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Superman

Did you know I use to be Superman sort of a few years ago. I was binging Smallville like crazy and started to have dreams I was Clark Kent when I was sleeping. It actually felt kind of nice. Everyone loved me and for some reason I had to keep telling people I was Superman I think in the dream.


Jason
 
He's my least fave Superman. I liked him as Clark though. ;)
In the annals of tv/movie Supermans, Tom Welling's Superman is not even in the same league as those other Supermans, imho.

Welling was a lightweight actor, and the weak acting was apparent throughout the series. The cast around Welling was decent though, especially Rosenbaum, he was good.

Welling's acting was ok and I thought that was good enough in the beginning. But the acting didn't get better. I didn't really see any growth.

In his one on one scenes with Rosenbaum, particularly later on when Lex was becoming his foe, it was clear to me that Welling's Clark was no match for Rosenbaum's Lex. Sadly, Welling's Clark paled in comparison to Rosenbaum's Lex. Welling didn't do justice to the character.



My feelings with Superman is he hasn't not been written well in connection to his legendary status. I mean in terms of personality and being humble and all that stuff they have nailed it IMO though Superman is a character that I think have said before doesn't work well as a secondary character in someone elses story. It does take away form the character. When you write him as a random superhero instead of THE superhero, the granddaddy of them all who was basically the first superhero it doesn't really feel right.

Like in Crisis it seems strange to see Superman just sort of standing in the background were he might as well be Killer Frost or Atom or any of the other more regular variety superheroes on the show. As for the fight I don't mind she won but he should have made a bigger difference in the story or if you want you do that thing were the fight ends in drawl so the fans of each character sort of goes away happy seeing their favorite get in some good punches but not at the expense of fans of the other character. This is one of things that they have done successful in the MCU. When Captain America fought Iron Man they didn't have won win and the other loose. In the end they both kind of lost to Zemo but it wasn't some issue built around who has more strength or anything like that.

Jason
You have a good point.

I thought that Superman was suppose to be the superhero's superhero. Isn't Superman suppose to be larger than life?

One of the issues that I have with Tyler Hoechlin's Superman is that his Superman is a bit player. In Supergirl, he plays second fiddle to Supergirl. His Superman is small scale. I know it is not Hoechlin's fault. It's the nature of his role in that show.

Christopher Reeve's Superman was grand. It was epic. It was done right. The John Williams music definitely helped the cause. On a side note, when Williams' music was played on Smallville, it made up for the weakness of Welling's Clark/Superman, even if just momentarily.

I understand there is a big screen vs small screen aspect to such a comparison. I am not saying the Superman character cannot do well on tv. Superman should be humble but he should also have gravitas.
 
In the annals of tv/movie Supermans, Tom Welling's Superman is not even in the same league as those other Supermans, imho.

Welling was a lightweight actor, and the weak acting was apparent throughout the series. The cast around Welling was decent though, especially Rosenbaum, he was good.

Welling's acting was ok and I thought that was good enough in the beginning. But the acting didn't get better. I didn't really see any growth.

In his one on one scenes with Rosenbaum, particularly later on when Lex was becoming his foe, it was clear to me that Welling's Clark was no match for Rosenbaum's Lex. Sadly, Welling's Clark paled in comparison to Rosenbaum's Lex. Welling didn't do justice to the character.




You have a good point.

I thought that Superman was suppose to be the superhero's superhero. Isn't Superman suppose to be larger than life?

One of the issues that I have with Tyler Hoechlin's Superman is that his Superman is a bit player. In Supergirl, he plays second fiddle to Supergirl. His Superman is small scale. I know it is not Hoechlin's fault. It's the nature of his role in that show.

Christopher Reeve's Superman was grand. It was epic. It was done right. The John Williams music definitely helped the cause. On a side note, when Williams' music was played on Smallville, it made up for the weakness of Welling's Clark/Superman, even if just momentarily.

I understand there is a big screen vs small screen aspect to such a comparison. I am not saying the Superman character cannot do well on tv. Superman should be humble but he should also have gravitas.

I agree. Me I do think Superman can work on TV in part because I am fan of Smallville and also liked Lois and Clark at least the first season. What they had going for them though is they were telling the Superman tale from a different angle. One is Superman before he is Superman and the other is kind of a romantic comedy. What helps though is Superman is still front and center of the stories and both shows understood just how legendary the character is. But they also found away to ground him and make him more relatable by basically showing us Clark Kent as a real person and not just his cover. Clark Kent can have normal flaws and be very human just as long as he has a strong sense of ethics. While in Superman mode though you basically got to write him like Space Jesus.


Jason
 
Superman 78 is just a fine, fine movie.

Joker (film) reminds us of the gritty Scorsese/Dirty Harry/French Connection (and legalizedporn flicks in theaters and drive ins) world that was 70s moviedom before the joy of Star Wars and Superman. The Kansas segment makes me tear up even today.
 
Superman 78 is just a fine, fine movie.

Joker (film) reminds us of the gritty Scorsese/Dirty Harry/French Connection (and legalizedporn flicks in theaters and drive ins) world that was 70s moviedom before the joy of Star Wars and Superman. The Kansas segment makes me tear up even today.
The Krypton and Kansas segments are pretty good, as is the early Metropolis stuff.
 
I think the entire movie is good. Along with Donner cut of Superman II. To me these movies still define Superman for me.


Jason
 
I think the entire movie is good. Along with Donner cut of Superman II. To me these movies still define Superman for me.


Jason
Luthor and his gang are a downside for me, but not enough to ruin the film. I'm also not a fan of Nicholson's Joker in Batman '89. Go figure.
 
I'm so glad they've jettisoned the red Speedo in the modern versions of the character on screen. It was ridiculous.

In the comics? In the last decade the details of his outfit have become variable, just as with Batman. Today Speedos, next year maybe something different.
 
I don't get the common fannish grumpiness about Luthor, Otis, and Teschmacher. I find the performances pitch-perfect, and the characters thoroughly entertaining. I suspect it's mostly down to the fear that any comedy undercuts the idea of superheroes as Very Serious Business.
 
I don't get the common fannish grumpiness about Luthor, Otis, and Teschmacher. I find the performances pitch-perfect, and the characters thoroughly entertaining. I suspect it's mostly down to the fear that any comedy undercuts the idea of superheroes as Very Serious Business.
Nah, I like humor in superhero media. I just didn't find Luthor a credible threat and felt like he was in a different film
 
Lex as played by Jon Cryer in Crisis on the CW the other week was just delightful IMO. I hope that he'll be a regular on Superman & Lois.

Speaking of what works and what doesn't in the costume department and who is and who ain't "my Superman," if they do abandon the Cavil version I think the Michael B. Jordan casting is viable at this point. And the Superman II from Earth 2 costume, as well:

jordan.jpg

Maybe with the white or silver cape as rendered in the comics, rather than the red.

In retrospect, given the variations we saw in Crisis I'm a little surprised that Val-Zod or Calvin Ellis didn't make at least passing appearances somewhere.
 
I dunno. The Argo people were evidently all killed off, but we got three versions of Superman at least and I'm probably forgetting someone. We did get reps for at least four Batman worlds - Batwoman, Fat Dick Grayson 1966, Dude Who Played A Reporter In A Batman Movie, and Guy Who Does Batman's Voice In Cartoons.
 
Lex as played by Jon Cryer in Crisis on the CW the other week was just delightful IMO. I hope that he'll be a regular on Superman & Lois.
:beer:

Cryer has been a revelation in the part. I've often wondered how they can keep affording him, since I would assume he's in a position to command a much higher salary than the usual run of Arrowverse actors.

OTOH, Cryer is probably comfortably set for life after a dozen years of Two and a Half Men, and I suspect he's enjoying the hell out of playing this scenery-chewing supervillain after a career based mostly on dweebs and nebbishes. So maybe he's working with them on the $$.
 
I was a fan of Luthor and Otis and Tessmacher but I think their chemistry together is what really makes them work.. Also it's true they don't make a credible threat but to me that is fine. It's kind of neat even that you got a Superman movie were Superman doesn't really solve problems by punching and fighting a villain. Something you would never see in a modern comic book movie. Also this Lex still provides a good contrast between him and Supes. Instead of Good vs Evil it's more earnestness vs shady scam artist. This Lex Luthor is clever but mostly a fraud while Supes is the real deal. You could even call it small town values vs big city values back when you had more of a appreciation for the more simply living way of life. Granted the racism and sexism aspects is king of ignored, but it is hard to sort of celebrate Norman Rockwell idealism while trashing it at the same time. Lois though did a pretty good job IMO of representing the values of a more modern life.


Jason
 
Jason is right - in the first Reeve movie Luthor is really a plot device to set up a climax where Superman does those things that make him great and that only he can do. He protects and rescues thousands by damming a river, stopping an earthquake, finally turning back time to save a life.

That's what we never quite got again.
 
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Lex as played by Jon Cryer in Crisis on the CW the other week was just delightful IMO. I hope that he'll be a regular on Superman & Lois.
If you haven't seen season 4 of Supergirl, I'd recommend seeking out the episodes "O Brother, Where Art Thou?" and "The House of L". It's an excellent introduction to Lex Luthor, and Cryer really makes the role his own.
 
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