Spoilers Crisis on Infinite Earths Discussion (CW Event Spoiler Thread)

[Christopher]

Understanding that - in a mostly FANTASY story, that not everything will be explained (either because they didn't have time in the 5 hours; or they didn't think it added to the overall needs of the main story they are ultimately to tell, etc)

It's got nothing to do with genre, with or without capital letters. It's a matter of basic storytelling. The issue would be the same regardless of genre: If someone was imprisoned, then someone must have imprisoned them, and the story didn't tell us who. And if a story leaves something unexplained, then a viewer is entitled to be curious.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Real people have existed in the regular Arrowverse too, and if Black Lightning exists in our world, then the writers really have to take a class in Constitutional law and American history, because their views are simply preposterous.

The entire plot of this season could never happen in the real world.

I disagree. They are addressing (among many things) how government has abused and used its citizens for experimentation as in real world cases over the decades (Tuskegee and CIA experiments too numerous to detail here), military occupation of cities (which was common in the late 1960s/early 70s until the Federal government aided in militarizing local law enforcement with military grade weapons and vehicles, etc.). That's real history about a nation that is no stranger to corruption and abusing its citizens. Black Lightning is playing it more realistically (aside from the fantasy element) than any superhero series this century.

But more to the point (a re-post from the Black Lightning thread):

Areas can be quarantined if a mass disease outbreak happens--its a matter of public safety which takes priority over the right to move about at will.

From HHS.gov:

If a quarantinable disease is suspected or identified, the CDC may issue a Federal isolation or quarantine order. Public health authorities at the federal, state, local, and tribal levels may sometimes seek help from police or other law enforcement officers to enforce a public health order.

The ASA being an effective organization tied to the federal government would have no trouble creating a false outbreak scare and immediately act on it--which is the case in Freeland.

The govermnent can do whatever they want under the claim of public safety, health, natonal security. That is and always has been business as usual in the United States.

If there ever was a "SARS" epidemic, why wouldn't they allow phone calls?

Governments clamp down on the spread of misinformation (under the guise of panic, public health/safety) as much as possible, while simultaneously spread said misinformation when it suits their agendas.

BL is too dark for the real world.

Its getting it right if one actually studies and or/experienced American history.

I think the Freeland isolation storyline must end. In a world where Superman not only exists, he is quite popular, it's hard to imagine people worrying about metas like they do on BL.

Black Lightning had its own reality. That should always take priority over other things dumped into its production.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

True.

False. Stunt casting and cameos is not a studio officially making any sort of statement about joined fictional universes. No one in charge of the DECEU has acknowledged what you're saying at all. This is the equivalent of the E.T. species appearing as part of the galactic senate in The Phantom Menace--stunt cameos, as Universal/Amblin did not officially or legally merge their property with LFL/Fox. Didn't happen.Moreover, in the case of Batman '66, WB does not outright own that series, as its still tied to Fox (now a part of Disney) and the estate of William Dozier. Unless there is official acknowledgement from those parties of some permanent arrangement where its characters and situations can be used in CW-DC productions, this is, again, nothing more than stunt casting/cameos.

Or to put it another way:

I will...yawn.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Hoping a Quintity with Black Lightining. We had #OscarsSOWHite and #DemocratsSOWHite this week... hoping it would NOT be #DCTVsoWhite

Well...

You can do "real world" WITHOUT T@rump or other references. I mean, Tobias' rants can be done with or without many "real world" people.

But that would be rewriting the history of the character and series; Tobias' identity and his observations are firmly built on real world culture & history. Every main character on the show also makes those references--that was one of the significant points in creating the series: to have black characters' reflect real cultural/political/social history in their struggles against those who do not understand them, or in Odell & Tobias' case, uses their knowledge of culture to exploit citizens.

Man… @TREK_GOD_1 Really goes to extremes. He gives nearly every episode an A+ (while I think it is an “A” series, not EVERY episode hits it THAT high) Man, a “D” for this?

There is nothing "extreme" about recognizing high quality. Just as the majority of my ratings for Batwoman have either been B's with I believe one A. I am not obligated to give inferior productions high marks if they did not earn it. That's the kind of thinking that has some upset that Captain America: The Winter Soldier could be so consistently graded high, while Age of Ultron is not. There is no across-the-board "balance" to the qualities of every entry in a franchise.

1. Shadow Demons – Sooooo NON menacing. No one dies, or heck, even really gets hurt (other than Ollie). Really pointless, other than an excuse to fight. I mean, like , how did Ryan Choi NOT get beat up?

Shhh! Don't question obvious things like that. He should have been killed, but...

2. Monitor – didn’t really show why he was a “monitor”. Great actor for the role…just not written very well. EVen worse with the ANti-monitor (though I DO appreciate the swipes at the name)

Another situation where the comic could not be matched.

3. Pariah – even worse. The squandered him. All we got was basically another version of Harry Wells. We SHOULD have had him phase in and out…Earth 1 for sure, but maybe even on the other shows, even in the background, or watching a scene in the show… he SHOULD have been someone who was sorrowful/depressed the whole time… something NEW for Tom Cavanugh to to portray. And him "releasing" the Monitor made NO sense... since he was apparently wiping out universe waaaaay before then

No disagreement there.

Crossoverwise, I look forward to Jefferson, Joe and Henderson getting together and talking stuff like being the dad of a superhero, being a black police officer (the good and bad)

...and that would only happen if the Black Lightning writers handles that--apart from the writers of the other shows.

Also Lynn and Iris will have some things to discuss as well.

Lynn is currently a drug addict and her loyalties to her family (and more manipulation by Tobias) are still in question. That cannot be wiped away anytime soon.

In regards to how what is happening in Freeland affects other heroes and such…. I would hope they bring up racism in that some places in America while others seem to be forgotten. In real life, the contrast in development in the Downtown and North Side area of Chicago as opposed to the South and West side. SO that could easily explain why the heroes concentrate in other series, and why Freeland seems isolated.

That would make the characters on other shows appear utterly clueless; unlike local law enforcement or a mayor, the CW characters are superheroes and have the means to travel everywhere (and do so), and should know more / experience more about the country they live in. They certainly have broad opinions on everything from immigration to sexual identity, yet in a nation with its life blood and foundation being racist tyranny in the physical, ideological, institututional and legal sense, no one outside of Black Lightning has ever taken a serious, deep dive about that history and still raging problem.

That is why the other shows might as well be characters from some other company.

And @TREK_GOD_1 glosses over that both Winter SOlider and Black Panther are IN THE SAME WORLD as Ant Man and Guardians

No one "glossed over" anything. I pointed out the specifics that the plot/tone and direct story impact of The Winter Soldier (which JD referred to) has no bearing on or shared tone with GOTG, just as GOTG has no direct connection to / bearing on the entire Cap storyline across three films concerning Hydra/SHIELD/Bucky/the Accords, etc.

Showing up in a battle scene together (Infinity War) does not mean their stories and tone are blended or would even work together, because frankly, they do not..

I DO agree that BL seemed waaaaay too upbeat in the corssover considering the situation he was in.

It made Jefferson look like he was just shoved into the crossover...which he was, as he only cried out about his family (presumed dead) one time, and did not demand more answers (which the Jefferson of his own show would do) then he was either silent, or shows up to grin like he was going to ComicCon for a cosplay gathering.

Is it possible that Crisis episode 5 appearance is actually AFTER the BL season 3 storyline?

The preview of the next episode of Black Lightning would say the opposite, since he's barely telling Gambi about an alternate reality. He would wait until the end of the entire ASA/Markovian conflict (which threatens the lives of everyone on that show) to just blurt out, "oh, yeah...there's an alternate universe."

When Kara woke up, it could really be ANY time, right? No reason for it to be in Dec 2019, right? Also, BL’s dialogue really sounded like a white guy wrote it.

Again, that is why the other shows might as well be characters from some other company. There was no consistency or basic understanding of Jefferson at all, save for his first reaction, whiuch was merely piggybacking off of his thinking his family was killed. After that, Jefferson in costume only, mouthing crap that did not sound like the character during any of the three seasons his show.

 

[Kirk Prime]

Areas can be quarantined if a mass disease outbreak happens--its a matter of public safety which takes priority over the right to move about at will.

None of that would work for SARS, which has something like a 98 percent recovery rate, and there is no chance there would be a communication black out like this. They literally turned Freeland into a police state, and that would NEVER work in the real world. The press would never just take people's word for it, and there would never be a 100 percent outbreak which means that healthy people would not be allowed to communicate with anyone. Absolutely impossible in the real world.

It made Jefferson look like he was just shoved into the crossover...which he was, as he only cried out about his family (presumed dead) one time, and did not demand more answers (which the Jefferson of his own show would do) then he was either silent, or shows up to grin like he was going to ComicCon for a cosplay gathering.

In fairness, in times of war, you have to compartmentalize. You turn off your grief like a switch and do what you have to do. Jefferson was able to channel his grief into siphoning off the energy. He didn't have time to think about it before Earth 1 disappeared.

 

[Guy Gardener]

It seems like that happened a lot. Carter also did NOT appear in the movie, and probably not in WW84.






Hopefully they will clear it up...they will have to figure out who was president and when. I am not going to put much thought into it, but hope it gets cleared up



Hoping a Quintity with Black Lightining. We had #OscarsSOWHite and #DemocratsSOWHite this week... hoping it would NOT be #DCTVsoWhite






Very true...but wondering if they didn't have time to figure out the new presidency history for Earth Prime



The world in CHICAGO are vastly different, from economic and education , for 2 sides compared to the other 2 sides.

I can see it where Freeland gets their rights run over...too many messages for me to keep up, but as someone here did say... Freeland would be MORE vulnerable to getting rights violated than other cities


They ARE keeping the multiverse...just putting together heroes that WERE a part of ONE universe for like 2 generations (at least). Plenty of room for alternate universes... I am hoping for a comic-Earth 3 crossover...I mean they kinda did it with Earth X...but maybe moreso next time. Or Maybe Earth X villains teaming up with Earth 3?




You can do "real world" WITHOUT T@rump or other references. I mean, Tobias' rants can be done with or without many "real world" people.

And how "grounded" can Black Lightning be, with Jennifer having "godlike" powers, a gazillion metas running around, and Jefferson not being fired form his job the first 2 seasons, with all of his absences. (Even "real world" teachers unions ain't THAT powerful)



how do we know that Nash just didn't get stuck due to his involvement? Kinda like Kal-L in the original Crisis? Or that he hopped worlds and got stuck on Earth Prime. Whatever the case, I hope they get rid of him by the end of the season




@Christopher (and/or our other writers like @Greg Cox ) You should apply to be a writer for the shows... or some kind of novel tie-in....


+===

Man… @TREK_GOD_1 Really goes to extremes. He gives nearly every episode an A+ (while I think it is an “A” series, not EVERY episode hits it THAT high). Man, a “D” for this? My OVERALL assessment would be a B. (More on my thoughts on Black Lightning later) . Now, a lot of that is my extreme love for easter eggs and respect of previous DC universe media. It's what made me have such a love of the Flash TV show from even before it officially began.


I think said it best – a lot of great moments, but the overall story and certain key things were not that great.


Regarding Ezra Miller appearing as Flash – now, I was one, who REALLY thought they could integrate the TV show with Film Universe Justice League. But I have grown to like Ezra’s Flash…certainly NEEDED as part of the mix of that group. And Ezra the actor has been saying early on “Multiverse!” .. mainly to justify 2 Flashes at the same time, but I think really tried to connect with fans. SO for him to appear in Crisis, is just perfect. A great reward for his advocacy from the jump.

Ryan Choi (and thus the actor Osric) is really cool... seems like a sincerely nice guy, and a good balance to angry/sarcastic members of the LEGENDS. Hope they can use him well.

Seeing Marv in a cameo was awesome… but he also seemed A LOT like from Mr. Robot (but a polar opposite)

The Legends episode was soooo Legends…with Beebo (which actually wasn’t THAT crazy considering). However, dispappointing we barely saw theLegends themselves other than Sara.


So those of us who wanted the merger won out, despite all the naysaying. Now, I totally agree.. why would Earth-BL be a part of the merger? I understand 1 and 38

Now, with the new Earth 2… I am wondering if THAT will be more like the Earth 2 of the comics, and maybe that is where Jay Garrick is now? Because it seems like a “Justice Society” type of world, with an older generation of Superheroes.

And if so, it would be nice to have an Earth 3 with evil versions of our heroes. SO possibly the next cross over is fighting evil versions of themselves? (Or maybe some variation with the “evil” people fighting NOT they doppelganger but someone else…to save on money).

My big “concerns” would be things like

1. Shadow Demons – Sooooo NON menacing. No one dies, or heck, even really gets hurt (other than Ollie). Really pointless, other than an excuse to fight. I mean, like , how did Ryan Choi NOT get beat up? It LOOKED menacing, with so many…but this should have been a WORLDWIDE fight…having EVERY person, try to fight, like the New Yorkers in Spiderman. Something where it had a reason to fight them. ANd didn't they look a whole lot like Time Wraiths?

2. Monitor – didn’t really show why he was a “monitor”. Great actor for the role…just not written very well. EVen worse with the ANti-monitor (though I DO appreciate the swipes at the name)

3. Pariah – even worse. The squandered him. All we got was basically another version of Harry Wells. We SHOULD have had him phase in and out…Earth 1 for sure, but maybe even on the other shows, even in the background, or watching a scene in the show… he SHOULD have been someone who was sorrowful/depressed the whole time… something NEW for Tom Cavanugh to to portray. And him "releasing" the Monitor made NO sense... since he was apparently wiping out universe waaaaay before then

The stuff like Green Arrow being the first hero… I personally would just handwave it , and let it go. We KNOW it’s really about him being the first ARROWVERSE hero, and we can make other excuses (like maybe he is the first to reveal his TRUE identity… Superman, Batman, and Black Lightning still have SECRET identities)


Oh, and Gleek, and the SUperfriends reference…yes, corny, but this was LEGENDS, and moreso, just being the fan from watching Superfriends on Saturday morning, and seeing the “real life” Hall of Justice…that was just awesome.


Regarding How this affects Black Lightning, which @tre is so adamant that it will ruin everything.

I really do NOT think so.


Crossoverwise, I look forward to Jefferson, Joe and Henderson getting together and talking stuff like being the dad of a superhero, being a black police officer (the good and bad), and just generally be a good friendship, and hopefully teach white audience some things in a subtle way. Also Lynn and Iris will have some things to discuss as well.

In regards to how what is happening in Freeland affects other heroes and such…. I would hope they bring up racism in that some places in America while others seem to be forgotten. In real life, the contrast in development in the Downtown and North Side area of Chicago as opposed to the South and West side. SO that could easily explain why the heroes concentrate in other series, and why Freeland seems isolated.

And @TREK_GOD_1 glosses over that both Winter SOlider and Black Panther are IN THE SAME WORLD as Ant Man and Guardians... but like the MCU, they characters might not look their "best" in a crossover, but in their OWN vehicle, they will be who they are "supposed" to be. The merger does NOT mean the white writers will take over plots and dialogue of Black Lightning... but just makes the crossovers easier, and more people involved.

I DO agree that BL seemed waaaaay too upbeat in the corssover considering the situation he was in. Is it possible that Crisis episode 5 appearance is actually AFTER the BL season 3 storyline? When Kara woke up, it could really be ANY time, right? No reason for it to be in Dec 2019, right? Also, BL’s dialogue really sounded like a white guy wrote it.


So again, my overall assessment… very weak story/villain wise. But a WHOLE lot of fun, with some awesome surprises. I had a lot of fun sharing the background info with my daughter. Oh, and I love being right about the merger

I've been slow to coming around to there even being a new multiverse because I wasn't paying attention. Then I figured if no one on Earth Prime knows about extra dimensional travel, but they know Nash Wells, then either he lied about where he's from, and why he looks like a Wells, or Nash is the Wells of Earth Prime.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

None of that would work for SARS, which has something like a 98 percent recovery rate,

During the SARS outbreak of 2003, 774 people out of 8,098 infected died. If it was concentrated in one town or city, taking into account that there is no standardization of immunity/strong health management (especially in an economically struggling city like Freeland) there are higher chances of the average person to be exposed to the coronavirus. If local hospitals report that there's an outbreak of that magnitude, then you can bet your last dollar that my earlier HHS.gov quote would go into effect.

In fairness, in times of war, you have to compartmentalize. You turn off your grief like a switch and do what you have to do.

Its never that easy, and I have the veterans in my family, as friends and staff to know its not that easy. Jefferson's ultimate priority--he core of his heart is his family (followed by his community), and if he's told they were just wiped off the face of the earth, he's not going to "pull up his boot straps" like some fake-ass John Wayne movie and march on. He is going to be as ripped apart with grief and anger as he's been presented on his own series when his family is in danger.

The crossover screwed his character over.

 

[The Realist]

^ As a fellow Black Lightning fan (one of the few things we can agree on), I concur Jefferson wasn't written as distinctively or convincingly as on his own show, but he had his moments. I particularly liked the bit in one of the episodes before the break when Barry accurately identifies the Dylan Thomas quote, and Jefferson responds with a pleased, "Well, all right, Flash" -- the educator in him coming out.

 

[thribs]

I wonder what the next crossover will be? With Superman getting his own show I imagine he will become the new leader of the ArrowVerse so it could be Darkseid or Brainiac.

 

[Morpheus 02]

I wonder what the next crossover will be? With Superman getting his own show I imagine he will become the new leader of the ArrowVerse so it could be Darkseid or Brainiac.

I am thinking a real Earth 3, for the big crossover... I know they kinda did it with Earth X, and maybe they can with both Earth X and 3 teamingnup... also would be a good way get get Stephen Amell back (his evil character didnt die, right?).

For a low impact crossover, I am hoping Flash and Black Lightning.

 

[JD]

I wonder what the next crossover will be? With Superman getting his own show I imagine he will become the new leader of the ArrowVerse so it could be Darkseid or Brainiac.

I'm not sure about that, from a real world perpsective I could see leaving Barry, Sarah, and Kara as the leaders of the their heroes since they're the ones who has been around the longest.

There's no direct crossover (with The Winter Soldier (and its tone, related events which bled into Civil War) and GOTG. If not for Infinity War/Endgame, you would never associate the characters from the Cap side and GOTG, and even then, there was no firm connection (the Guardians were with Stark's side in IW, and Nebula's Endgame sub-plot largely connected to other characters like Rhodey and Hawkeye). The differences between Black Lightning and the CW-DC shows is glaring on the grand scale, all thanks Black Lightning's creators purposely creating their show not be some silly, alien-filled romp, but a fantasy series completely framed in its very specific, carefully considered sociopolitical/emotional story of the Pierce family and their city.

But none of that matters when we're talking about whether or not they are or should be part of a shared universe. There are plenty of examples out there of shared universes have a huge variety of tones and styles, so I really don't see why this is such an issue.

I'm going to just leave this here without comment lol (possible trigger warning...)
https://twitter.com/pagmyst/status/1217832769700548608

Wow, that is really creepy. Was the Black Lighting mask used by a body double or something.

False. Stunt casting and cameos is not a studio officially making any sort of statement about joined fictional universes. No one in charge of the DECEU has acknowledged what you're saying at all. This is the equivalent of the E.T. species appearing as part of the galactic senate in The Phantom Menace--stunt cameos, as Universal/Amblin did not officially or legally merge their property with LFL/Fox. Didn't happen.Moreover, in the case of Batman '66, WB does not outright own that series, as its still tied to Fox (now a part of Disney) and the estate of William Dozier. Unless there is official acknowledgement from those parties of some permanent arrangement where its characters and situations can be used in CW-DC productions, this is, again, nothing more than stunt casting/cameos.

The characters appearing in the crossover IS an official annoucement that they are in the same multiverse. This stuff is all produced by DC and the WB and both companies are aware of what is going on and allowed these characters to appear in the show. It's not like they went around and snuck all of the people onto the set, and grabbed the clips they used at the end off the internet. If WB or DC didn't intend for these different shows and movies to be part of the same multiverse they wouldn't have allowed them to appear on the crossover.
No, most of them will probably not interact, but that doesn't change the fact that as of now, all of the shows and movies we see as part of the crossover are now part of the Arrowverse's multiverse.
Personally, I'm hoping that we might see crossovers between Earth Prime and Earths 9 and 21 aka Titans and Doom Patrol, but I know that's unlike.

No one "glossed over" anything. I pointed out the specifics that the plot/tone and direct story impact of The Winter Soldier (which JD referred to) has no bearing on or shared tone with GOTG, just as GOTG has no direct connection to / bearing on the entire Cap storyline across three films concerning Hydra/SHIELD/Bucky/the Accords, etc.

Showing up in a battle scene together (Infinity War) does not mean their stories and tone are blended or would even work together, because frankly, they do not..

Which once again, has no impact on the fact that these things all take place in one universe.

 

[thribs]

Wow, that is really creepy. Was the Black Lighting mask used by a body double or something.

Yeah. It’s common practice with stunt doubles these days, due to HD cameras etc.

 

[thribs]

I am thinking a real Earth 3, for the big crossover... I know they kinda did it with Earth X, and maybe they can with both Earth X and 3 teamingnup... also would be a good way get get Stephen Amell back (his evil character didnt die, right?).

For a low impact crossover, I am hoping Flash and Black Lightning.

I’m afraid he did die. Oliver killed him.

 

[Christopher]

I'm not sure about that, from a real world perpsective I could see leaving Barry, Sarah, and Kara as the leaders of the their heroes since they're the ones who has been around the longest.

From a real-world perspective, I assume the leaders of the Justice League will be the lead characters of the shows. Heck, of the founding seven Leaguers, the only one who isn't the lead character of a current or upcoming CW show is J'onn.

Although Part 5 definitely seemed, both in the climactic fight and in the Oliver memorial scene, to be positioning Sara as the successor to Oliver's leadership role, with Barry and Kara completing the Trinity. Which is logical; she's the longest-standing veteran among the remaining Arrowverse leads, and she's the captain of a timeship, which is a degree of leadership unmatched by any of the other Leaguers except J'onn, who led the DEO (and maybe Jefferson, who used to be a high school principal).

The characters appearing in the crossover IS an official annoucement that they are in the same multiverse.

You're taking that too literally. A "multiverse" isn't a thing that really exists outside of stories, it's just a plot device used within certain stories. Yes, for the purposes of Crisis, all other DC screen productions are part of the Arrow-multiverse. But that in no way requires any other DC production to agree with that, because it's all just pretend for the sake of telling stories, and different storytellers can pretend different things. The 2003 CG-animated Spider-Man TV series on MTV was written as a direct sequel to the first Sam Raimi Spidey film, but the Raimi sequels totally ignored it (for one thing, it killed off Curt Connors in its first episode). Much as Superman Returns ignored every movie after Superman II, Terminator: Dark Fate ignored every movie after T2, Dallas ignored an entire season of itself, etc. Fiction is not binding. What one story says can be freely ignored by later stories, even those purporting to be in the same reality.

So it would be unrealistic to expect any other DC production to acknowledge the storytelling conceits of the Arrowverse, even in cases where the actors actually appeared in Crisis. There are countless examples of the same actor appearing as the same character in mutually incompatible continuities -- just off the top of my head, Don Adams reprised Maxwell Smart in at least two, probably three contradictory sequels to Get Smart (the feature film The Nude Bomb, the TV-movie revival, and the short-lived sequel sitcom). So, for instance, there'd be absolutely nothing to prevent Ezra Miller's Barry from saying in the Flashpoint movie that he's never met another incarnation of himself and got the idea for the name "Flash" in a totally different way than we saw here. It's all just pretend, after all. What the TV show pretended won't necessarily be what any other story pretends.

If WB or DC didn't intend for these different shows and movies to be part of the same multiverse they wouldn't have allowed them to appear on the crossover.

Of course they would. There have been countless examples throughout film and TV history of characters appearing on a different show or film without any implication that they shared a universe. Spock showing up on Carol Burnett. Lurch and Colonel Klink popping out of windows on Batman. The Penguin appearing in turn on The Monkees. Kevin McCarthy reprising his Invasion of the Body Snatchers character for a gag scene in the 1978 remake and again in Looney Tunes: Back in Action. Mulder & Scully appearing on The Simpsons. Detective Munch appearing everywhere.

Crossovers like that are about publicity, not continuity. Movie and TV studio execs couldn't care less whether two stories are consistent with each other, as long as people watch them. Ezra Miller showing up in Crisis is basically a product placement for the Flash movie. If it gets people to buy tickets, it's done its job.

No, most of them will probably not interact, but that doesn't change the fact that as of now, all of the shows and movies we see as part of the crossover are now part of the Arrowverse's multiverse.

There are no "facts" in fiction. There is only the premise of a given story. Crisis pretended that all those other universes were part of the multiverse. That served the needs of that particular story, because they needed to show a larger multiverse than just the CW shows and it made it more engaging if the universes were familiar. That doesn't mean they'll honor it in later stories. Heck, they said in Crisis on Earth-X that there were only 53 Earths, but they threw that "fact" out the window before very long at all.


Now, I do get where you're coming from. It would be fun if at least some other DC productions decided to pick up on the concept the Arrowverse has established and play more with the idea of a shared universe. Heck, I'd love to see Constantine show up in a Lucifer episode and get an explanation of Lucifer's "I owe you for Maze." But it'll only happen if the creators of a given show or movie decide they want to use the idea. It's not like it's some law that will be perpetually binding on all future productions. Even the Arrowverse isn't rigidly bound by its past continuity (53 Earths...), so why should anything else be?

 

[The Realist]

so I really don't see why this is such an issue.

You forget to whom you speak.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I’m afraid he did die. Oliver killed him.

The multiverse died.

There's a new Multiverse.

Everything we saw in the old multiverse didn't copy and paste over to the new Multiverse, but similar trends probably did occur, which is why earth prime looks a lot like earth 38 and earth 1.

 

[Nerys Myk]

So who's doing a five hour back to back rewatch?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Archive Footage.

From before the Paragons murder this mutiverses heroes...

Kara and Lex had to have been dating.

Actually... How Alex said that "Lex Luthor is the greatest" UM... Did they put Alex back in the closet?

 

[The Realist]

I'm going to just leave this here without comment lol (possible trigger warning...)
https://twitter.com/pagmyst/status/1217832769700548608

That is awesome.

The best part to me is Cress Williams cracking the fuck up over it.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Archive Footage.

From before the Paragons murder this mutiverses heroes...

Kara and Lex had to have been dating.

What porn parody is that from?

[Actually... How Alex said that "Lex Luthor was the greatest" UM... Did they put Alex back in the closet?

Whut????????