Yet still would be in complete control. No one can come or go without the Federation’s blessing.
Honestly, I would’ve moved the Ba’ku. If they wanted a say, they should’ve poked their head up every once in a while.
Insurrection is a good film
- Thread starter ConRefit79
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Yet still would be in complete control. No one can come or go without the Federation’s blessing.
Honestly, I would’ve moved the Ba’ku. If they wanted a say, they should’ve poked their head up every once in a while.
Yeah, there might be some planets that are like "interstellar Switzerlands" that are located in the middle of "Federation space" but decline to join the UFP.
Kor
Each to their own, and I'm glad some people can get enjoyment out of it, but it's an awful film in my view.
I was embarrassed to have taken people to see it. It's cringeworthy, generic, shallow and lacking in redeeming features which I can usually find even in the worst Trek.
I was embarrassed to have taken people to see it. It's cringeworthy, generic, shallow and lacking in redeeming features which I can usually find even in the worst Trek.
Except the Federation did claim the planet, dougherty specifically states this as the reason the son'a allied with the Federation. The planet was practically uninhabited and The federation does consider 'uninhabited' worlds within its borders as federation territory. Its why Picard was willing to risk a shooting war with romulans over galorndon core which was a total shithole compared to the ba'ku planet .
Well, you have Troi and Riker finally getting back together after seven seasons and two movies being separated and dating other people. That could qualify as a major turning point in their lives.
Also, there is the main plot of the movie. Picard disobeys orders from a superior officer and resigns his command. His officers join him, starting the insurrection mentioned in the title. However, the movie might have been better if it had paid more attention to the main plot. For example, they should have given the evil admiral (can't remember his name) his own starship. Then we would have seen the Enterprise fighting another Federation ship, and that battle would have given us more drama, more explosions and probably a better movie.
The call for high stakes gave us the 'end of all life in the multiverse' and 'end of all life in the galaxy' threats of Disco S1 and 2, though...
That was definitely taking it to the extreme, though.
I can consider a film like "TSFS" to be "high stakes" because it involves one life- but that of a character we care deeply about. I think writers make the mistake of assuming high stakes means the end of all life everywhere. It's all about the skill in setting the stakes up as something the audience cares about.
This is where INS was a letdown. They tried it with Yorktown Base in Star Trek Beyond and did a better job, but still missed the mark somewhat.
It's not a battle that would've made it better. Picard does disobey orders and takes off his pips. But. Admiral Dougherty is pretty clearly in the wrong and once Picard exposes what's going on with the Son'a and the Baku, that's the end of it.
If Picard was arguing with Dougherty over something a little more murky, besides "forced relocation is wrong", and we could see both points of view, that would've made a difference. If it wasn't obvious that Starfleet would side with Picard once they knew what was really going on, that would've added jeopardy. By making everything so black-and-white, you know that Picard is going to come out on top with no problem at all. While it's true we always know the heroes come out on top, it has to be hard. There has to be a point where the outlook seems grim. The challenge has to look like it'll be difficult to overcome.
By contrast, in TSFS, when Kirk disobeys orders, it doesn't look too good at the end of the movie. In TVH, they're lucky the Probe came along, threatening Earth's survival. Otherwise, Kirk and his crew would've ended up in serious trouble.
And just to show how inconsequential the Son'a's ketrecel white was to the war effort: on DS9, Damar says it's been discovered and then Weyoun shrugs it off. It was all minor and small-scale. They got their Mandatory Reference to the new movie out of the way and moved on to the more serious business.
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Exactly. It isn't a big philosophical battle. It's a crazy admiral of the week plot extended in to a movie.
Dougherty wasn't "obviously wrong." And the Federation council only ordered a review.
The Federation didn't know that the Son'a and the Baku were related. Dougherty dragged the Federation into the internal affairs of another society. Something the Federation looks down on.
Basically, the Federation would've gotten the Baku off their planet for the Son'a and now they're aiding someone who has ketrecel white, which an enemy depends on. Maybe the Federation Council thought they could cut off a supply of ketrecel white to the Dominion but if the Son'a were already supplying the Dominion with ketrecel white, they wouldn't just sit back while the Son'a switch who they're partners with. They'd want to fight to keep the Son'a on their side, turning the Briar Patch into another warfront. The debate over whatever the Federation Council reviewed is the real conflict in Insurrection. They should've brought that out more.
Then you're having a debate about the Dominion War but now it's actually being done on TNG terms where Picard has to fight to make his case. Or, to make it not so focused on the Dominion or DS9, it can just be a general "enemies of the Federation" argument.
Replace ketrecel white with something else that would give the Federation a tactical advantage and expand the focus to more than just the Dominion. They can reference the Borg, the Romulans, who the TNG Fans are familiar with, and then name-drop the Dominion as an easter egg for the Niners in the audience. And then the question becomes: Should the Federation break the Prime Directive to triumph against their enemies or will they have lost what really matters in the process? "Are there other ways?", Picard can ponder, and now this story feels relevant to Star Trek at large because the immediate situation they're dealing is just a microcosm for something larger in-universe. And it lets Picard test his moral metal.
In DS9 or DSC, the story would favor "the ends justify the means". But Insurrection is TNG, so it's going to favor the opposite side of the argument. So Picard being Picard alone means you would've gotten a story that wouldn't have been told on DS9 with him dealing with an issue he didn't have to deal with in the TV series.
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I would imagine there are 47 sub-sections of the Prime Directive for a reason. The fact that the Federation ordered a review, and not an outright standing down of the situation means there is some question about the morality of what was going on. I think that was Michael Piller's way of letting the audience know that.
I maintain that once the Baku-Son'a connection was revealed that the whole thing should have been considered an internal matter between them and the Feds should have buggered off. The Klingon Civil War established this as a precedent.
And I'd still like to know how the Baku managed to kick the Son'a off the planet in the first place yet apparently were threatened by them this time around.
One could appreciate the irony that after all the jokes people made about TNG being all about discussions in conference rooms, this was exactly the kind of situation that would have benefited from some discussions in conference rooms.
And I'd still like to know how the Baku managed to kick the Son'a off the planet in the first place yet apparently were threatened by them this time around.
One could appreciate the irony that after all the jokes people made about TNG being all about discussions in conference rooms, this was exactly the kind of situation that would have benefited from some discussions in conference rooms.
Picard actually violates the Prime Directive by interfering with the S'ona deciding to off them and take the particles.
The PD doesn't apply to warp-capable civilizations
What ever the non-interference directive is sure does. It was used to stop Picard from intervening in the Klingon Civil War until he could prove an outside influence was at play.
The PD includes prohibitions on interfering in the internal affairs of societies, as Bill noted.
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Prime_Directive
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Prime_Directive
It is an oddity. Because Admiral Shanthi doesn't mention the Prime Directive in "Redemption", she just mentions the non-interference directive. I can't remember if Picard ever actually mentions it either.