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Spoilers Crisis on Infinite Earths Discussion (CW Event Spoiler Thread)

I thought they were showing The Comedian, Rorschach, et al, towards the end. :eek: It turned out those were the Titans. Still would've loved to see Dean Cain and Teri Hatcher, but they did already guest starred (albeit different roles) on Supergirl.
 
TREK_GOD_1 said:
There is no official connection between Snyder's DCEU and CW-DC.
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False.
TREK_GOD_1 said:
Don't hold your breath expecting to see CW-DC in the sequels to Wonder Woman, Aquaman, etc.
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True.

You're half right here. The DCEU (as well as Batman '66, Smallville, and the plethora of other DC shows/movies that were referenced in "Crisis") is now officially part of the larger Arrow(multi)verse. This was explicitly established in a narrative context in a DC production from Warner Bros. I don't know how it gets more official than that. Just because you don't like it doesn't negate the fact.

You're not wrong, however, that it's a fact that won't have any practical effect on the movies going forward (unless the Flash movie calls back to Miller's scene with Gustin, which I wouldn't 100 percent rule out).

Bottom line is, you just don't want Arrowverse cooties on the DC stuff you like (e.g., Snyder's films, Black Lightning). Or to put it another way:

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WB approached Marc Guggenheim to ask if he could put Ezra in the crossover.

https://variety.com/2020/tv/feature...r-cameo-marc-guggenheim-interview-1203467952/
We were series wrapped on “Arrow,” and we were wrapped on the whole crossover. We were in post and some episodes were locked, and some were soft-locked. I got a phone call from [Warner Bros. boss] Peter Roth saying, “I know you’re locked, but can you put Ezra into the crossover?” And I said, “Yes.” And he said, “How, you’re series wrapped? And you’re wrapped on the crossover.” And I said, “Yeah, I know, but if you’re telling me Ezra Miller can be in the crossover, I can make it happen.” I called Eric Wallace who is the showrunner of “Flash,” and he called up Grant Gustin - because the one thing that was our only concern was the thought we didn’t want to do it unless Grant was 100 percent onboard with it. And he was. He was incredibly enthusiastic and onboard with it. And then we got on the phone with Ezra Miller and told him the scene I had written and he was completely into it. And we just went. We put together a unit of the “Flash” crew on the “Flash” set [since “Arrow’s” team, which had produced the rest of the hour, was gone]. And much to our surprise, no one noticed Ezra Miller was in Vancouver and no one leaked it from the crew, which we appreciate. So we were able to keep it a surprise.
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Gryffindorian said:
I thought they were showing The Comedian, Rorschach, et al, towards the end. :eek: It turned out those were the Titans. Still would've loved to see Dean Cain and Teri Hatcher, but they did already guest starred (albeit different roles) on Supergirl.
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Reading this I thought of something else they really didn't do. Brandon Routh is now the Alexander Salkind version of Superman; but in all of the Arrowverse crisis, we never saw or heard mentioned anything about Helen Slater's version of Supergirl who should still exist in that universe.:eek::shrug:
 
I'm not sure why they didn't just make Lex the President. That seems like a even more interesting angle to go with. Put him in the white suit and everything.


Jason
 
Okay, overnight I had an idea for why Black Lightning's Earth was merged into Earth-Prime even though he wasn't a Paragon. In Part 3, he absorbed a ton of energy from the Anti-Monitor's antimatter cannon, which was at the heart of the reality destruction, and may have been tapping into the primal energies at the Dawn of Time. So it's possible that gave BL a link to those primal energies, and thus to the process of the multiverse's rebirth as mediated by the Paragons. Therefore, something-mumble, comic-booky handwave, his Earth got fused with the Paragons' two Earths when the reboot happened.

Come to think of it, Flash-90 was powering that cannon the whole time, so maybe he had a link to it too. It'd be cool to find that Earth-90 had been merged into Earth-Prime as well, that the 1990 The Flash was now part of our Flash's history. It kind of makes sense, since Earth-1 already had a number of doppelgangers from Earth-90, mostly having the same roles in both universes -- Tina, Bellows, Trickster, Prank, Julio. So it'd be kind of an easy merger, though it'd change history so that the current Flash was the successor to the 1990 Flash, much as Barry became to Jay Garrick in the post-Crisis comics. I have sometimes wished that the modern series had been a direct sequel to the '90 show from the start, so it might be nice if it became that now.

Although that would be tricky, because implicitly Earth-1's Henry Allen and Earth-3's Jay Garrick were doppelgangers of Earth-90's Barry Allen, so Barry-90 would presumably be fused with Henry-1 in such a merger. So would that make our Flash Barry Jr.? And how to account for the two completely different versions of Iris West?


Noname Given said:
Reading this I thought of something else they really didn't do. Brandon Routh is now the Alexander Salkind version of Superman; but in all of the Arrowverse crisis, we never saw or heard mentioned anything about Helen Slater's version of Supergirl who should still exist in that universe.
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Routh's Superman was always a variant on the Salkind/Donner version, but updated 20-odd years, tweaking the events of Superman II enough to give Superman and Lois a son, and ignoring/overwriting everything after S2, which presumably means ignoring Supergirl as well. (Though I suppose you could tweak it to fit, since Superman was off-planet during the events of Supergirl.)

Still, that doesn't preclude the Salkindverse existing as its own separate variant; after all, some of the parallel Earths are pretty similar to each other, e.g. the Earth where they found the duplicate Waverider and Rory, with Mick being pretty much exactly the same, just with the Legends having disbanded. So Slater-Supergirl could still have shown up.



Jayson1 said:
I'm not sure why they didn't just make Lex the President. That seems like a even more interesting angle to go with.
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Remember, last season, President Baker was Lex's puppet. Actually being the President would be a step downward from Lex's POV. He wouldn't settle for that.

Besides, I get the impression Lex has decided to try playing hero. A POTUS has a limited capacity to be heroic, since they have to answer to Congress and their party and so on and that (by design) puts restrictions on presidential license.
 
^ Judging by his smarmy wink to Kara and the preview for Sunday's new episode, I doubt he has any interest in legitimate heroism (though in his own mind, of course, he's always been the hero). Although his line to Kara about judging him by the standards of another universe's Lex could be an effort to introduce a little doubt and ambiguity as to his motives. Guess we'll know more in a couple of days.
 
TREK_GOD_1 said:
Black Lightning exists in "our" world, hence the numerous references to real U.S. Presidents, known historical and cultural figures / events, authors, etc. That was the intent of the Akils, Scott, et al., when creating the series--that it was set in the "real world" as it would address serious, real world issues (as a matter of daily life) through the fantasy lens. That sets it apart from the common CW-DC series.
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Real people have existed in the regular Arrowverse too, and if Black Lightning exists in our world, then the writers really have to take a class in Constitutional law and American history, because their views are simply preposterous.

The entire plot of this season could never happen in the real world.

How many people do you think are in Freeland? Do you really think that they could be that thoroughly isolated?

If there ever was a "SARS" epidemic, why wouldn't they allow phone calls?

BL is too dark for the real world. It's closer to Watchmen than to reality. What I am really hoping is that the writers can adapt the plot to adjust for being a new Earth. I think the Freeland isolation storyline must end. In a world where Superman not only exists, he is quite popular, it's hard to imagine people worrying about metas like they do on BL.
 
I decided to look into what elements from the comics' CoIE made it into the show in some form, so I looked it up on the DC Database:

https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Crisis_on_Infinite_Earths

Common elements:
  • Pariah is forced to witness the destruction of the worlds.
  • On one of the first worlds we see destroyed, a hero and his wife Lois Lane send their infant son off in a capsule that crosses to another dimension -- in the comic it was Earth-3, the heroic Alexander Luthor, and his son Alexander Jr., while in the show it was Argo, Superman, and Jonathan.
  • The Monitor sends Harbinger to assemble the heroes (in the comics, she sent replicas of herself rather than going one at a time).
  • A mass Shadow Demon attack happens at the climax of Part 1.
  • The Monitor gathers heroes on his satellite -- substituted here with the Waverider.
  • Flash appears in a portal to warn of the end of the world (reflected last year in Elseworlds, and separately, clumsily, in Batman v Superman).
  • The Monitor erected protective towers that the heroes defend from Shadow Demons (though in the comics he sent the heroes to activate them in the first place).
  • A team goes into the past and interacts with Jonah Hex (and other Western heroes in the comic).
  • The Monitor gives someone superpowers against their will so they can play a key role in the fight (Kimiyo Hoshi/Dr. Light in the comic, Vibe in the show).
  • Harbinger is possessed by a Shadow Demon and kills the Monitor just before Earth-1 is (apparently) destroyed.
  • Loose parallel: In the comic, the Monitor shunts Earths 1 & 2 into a Netherworld to protect them from annihilation; in the show, Pariah sends the Paragons to the Vanishing Point to protect them (I like this change, since it gives Pariah some redemption).
  • All times on Earth-1 are blended together (Legends of Tomorrow did this as its season 2 cliffhanger ending).
  • The core heroes left to fix things come from just two Earths (1 & 2 in the comic, 1 & 38 in the show).
  • Earth-X's destruction is shown alongside multiple others.
  • In the latter half, the Crisis is revealed to be the result of an experiment to probe the Dawn of Time (originally by Krona, creating the Monitor and Anti-Monitor as a side effect; the show gave Krona's role to Mar Novu).
  • Supergirl sacrifices her life to save Superman from the Anti-Monitor (teased in the climactic fight in the show, but averted by the Atom's timely arrival).
  • Superman holds the dying Supergirl in his arms (inverted in the show).
  • Issue 8 is titled "A Flash of the Lightning" (as was the Flash season premiere starting the buildup to Crisis).
  • Difference: The antimatter cannon in the comics is the Anti-Monitor's backup plan to finish the job, rather than the cause of the destruction all along. In both versions, Barry Allen sacrifices his life to destroy the cannon, though in the comic, he didn't power it.
  • Lex Luthor attempts to exploit the Crisis to seize power, and travels back in time to prevent Krona's (Novu's) experiment (separate events in the comic).
  • A superpowered version of Lex Luthor (actually Alexander Jr.) plays a key role on the heroes' side.
  • The Spectre awakens and takes the remaining heroes to the Dawn of Time, where the Spectre defeats the Anti-Monitor and triggers the reboot of the universe.
  • A Kryptonian hero not from Earth-1 is the first to reawaken in their apartment and discover the new universe (Earth-2 Clark in the comic, Kara in the show).
  • The heroes discover that the cities of the two main Earths are now joined on a single Earth (represented by Central and Keystone Cities in the comic, National City and the rest in the show).
  • Only the heroes present at the Dawn of Time remember the previous timeline.
  • The Anti-Monitor shows up for one last battle on the merged Earth, though in the comic he's killed by Earth-2 Superman rather than trapped in the Microverse.
  • The Green Arrow (of Earth-2) is killed by Shadow Demons (but does not become the Spectre in the comic).
  • The miniseries ends with Psycho-Pirate ranting in a cell in Arkham (used as the tag of Elseworlds to foreshadow Crisis, rather than the tag of Crisis itself).
One major difference, I assume, is that the heroes who remembered the events at the end of CoIE subsequently forgot them in the comics, and the continuity/backstory of the universe was rebooted from scratch. In this case, it looks like all the heroes (at least all the ones J'onn melded with) will remember the old histories, and the changes will probably be fairly limited (enough to introduce new story elements but not completely reboot characterizations, relationships, backstories, etc.).


Incidentally, it's bugged me all along that the show's version of Pariah makes no sense. The idea is supposed to be that Pariah is damned because he released the Anti-Monitor and thus triggered the start of the Crisis. But that's supposed to be something that happened long ago. In the show, it happens immediately before the Crisis, months after the Anti-Monitor has already built his weapon and test-fired it to destroy Earth-2. So in what way did he "release" the Anti-Monitor? It seems the A-M was imprisoned behind that wall with the Paragon symbols, but when? Was it just after he test-fired the cannon? If so, then who imprisoned him? Not the Monitor, surely, since he didn't learn about the Paragons until afterward. The whole thing was very shoddily handled.
 
Jayson1 said:
I'm not sure why they didn't just make Lex the President. That seems like a even more interesting angle to go with. Put him in the white suit and everything.


Jason
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That may be where they're heading with Lex's storyline.

Christopher said:
Incidentally, it's bugged me all along that the show's version of Pariah makes no sense. The idea is supposed to be that Pariah is damned because he released the Anti-Monitor and thus triggered the start of the Crisis. But that's supposed to be something that happened long ago. In the show, it happens immediately before the Crisis, months after the Anti-Monitor has already built his weapon and test-fired it to destroy Earth-2. So in what way did he "release" the Anti-Monitor? It seems the A-M was imprisoned behind that wall with the Paragon symbols, but when? Was it just after he test-fired the cannon? If so, then who imprisoned him? Not the Monitor, surely, since he didn't learn about the Paragons until afterward. The whole thing was very shoddily handled.
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IDK - given BOTH versions of the Monitor have Cosmic level abilities; the Anti Monitor time travelling to the Dawn of Time to build the Cannon (at the Dawn of Time - he has all the time he needs to create it ;)), and then to Earth-90 to bring the Flash from that world to power it <--- Yeah, don't see the issue.

Hell you'd think IF the Monitor saw all this and knew this was coming he himself could try to go back in time to stop himself from setting all this into motion; but he doesn't. Also, I don't think we ever find out how the Monitor acquired the "Book Of Destiny" and who/what/or when said Book came into existence either.
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TLDR: It's all a comic book fantasy; don't worry to much about trying to make actual sense of the whole thing; just enjoy the ride... ;)
 
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Noname Given said:
IDK - given BOTH versions of the Monitor have Cosmic level abilities; the Anti Monitor time travelling to the Dawn of Time to build the Cannon (at the Dawn of Time - he has all the time he needs to create it ;)), and then to Earth-90 to bring the Flash from that world to power it <--- Yeah, don't see the issue.

Hell you'd think IF the Monitor saw all this and knew this was coming he himself could try to go back in time to stop himself from setting all this into motion; but he doesn't. Also, I don't think we ever find out how the Monitor acquired the "Book Of Destiny" and who/what/or when said Book came into existence either.
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It's not about how, it's about when. At the start of Part 2, the Monitor said he'd only just found out about the Paragons, which was why he didn't mention them before. And less than two episodes later, he died. So he wouldn't have had time to go back and imprison the Anti-Monitor in the sewer. Some other entity must've done it -- perhaps the entity that wrote the Book of Destiny. So who or what was that? There are a lot of gaps in the mythology.


TLDR: It's all a comic book fantasy; don't worry to much about trying to make actual sense of the whole thing; just enjoy the ride... ;)
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Asking questions raised by a story is part of the enjoyment of a story. I'll never understand people who think enjoyment means just being a passive sponge, that having questions about a narrative is some kind of condemnation. An enjoyable story is one that engages your mind and emotions enough that you want to know more, want to ask questions. You ask questions because you're interested.
 
Christopher said:
IAsking questions raised by a story is part of the enjoyment of a story. I'll never understand people who think enjoyment means just being a passive sponge, that having questions about a narrative is some kind of condemnation. An enjoyable story is one that engages your mind and emotions enough that you want to know more, want to ask questions. You ask questions because you're interested.
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Understanding that - in a mostly FANTASY story, that not everything will be explained (either because they didn't have time in the 5 hours; or they didn't think it added to the overall needs of the main story they are ultimately to tell, etc); doesn't make me a "passive sponge" - it just means I'm not going to worry about or need every single mcguffin being neatly explained to enjoy the overall story. YMMV of course.
 
Mr. Adventure said:
I get the sense that the president was intended to be Lynda Carter but something fell through.
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It seems like that happened a lot. Carter also did NOT appear in the movie, and probably not in WW84.



dodge said:
Yeah, a random President seemed a bit out of place, I feel it would have been better if maybe they had gotten Cat or Lois to do the TV speech.
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Christopher said:
It might be a recast Susan Brayden, who was Earth-1's US President at the end of Invasion!

In any case, I think they just wanted to reassure us that it wasn't Trump. ;)
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Hopefully they will clear it up...they will have to figure out who was president and when. I am not going to put much thought into it, but hope it gets cleared up

Although they were definitely positioning Kara-Kate as the replacement for the Barry-Oliver friendship, so maybe it's not a trinity anymore so much as a... quadrinity?

.
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Hoping a Quintity with Black Lightining. We had #OscarsSOWHite and #DemocratsSOWHite this week... hoping it would NOT be #DCTVsoWhite




Greg Cox said:
At first I thought the new President was Annette O'Toole (from SMALLVILLE and SUPERMAN III), but I was mistaken. Does seem like a wasted opportunity for another fun cameo by someone.
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Very true...but wondering if they didn't have time to figure out the new presidency history for Earth Prime

TREK_GOD_1 said:
That, and the entire premise of how metahumans exist in Black Lightning's world; from the start, it was ASA experiments with Green Light that created Jefferson's powers, the "pod kids," "pod prisoners," et al. That was hard established to the characters and government of that world and completely different than anything ever seen on the CW-DC shows. This weak COIE-In-Title-Only merger creates hard continuity conflicts with the way Jefferson's entire world operates, and why there's a ASA/Markovian/Black Lightning/Green Light-as-street-drug conflict in the first place.

...and that's not even addressing how the worldview/politics/character identity of all things Black Lightning are truly worlds apart from typical CW-DC, just as the Akils, Scott, et al., meant it to be.
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The world in CHICAGO are vastly different, from economic and education , for 2 sides compared to the other 2 sides.

I can see it where Freeland gets their rights run over...too many messages for me to keep up, but as someone here did say... Freeland would be MORE vulnerable to getting rights violated than other cities

Kirk Prime said:
The line in the trailer doesn't jibe with that, but one fair point is that they may explain it.

It would be a mistake not to keep the multiverse. Yes, in the comics, they did that consciously, but they learned over time that they needed the multiverse. Too many possibilities.



This is a very big point, but it's also an opportunity. I wasn't a real fan of how BL has portrayed the people. It's clear that BL existed on an Earth where the US Constitution does not exist, at least not the way it does in our world.

The Freeland isolation story is preposterous unless you accept that. This new Earth could of course have Jefferson deal with similar issues, but the degree that we have seen things on BL is harder to swallow than a guy shooting lightning from his hands.

I hope the writers are up to the challenge of changing things to fit it all into one world, rather than having a few comments about the Crisis and then pretending nothing ever happened.

If they don't, there will be lots of room to nitpick.



Would that be true NOW though?
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They ARE keeping the multiverse...just putting together heroes that WERE a part of ONE universe for like 2 generations (at least). Plenty of room for alternate universes... I am hoping for a comic-Earth 3 crossover...I mean they kinda did it with Earth X...but maybe moreso next time. Or Maybe Earth X villains teaming up with Earth 3?
TREK_GOD_1 said:
It was just a stunt cameo. There is no official announcement that the DCEU is connected to anything else because until said official announcement comes around...its not.
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TREK_GOD_1 said:
Black Lightning exists in "our" world, hence the numerous references to real U.S. Presidents, known historical and cultural figures / events, authors, etc. That was the intent of the Akils, Scott, et al., when creating the series--that it was set in the "real world" as it would address serious, real world issues (as a matter of daily life) through the fantasy lens. That sets it apart from the common CW-DC series.

One of the only ways of doing that was to avoid the rather silly "beast/gimmick of the week" format used by other series, as there's no way to sell a series as realistic with many of the things seen on other shows. Batwoman is next in line as a series that plays it close to reality, as no aired episode had dipped into the wild, cartoon plots and/or set-up of how their world operates.
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You can do "real world" WITHOUT T@rump or other references. I mean, Tobias' rants can be done with or without many "real world" people.

And how "grounded" can Black Lightning be, with Jennifer having "godlike" powers, a gazillion metas running around, and Jefferson not being fired form his job the first 2 seasons, with all of his absences. (Even "real world" teachers unions ain't THAT powerful)

Guy Gardener said:
The Reverse Flash can survive the collapse of his own personal timeline. He's got extra protection some how, or no one told Eddie Thawne that he was adopted. He should have also faded out when Nora faded out, so Time is having some trouble erasing the bugger.

Nash Wells, is now the Wells of Earth Prime. Harrison Wells isn't a thing, so he never should have invented Star labs, but if Tess, Well's wife had founded Star Labs then the reverse Flash "disguised" himself as a woman for nearly 20 years?

No Eobard Thawne hiding as Harrison Wells, then Eddie lives, then Iris marries Eddie.

The Paragon of Love ain't got no love.
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how do we know that Nash just didn't get stuck due to his involvement? Kinda like Kal-L in the original Crisis? Or that he hopped worlds and got stuck on Earth Prime. Whatever the case, I hope they get rid of him by the end of the season

Christopher said:
Anyway, now that the universes of Earth-1 and Earth-38 have been blended into a single history, we'll never get a chance to explore my theory about why the two worlds were so different. I often noted that a startlingly high number of the alien immigrants on Earth-38 were refugees fleeing conquest and tyranny, which implied that something out there was wreaking havoc unchecked in that universe. So maybe the reason Earth-1 didn't have all those aliens living on it was because something was preventing that conquest and chaos. So I figured the difference was that Earth-1's universe had a Green Lantern Corps (we got several hints that Hal Jordan existed there and had gone missing) while Earth-38's didn't. Maybe that's even why Earth-1 didn't have a Superman or Supergirl -- maybe its version of Tomar-Re was successful at preventing Krypton's destruction.
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@Christopher (and/or our other writers like @Greg Cox ) You should apply to be a writer for the shows... or some kind of novel tie-in....


+===

Man… @TREK_GOD_1 Really goes to extremes. He gives nearly every episode an A+ (while I think it is an “A” series, not EVERY episode hits it THAT high). Man, a “D” for this? My OVERALL assessment would be a B. (More on my thoughts on Black Lightning later) . Now, a lot of that is my extreme love for easter eggs and respect of previous DC universe media. It's what made me have such a love of the Flash TV show from even before it officially began.


I think said it best – a lot of great moments, but the overall story and certain key things were not that great.


Regarding Ezra Miller appearing as Flash – now, I was one, who REALLY thought they could integrate the TV show with Film Universe Justice League. But I have grown to like Ezra’s Flash…certainly NEEDED as part of the mix of that group. And Ezra the actor has been saying early on “Multiverse!” .. mainly to justify 2 Flashes at the same time, but I think really tried to connect with fans. SO for him to appear in Crisis, is just perfect. A great reward for his advocacy from the jump.

Ryan Choi (and thus the actor Osric) is really cool... seems like a sincerely nice guy, and a good balance to angry/sarcastic members of the LEGENDS. Hope they can use him well.

Seeing Marv in a cameo was awesome… but he also seemed A LOT like from Mr. Robot (but a polar opposite)

The Legends episode was soooo Legends…with Beebo (which actually wasn’t THAT crazy considering). However, dispappointing we barely saw theLegends themselves other than Sara.


So those of us who wanted the merger won out, despite all the naysaying. Now, I totally agree.. why would Earth-BL be a part of the merger? I understand 1 and 38

Now, with the new Earth 2… I am wondering if THAT will be more like the Earth 2 of the comics, and maybe that is where Jay Garrick is now? Because it seems like a “Justice Society” type of world, with an older generation of Superheroes.

And if so, it would be nice to have an Earth 3 with evil versions of our heroes. SO possibly the next cross over is fighting evil versions of themselves? (Or maybe some variation with the “evil” people fighting NOT they doppelganger but someone else…to save on money).

My big “concerns” would be things like

1. Shadow Demons – Sooooo NON menacing. No one dies, or heck, even really gets hurt (other than Ollie). Really pointless, other than an excuse to fight. I mean, like , how did Ryan Choi NOT get beat up? It LOOKED menacing, with so many…but this should have been a WORLDWIDE fight…having EVERY person, try to fight, like the New Yorkers in Spiderman. Something where it had a reason to fight them. ANd didn't they look a whole lot like Time Wraiths?

2. Monitor – didn’t really show why he was a “monitor”. Great actor for the role…just not written very well. EVen worse with the ANti-monitor (though I DO appreciate the swipes at the name)

3. Pariah – even worse. The squandered him. All we got was basically another version of Harry Wells. We SHOULD have had him phase in and out…Earth 1 for sure, but maybe even on the other shows, even in the background, or watching a scene in the show… he SHOULD have been someone who was sorrowful/depressed the whole time… something NEW for Tom Cavanugh to to portray. And him "releasing" the Monitor made NO sense... since he was apparently wiping out universe waaaaay before then

The stuff like Green Arrow being the first hero… I personally would just handwave it , and let it go. We KNOW it’s really about him being the first ARROWVERSE hero, and we can make other excuses (like maybe he is the first to reveal his TRUE identity… Superman, Batman, and Black Lightning still have SECRET identities)


Oh, and Gleek, and the SUperfriends reference…yes, corny, but this was LEGENDS, and moreso, just being the fan from watching Superfriends on Saturday morning, and seeing the “real life” Hall of Justice…that was just awesome.


Regarding How this affects Black Lightning, which @tre is so adamant that it will ruin everything.

I really do NOT think so.


Crossoverwise, I look forward to Jefferson, Joe and Henderson getting together and talking stuff like being the dad of a superhero, being a black police officer (the good and bad), and just generally be a good friendship, and hopefully teach white audience some things in a subtle way. Also Lynn and Iris will have some things to discuss as well.

In regards to how what is happening in Freeland affects other heroes and such…. I would hope they bring up racism in that some places in America while others seem to be forgotten. In real life, the contrast in development in the Downtown and North Side area of Chicago as opposed to the South and West side. SO that could easily explain why the heroes concentrate in other series, and why Freeland seems isolated.

And @TREK_GOD_1 glosses over that both Winter SOlider and Black Panther are IN THE SAME WORLD as Ant Man and Guardians... but like the MCU, they characters might not look their "best" in a crossover, but in their OWN vehicle, they will be who they are "supposed" to be. The merger does NOT mean the white writers will take over plots and dialogue of Black Lightning... but just makes the crossovers easier, and more people involved.

I DO agree that BL seemed waaaaay too upbeat in the corssover considering the situation he was in. Is it possible that Crisis episode 5 appearance is actually AFTER the BL season 3 storyline? When Kara woke up, it could really be ANY time, right? No reason for it to be in Dec 2019, right? Also, BL’s dialogue really sounded like a white guy wrote it.


So again, my overall assessment… very weak story/villain wise. But a WHOLE lot of fun, with some awesome surprises. I had a lot of fun sharing the background info with my daughter. Oh, and I love being right about the merger ;)
 
I think Ezra Miller's Flash being in this is just the kind of moment that justifies things like how the movies are sort of connected but not since we will now have two different Batman's and we might have two different Superman's but Aquaman and Wonder Woman and The Flash will be the same. Also it allows them to recast Lex Luthor later if they want as well.


Jason
 
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