Troi and diplomacy

[Conzilium]

Having thought about what's on screen and in books I was thinking about the frequency with which Troi is involved in diplomatic meetings.

If the other side knew she was Betazoid (told or realised from info or irises) why would you allow her to be part of any negotiations which allowed Federation to go to truth and motive of what you were saying? If you didn't tell the other side that she had these abilities isn't the Federation acting in bad faith as a negotiating partner?

 

[Kilana2]

No. I think a lie of omission concerning Troi's abilities is justified. Especially when the Federation deals with unknown parties. The Federation's enemies don't have any misgivings about turning their spy's abilities against the Federation, like - let's say - changelings, telekinetic power, surveillance techniques etc.
And Troi is only empath - Lwaxana's abilities are stronger. On top of that, Deanna isn't able to read all the species outside - the Ferengi for instance.

 

[Mojochi]

Good question. I like this discussion.

In cases of existing cultural relations, I'd say there's sufficient record of Betazoid presence in the UFP, that anyone negotiating with the Federation ought be well prepared for the likelihood that they or some other type of telepath in their ranks might potentially be involved. Telepaths are commonplace among them, & we all know it. Buyer beware.

Now as for new relations or 1st contacts, then yes, I'd agree it's somewhat shadier to go into negotiations or meetings without disclosure, but how often are they really doing that? In Troi's case, the only strategic spying she manages is to be a mediocre lie detector, in a person by person situation, & if she's detecting someone being untruthful in their dealings, then is it at all unethical to conceal that ability? It's no longer good faith relations.

I also seem to recall in some good faith exchanges, she did willing disclose her abilities, though examples escape me at the moment. Point being, they're usually pretty mindful & above board with it, which is commendable, given how commonplace it is for them. I'd think it would be much more easy to get desensitized to it, & just forget, but they do tend to bring it up a lot, despite it being quite ordinary for them.

Now... ask me how I feel about Troi's tendency to make herself at home in her shipmates' emotional innerworkings & I might give you a rather different answer, whether she considers it her job or not. Being maybe the only one we see on board, she does display a rather entitled posture now & then, as if she has a right or freedom to be all up in their consciousnesses, & while much of that might be beyond her control, how she responds or reacts is very much something she should keep a lid on, unless there is legitimate concern for psychiatric issues.

I was very down on how she gave O'Brien a shame glance in The Wounded, when he had surface some errant hard feelings about his former enemy combatants coming aboard. He did nothing to deserve that, & if that's an example of how she expects she can treat such things, I don't approve.

But again, these are the exceptions, so I don't really harp on her too much about it. It's so damn fictional anyways lol

 

[Qonundrum]

They couldn't really have Troi on the bridge in negotiations all the time to give an artificial advantage. Indeed, Troi sensing only emotions could have her not picking up on any ambivalent or dichotomous state and give Picard the wrong conclusion. She has enough ability to win at poker more than Riker ever could and I bet he taught her that too...

It might have been nice where they're all around the viewing screen and Troi states they're genuine. Either it's "they're hiding something" or they're on the Edo planet where "they're hiding nothing", though had they explored someone making a crime in the active zone she'd be on top of it before they were and the domino effect begins... Oh dear, "Justice" is almost made watchable as a result if they went that way atop their cootie-free hedonistic ways...

The only time I remember when Troi's empathic nature was really cool was "Encounter at Farpoint" where they're inside a non-humanoid alien and she senses the dickens out of it. "Tin Man" too. There may have been another occasion. Otherwise, whatever the scene demands she's the walking "advance the plot forward free" card. Yet they couldn't re-use the hon-humanoid shtick too much due to law of diminishing returns. For more of that, see "Data", subsection "The Measure of d a Man and its reuse in comparative snoozefests The Offspring and in particular The Quality of Life" for more.

 

[Mojochi]

^ I like The Offspring, & The Quality of Life is ok too, except for the abysmal guest actor

As for TNG's use of Betazoids, I was particularly fond of the darker look at it. Devinoni Ral (The Price) was one of the interesting looks at a less than scrupulous bent & Sabin Genestra (The Drumhead) was the closest TNG ever got to a subject that approached what I really wanted them to explore

I'd have given anything if in Ethics, instead of Dr. Toby Russell, they'd written it to better suit Dr. Katherine Pulaski, & instead of Sabin Genestra in The Drumhead, they'd had the balls to make the bad telepathic call be from Deanna Troi herself. They can't always be perfect. The mind is too complex imho, & giving Deanna a plot where she got it wrong for a change would've been epic

 

[at Quark's]

As for TNG's use of Betazoids, I was particularly fond of the darker look at it. Devinoni Ral (The Price) was one of the interesting looks at a less than scrupulous bent

Interestingly, it's Deanna herself that has a problem with Ral not disclosing he's an empath. They even get into an argument about the (un)ethicalness of this very issue when he claims he's doing just the same as she does.

 

[Mojochi]

Interestingly, it's Deanna herself that has a problem with Ral not disclosing he's an empath. They even get into an argument about the (un)ethicalness of this very issue when he claims he's doing just the same as she does.

Yup. It was a good aspect rarely explored with her & her ability. He actually makes a good point imho, & unlike Picard in The Drumhead, where he literally answers Nora Satie's accusation that he too uses a telepath for an advantage, by suggesting that he should perhaps reevaluate how he makes use of it, Troi never actually makes such a claim with Ral.

She just deflects by saying that what she does is different, & sure it is. She doesn't jockey for advantage over everybody she engages, in her line of work, like he does, but that doesn't really address the whole issue imho. It just conveniently wrote it off. Ral isn't entirely in the wrong about Troi imho. He's certainly not the most ethical himself, but the lines between them are a rather gray area too

 

[Conzilium]

Funnily enough I'm reading Titan: Taking Wing and this just cropped up with Klingon General Khegh refusing Troi to come aboard his ship for talks.

 

[Mojochi]

It's easy to make the mistake of assuming that the only reason to not let someone invade your privacy (In this case, probing your thoughts/feelings) is because you have something to hide, but that is a very dark turn, once you present the concept as a concrete thing. It is literally the argument that Worf makes, which Picard shuts down in The Drumhead. That there should be no objection from anyone who is not hiding something, is the 1st step on a hard path to tyranny

 

[JirinPanthosa]

The difference between what Ral does and what Troi does is Ral does it to profit and Troi does it to prevent violence.