your shoulder doing nothing

Same here. It actually felt imaginative rather than repetitive.

 

[NCC-73515]

TNG and omnipotent beings. "The trial never ended."

If I can live with the Q, Trelane and his ilk, Thasians and the Prophets, I can live with a mycelial network.


Same here. It actually felt imaginative rather than repetitive.

QUINN: "But you mustn't think of us as omnipotent, no matter what the Continuum would like you to believe. You and your ship seem incredibly powerful to lifeforms without your technical expertise. It's no different with us. We may appear omnipotent to you, but believe me, we're not."

Also, the continuum killed Amanda's parents and enforced rules on Q. All 3 can only be victims of such forces if they're not completely omnipotent.

It was never established how powerful Trelane or the Thasians were, but the Prophets seemed to mainly have power over the wormhole and the orbs.

I can of course live with the spore stuff, and I've been watching all episodes as they came out, most of them 2-3 times, and I've accepted the mycelial plane as something similar to the Schisms subspace domain or 8472's fluidic space, but I still find the concept too fantastic and not sci-fi enough.

 

[fireproof78]

"But you mustn't think of us as omnipotent, no matter what the Continuum would like you to believe. You and your ship seem incredibly powerful to lifeforms without your technical expertise. It's no different with us. We may appear omnipotent to you, but believe me, we're not."

Again, based upon what TNG presented. I enjoy VOY but they humanized the Q even more that their appearance in TNG started to become rather confused.

It was never established how powerful Trelane or the Thasians were, but the Prophets seemed to mainly have power over the wormhole and the orbs.

Save for when the Prophets posses people or impact Sisko's conception.

but I still find the concept too fantastic and not sci-fi enough.

How so? How is it more fantastic than non-corporeal beings, or soul transfers?

 

[NCC-73515]

Save for when the Prophets posses people or impact Sisko's conception.

They wouldn't need to first possess them if they were omnipotent, and Sisko's mom was a prophet.

How so? How is it more fantastic than non-corporeal beings, or soul transfers?

Because it relies on mushrooms. If they would access a subspace plane that allows entry and exit to anywhere in the multiverse by modifying the deflector dish like they do to get in and out of fluidic space, it would be a matter of technology and subspace planes. But fungi connecting all that is too far-fetched for me.

 

[fireproof78]

They wouldn't need to first possess them if they were omnipotent, and Sisko's mom was a prophet.

No, just powerful enough to be deus ex machina.

Because it relies on mushrooms. If they would access a subspace plane that allows entry and exit to anywhere in the multiverse by modifying the deflector dish like they do to get in and out of fluidic space, it would be a matter of technology and subspace planes. But fungi connecting all that is too far-fetched for me.

Again, I lack the insight to understand what makes mushrooms different from an undescribed fluid for "fluidic space." It simply is another plane in the multiverse.

 

[NCC-73515]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/steven...ar-trek-series-makes-massive-science-blunder/

 

[fireproof78]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/steven...ar-trek-series-makes-massive-science-blunder/

Oh my...a massive science blunder in Star Trek...? However will it survive...?

 

[thribs]

Never liked the mushroom thing. I get that it’s based on real science, it just sounded too out there. Especially for that period.

 

[NCC-73515]

Oh my...a massive science blunder in Star Trek...? However will it survive...?

Not sure why you insist on exaggerations.