Hey, I never noticed that before....

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by Warped9, Aug 1, 2015.

  1. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The MacGuffins in "Mudd's Women" are the "lithium crystals" (as they are called in the episode).
     
  2. johnnybear

    johnnybear Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Early days for the shows and errors considered now weren't back then...
    JB
     
  3. FormerLurker

    FormerLurker Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'm not even going to address how I feel about your wording.:vulcan:

    As far as the science is concerned;

    Are pheromones real? Yes, unquestionably. Many animals produce them, and respond to them in kind.
    Do humans produce pheromones, whatever they may be called now or in the future? Yes, though the human olfactory sensitivity has diminished to a point their efficacy is debatable.
    Do humans respond to them? Due to the diminishment of human olfactory sensitivity, not so much. In the heat of passion, with the attendant close quarters interaction, maybe.
    Could humans respond to pheromones if either they were powerful enough, or human olfactory sensitivity were enhanced? Probably, but unproven.
    As such, the scientific community is now going through a period of rethinking, testing new hypotheses, and drawing new conclusions. The only real answer is that we are evolving, and may be evolving away from a model where pheromones are an integral part of how we interact with our world. It remains to be seen if this turns out to be to our benefit. It may not.
     
  4. Maurice

    Maurice Snagglepussed Admiral

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    In short, no. No proof. So the idea does not pass Go.
     
  5. plynch

    plynch Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    IIRC the research I was reading on the effects, or rather lack of effects, was leading to the idea that if a chemical doesn't actually affect other individuals it is not really a pheremone.

    Maybe they once did communicate and do not "work" now. But I think that is conjecture, though possibly accurate.

    Over and out, on this topic. Be well.
     
  6. UnknownSample

    UnknownSample Commodore Commodore

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    In TOS you're expected to get things without their necessarily having been explained down to the last detail. The fact that the crew is acting overwhelmed by 3 not that overwhelming women means that some force is acting upon them. McCoy even remarks that objectively they shouldn't be reacting that way. Don't wait for some total exposition like "Oh our tests determined that men were being altered chemically because of such and such a chemical..." and then assume the crew went wacko and out of character because of bad writing. Pick up on what they're telling you. Trust Trek. It's a smart show.
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    However, the fact that the drug wasn't needed later on undercuts that. I like plynch's explanation.
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    I've always guessed that the episode was written by someone who didn't get that this was a "coed" crew, with plenty of beautiful women in short skirts working side by side with the men. The male crew acts like some submarine crew who hasn't been to a port in months.... Yes it's apparently the drug, but even so...
     
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  7. Phaser Two

    Phaser Two Commodore Premium Member

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    I actually think they were supposed to look overwhelming as cast. I have always found only Eve to be attractive, though, but that's just me.
     
  8. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Commodore Commodore

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    I'm a girl so I'm not the best judge but I thought the girls looked attractive (not more than any in the crew) but acted skanky. I just can't see say McCoy being attracted to them.

    If its just about looks then there's Rand, Uhura and practically any Yeoman. Maybe Mudd's women sultry poses and availability attracted the men.
     
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  9. Noname Given

    Noname Given Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It wasn't just about the looks. The drug did do something that had an effect on the males that were looking at the females who took the drug.

    When McCoy says they're beautiful, Kirk does say something to the effect of: but are they really more beautiful then any other woman you've known?

    So within the story however the drug accomplished it, The drug did have an effect on males who were in contact and looking at the females who took it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2020
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  10. Laura Cynthia Chambers

    Laura Cynthia Chambers Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    When you're working day in and day out with someone who doesn't have much occasion to dress in glamorous civvies, new, lovely faces who don't have prior workplace association with you hold more interest than those of your co-workers.

    I wonder what would happen if Mudd took the drug (by accident?) Would've been interesting to see a female crewmember fawn over him inexplicably. What would he have looked like as a result?
     
  11. plynch

    plynch Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Nice plot twist! Not too likely in 1966. But that'd be interesting.

    And yeah, from the gowns, the camera angles, the music, I think it was implied that the overall effect was, well, affecting . . . we later find out b/c drugs. Facially, bodily, I'd agree that objectively they aren't quantum-ly more attractive than the regulars or other guest stars, who (as females who got acting parts on TV) were also very objectively attractive.

    A woman's playing up her availabliity/interest can make her more attractive to males, so yeah, new women in ball gowns, quite made up, and swaying down the corridors would up their attractiveness to a lot of males. But not so much that trained Starfleet officers would act like 14-year-olds. It's clearly implied there's more to these young women than meets the eye, and of course, there is. I wish I didn't hate the execution if this ep so much, the more I write and listen, the better the concept sounds. To when Eve and Childress aregue and a woman's worth beyond looks is discussed or argued about. (Even though he still wants a servant, not fully-human companion, iirc.)

    In my state we just had a state Senator giving a tour to a group of boys from an all-boy school presently mired in a hazing/sex harassment scandal. To a female reporter he said "they could have a lot of fun with you later," and they all laughed. I just can't believe how much asshole people can still be. At least it's getting national press. He had aspirations to the governorship, which I hope are sunk. OH, and he was chair of Judiciary Committee which herad bills about domestic assault and human trafficking.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2020
  12. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Mudd's other potion, from TAS, worked just fine, too. Made Chris Chapel fall head over heels for him.

    But that one wasn't called the Venus drug. Sorta sexist, that name, in the informative sense. Perhaps there's a separate line of products labeled Mars?

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  13. plynch

    plynch Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Mars bar?

    Has "nuts," so kinda makes sense
     
  14. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Mars bars don't have nuts
    Snickers have nuts
    But "snickers" is also just one letter away from a certain ladies' undergarment, so maybe best not use that either :biggrin:
     
  15. FormerLurker

    FormerLurker Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    When Eve took the fake drug, only Childress responded to the change in her as though she was actually putting out whatever it was that makes the men act like teenagers at the Playboy Mansion. That, to me, emphasizes the placebo effect of not knowing it's fake, which Kirk and Mudd obviously did know. As such, whatever they're putting out, it's clearly not normal or natural to the human species as a whole. Whether you want to call it pheromones, or something else, it up to you. But it's clear it's the drug, not a normal function of attraction.

    And the other blonde, Susan Denberg, was attractive enough that Playboy put her in their centerfold around the same time. So it's her character that's less appealing, not her.

    That term, in the last two hundred years or so, has been used to refer to men's under- and outer-wear as well. ;)
     
  16. Noname Given

    Noname Given Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    :luvlove:Kinda gives a title like say: "Children of Mars" a whole new twist, eh? :luvlove:
    :angel:>nudge, nudge, wink, wink<:angel:
    :whistle:;)
     
  17. Grant

    Grant Commodore Commodore

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    Oh skanky is allowed now?
     
  18. ZapBrannigan

    ZapBrannigan Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I can never keep up. Just when I show up dressed for the beach, everyone else has changed into suits and ties. :ack:
     
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  19. johnnybear

    johnnybear Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Snickers was always known over here as a Marathon bar for many years until the forced change!!! :mad:
    JB
     
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  20. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yes, I remember the adverts at time (one of which also used the Snickers/knickers similarity)
    Don't worry, we survivors of the 80s shall keep the memory of the Marathon Bar alive...
     
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