The MacGuffins in "Mudd's Women" are the "lithium crystals" (as they are called in the episode).
Hey, I never noticed that before....
- Thread starter Warped9
- Start date
Early days for the shows and errors considered now weren't back then...
JB
JB
I'm not even going to address how I feel about your wording.
As far as the science is concerned;
Are pheromones real? Yes, unquestionably. Many animals produce them, and respond to them in kind.
Do humans produce pheromones, whatever they may be called now or in the future? Yes, though the human olfactory sensitivity has diminished to a point their efficacy is debatable.
Do humans respond to them? Due to the diminishment of human olfactory sensitivity, not so much. In the heat of passion, with the attendant close quarters interaction, maybe.
Could humans respond to pheromones if either they were powerful enough, or human olfactory sensitivity were enhanced? Probably, but unproven.
As such, the scientific community is now going through a period of rethinking, testing new hypotheses, and drawing new conclusions. The only real answer is that we are evolving, and may be evolving away from a model where pheromones are an integral part of how we interact with our world. It remains to be seen if this turns out to be to our benefit. It may not.
IIRC the research I was reading on the effects, or rather lack of effects, was leading to the idea that if a chemical doesn't actually affect other individuals it is not really a pheremone.
Maybe they once did communicate and do not "work" now. But I think that is conjecture, though possibly accurate.
Over and out, on this topic. Be well.
Maybe they once did communicate and do not "work" now. But I think that is conjecture, though possibly accurate.
Over and out, on this topic. Be well.
In TOS you're expected to get things without their necessarily having been explained down to the last detail. The fact that the crew is acting overwhelmed by 3 not that overwhelming women means that some force is acting upon them. McCoy even remarks that objectively they shouldn't be reacting that way. Don't wait for some total exposition like "Oh our tests determined that men were being altered chemically because of such and such a chemical..." and then assume the crew went wacko and out of character because of bad writing. Pick up on what they're telling you. Trust Trek. It's a smart show.
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However, the fact that the drug wasn't needed later on undercuts that. I like plynch's explanation.
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I've always guessed that the episode was written by someone who didn't get that this was a "coed" crew, with plenty of beautiful women in short skirts working side by side with the men. The male crew acts like some submarine crew who hasn't been to a port in months.... Yes it's apparently the drug, but even so...
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However, the fact that the drug wasn't needed later on undercuts that. I like plynch's explanation.
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I've always guessed that the episode was written by someone who didn't get that this was a "coed" crew, with plenty of beautiful women in short skirts working side by side with the men. The male crew acts like some submarine crew who hasn't been to a port in months.... Yes it's apparently the drug, but even so...
I actually think they were supposed to look overwhelming as cast. I have always found only Eve to be attractive, though, but that's just me.
I'm a girl so I'm not the best judge but I thought the girls looked attractive (not more than any in the crew) but acted skanky. I just can't see say McCoy being attracted to them.
If its just about looks then there's Rand, Uhura and practically any Yeoman. Maybe Mudd's women sultry poses and availability attracted the men.
It wasn't just about the looks. The drug did do something that had an effect on the males that were looking at the females who took the drug.
When McCoy says they're beautiful, Kirk does say something to the effect of: but are they really more beautiful then any other woman you've known?
So within the story however the drug accomplished it, The drug did have an effect on males who were in contact and looking at the females who took it.
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When you're working day in and day out with someone who doesn't have much occasion to dress in glamorous civvies, new, lovely faces who don't have prior workplace association with you hold more interest than those of your co-workers.
I wonder what would happen if Mudd took the drug (by accident?) Would've been interesting to see a female crewmember fawn over him inexplicably. What would he have looked like as a result?
Nice plot twist! Not too likely in 1966. But that'd be interesting.
And yeah, from the gowns, the camera angles, the music, I think it was implied that the overall effect was, well, affecting . . . we later find out b/c drugs. Facially, bodily, I'd agree that objectively they aren't quantum-ly more attractive than the regulars or other guest stars, who (as females who got acting parts on TV) were also very objectively attractive.
A woman's playing up her availabliity/interest can make her more attractive to males, so yeah, new women in ball gowns, quite made up, and swaying down the corridors would up their attractiveness to a lot of males. But not so much that trained Starfleet officers would act like 14-year-olds. It's clearly implied there's more to these young women than meets the eye, and of course, there is. I wish I didn't hate the execution if this ep so much, the more I write and listen, the better the concept sounds. To when Eve and Childress aregue and a woman's worth beyond looks is discussed or argued about. (Even though he still wants a servant, not fully-human companion, iirc.)
In my state we just had a state Senator giving a tour to a group of boys from an all-boy school presently mired in a hazing/sex harassment scandal. To a female reporter he said "they could have a lot of fun with you later," and they all laughed. I just can't believe how much asshole people can still be. At least it's getting national press. He had aspirations to the governorship, which I hope are sunk. OH, and he was chair of Judiciary Committee which herad bills about domestic assault and human trafficking.
And yeah, from the gowns, the camera angles, the music, I think it was implied that the overall effect was, well, affecting . . . we later find out b/c drugs. Facially, bodily, I'd agree that objectively they aren't quantum-ly more attractive than the regulars or other guest stars, who (as females who got acting parts on TV) were also very objectively attractive.
A woman's playing up her availabliity/interest can make her more attractive to males, so yeah, new women in ball gowns, quite made up, and swaying down the corridors would up their attractiveness to a lot of males. But not so much that trained Starfleet officers would act like 14-year-olds. It's clearly implied there's more to these young women than meets the eye, and of course, there is. I wish I didn't hate the execution if this ep so much, the more I write and listen, the better the concept sounds. To when Eve and Childress aregue and a woman's worth beyond looks is discussed or argued about. (Even though he still wants a servant, not fully-human companion, iirc.)
In my state we just had a state Senator giving a tour to a group of boys from an all-boy school presently mired in a hazing/sex harassment scandal. To a female reporter he said "they could have a lot of fun with you later," and they all laughed. I just can't believe how much asshole people can still be. At least it's getting national press. He had aspirations to the governorship, which I hope are sunk. OH, and he was chair of Judiciary Committee which herad bills about domestic assault and human trafficking.
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Mudd's other potion, from TAS, worked just fine, too. Made Chris Chapel fall head over heels for him.
But that one wasn't called the Venus drug. Sorta sexist, that name, in the informative sense. Perhaps there's a separate line of products labeled Mars?
Timo Saloniemi
But that one wasn't called the Venus drug. Sorta sexist, that name, in the informative sense. Perhaps there's a separate line of products labeled Mars?
Timo Saloniemi
When Eve took the fake drug, only Childress responded to the change in her as though she was actually putting out whatever it was that makes the men act like teenagers at the Playboy Mansion. That, to me, emphasizes the placebo effect of not knowing it's fake, which Kirk and Mudd obviously did know. As such, whatever they're putting out, it's clearly not normal or natural to the human species as a whole. Whether you want to call it pheromones, or something else, it up to you. But it's clear it's the drug, not a normal function of attraction.
And the other blonde, Susan Denberg, was attractive enough that Playboy put her in their centerfold around the same time. So it's her character that's less appealing, not her.
That term, in the last two hundred years or so, has been used to refer to men's under- and outer-wear as well.
And the other blonde, Susan Denberg, was attractive enough that Playboy put her in their centerfold around the same time. So it's her character that's less appealing, not her.
But "snickers" is also just one letter away from a certain ladies' undergarment, so maybe best not use that either
That term, in the last two hundred years or so, has been used to refer to men's under- and outer-wear as well.
Kinda gives a title like say: "Children of Mars" a whole new twist, eh? 
>nudge, nudge, wink, wink<
I can never keep up. Just when I show up dressed for the beach, everyone else has changed into suits and ties.
Snickers was always known over here as a Marathon bar for many years until the forced change!!! 
JB
JB
Yes, I remember the adverts at time (one of which also used the Snickers/knickers similarity)Snickers was always known over here as a Marathon bar for many years until the forced change!!!
JB
Don't worry, we survivors of the 80s shall keep the memory of the Marathon Bar alive...
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