Insurrection is a good film

[Kor]

The Ba'ku settled there long before it became Federation territory. It was Klingon space for a while before the Feds got it. Why would they not have the right to settle if it was unclaimed then?

Yes, a planet doesn't automatically belong to the Federation just because it happens to fall within Federation space. The Federation is a coalition of member planets, not a geographical zone.

Kor

 

[USS Firefly]

Never was going to happen. Not in a million years. I knew that back then, and it still makes sense now.

Buy maybe in two million years.
I think It would be awesome to see the Enterprise visit DS9 and do something with the Dominion war.

 

[Vger23]

Buy maybe in two million years.
I think It would be awesome to see the Enterprise visit DS9 and do something with the Dominion war.

Too fanwanky for a major motion picture. No general audience appeal.

 

[Lord Garth]

It would be hard to have a Dominion War film starring the TNG cast. First because the Dominion wasn't TNG's enemy and second, they couldn't win the war, so it would be Just Another Battle in a war that TNG viewers who didn't watch DS9 wouldn't see the beginning or end of. If you have two back-to-back war films, TNG fans would've complained "TNG wasn't about war!" and they'd be right. They didn't need to make it about a war, but the story didn't have a large enough scope.

The story should've been -- the story should always be -- high stakes, major turning points in the character's lives, and a sense of real jeopardy. GEN, FC, and NEM had all of those. INS had none of them.

 

[Khan 2.0]

The story should've been -- the story should always be -- high stakes, major turning points in the character's lives, and a sense of real jeopardy. GEN, FC, and NEM had all of those. INS had none of them.

maybe INS couldve been a mirror verse movie? (could've led on direct from FC - they go through Geordis timetravel wormhole into mirror land - cue Ent E v Ent D, Picard v Picard etc - Mirror Mirror meets Yesterdays Enterprise)

 

[Alexander Corrino]

maybe INS couldve been a mirror verse movie? (could've led on direct from FC - they go through Geordis timetravel wormhole into mirror land - cue Ent E v Ent D, Picard v Picard etc - Mirror Mirror meets Yesterdays Enterprise)

THAT would have been AWESOME... and much better than what we got. I've always wanted to see Mirror Jean-Luc on screen, and the BIG screen would have been even better.

 

[Vger23]

It would be hard to have a Dominion War film starring the TNG cast. First because the Dominion wasn't TNG's enemy and second, they couldn't win the war, so it would be Just Another Battle in a war that TNG viewers who didn't watch DS9 wouldn't see the beginning or end of. If you have two back-to-back war films, TNG fans would've complained "TNG wasn't about war!" and they'd be right. They didn't need to make it about a war, but the story didn't have a large enough scope.

The story should've been -- the story should always be -- high stakes, major turning points in the character's lives, and a sense of real jeopardy. GEN, FC, and NEM had all of those. INS had none of them.

Yes.

It's like I've said many times. They purposefully STROVE to make a meaningless movie. It was a philosophy of "we've done a bunch of heavy lifting over the last two films...we should lighten up a bit! It worked for Star Trek IV, right??"

But, the difference is that TVH was a part of a bigger whole, and continued the "Genesis Trilogy." It also had very high stakes and solidified major developments in the ongoing story/characters:

1. Spock's reintegration into normal life
2. Kirk's demotion to Captain
3. Having a new Enterprise to take them on adventures.

Insurrection had Picard dancing, Worf getting a zit, and Troi's boobs firming up. That "lighten things up" approach wasn't a formula that was going to work again under the circumstances that existed in 1998.

 

[-Brett-]

It's funny the way this movie simply cannot come up here without Star Trek fans arguing, through metaphor, that the US displacement and genocide of the Native Americans was a good thing.

Star Trek fans are racist. Who knew?

 

[Tenacity]

How many people does it take

How many people would it help?

The Ba'ku settled there long before it became Federation territory.

Never placed any weight into the "the Baku got there first" position.

that the US displacement and genocide of the Native Americans was a good thing.

No parallels, the Baku were refugees, numbered in the hundreds, and had been on the planet just a few centuries Plus there no on-screen indication that they claimed the planet.

 

[Vger23]

It's funny the way this movie simply cannot come up here without Star Trek fans arguing, through metaphor, that the US displacement and genocide of the Native Americans was a good thing.

Star Trek fans are racist. Who knew?

Wow...people who post stupid crap on the internet blow hyperbole and wild leaps of illogic out their rear-ends to illicit drama and attention.

Who knew?

 

[ConRefit79]

"My God Bones! What have I done?"

I was just saying by itself, I think Insurrection is a better film than I initially gave it credit for when it premiered. But then again, I still like The Final Frontier. So perhaps I have weird taste in films.

I do like how this is not a revenge on the Federation, Crew or a specific show character film. Our heroes just got caught up in something bad. And their organization appears to have lost its morals. But our heroes fight for their principles.

 

[Lord Garth]

Someone said something and is off his rocker, but he's best ignored. So anyway...

Yes.

It's like I've said many times. They purposefully STROVE to make a meaningless movie. It was a philosophy of "we've done a bunch of heavy lifting over the last two films...we should lighten up a bit! It worked for Star Trek IV, right??"

But, the difference is that TVH was a part of a bigger whole, and continued the "Genesis Trilogy." It also had very high stakes and solidified major developments in the ongoing story/characters:

1. Spock's reintegration into normal life
2. Kirk's demotion to Captain
3. Having a new Enterprise to take them on adventures.

Insurrection had Picard dancing, Worf getting a zit, and Troi's boobs firming up. That "lighten things up" approach wasn't a formula that was going to work again under the circumstances that existed in 1998.

Also the fact that Earth itself was put in danger. So Kirk now saved Earth twice. And the Klingon Ambassador's definitive declaration that "There shall be no peace as long as Kirk lives!" Sarek even gets some development. He finally realizes he was wrong about being so against Spock joining Starfleet. TVH, despite being light-hearted, is a pivotal entry into the series.

I like to think Micheal Piller's original concept for Insurrection being based on Joseph Conrad's 1899 book Heart of Darkness could've become something that wasn't so disposable. It's just too bad whatever he originally wanted to do got lost in the process.

 

[-Brett-]

Wow...people who post stupid crap on the internet blow hyperbole and wild leaps of illogic out their rear-ends to illicit drama and attention.

Who knew?

So defensive. It's okay, little Adolph. The scary savages are mostly gone and can't hurt you. Now go enjoy your cross burning.

 

[NCC-73515]

So defensive. It's okay, little Adolph. The scary savages are mostly gone and can't hurt you. Now go enjoy your cross burning.

Who's that?

 

[Lord Garth]

You know... I don't think I've been fair. Insurrection isn't entirely inconsequential. It's the film where Riker and Troi finally got back together. It's important, maybe not to the film, but it's important to them. So there you go.

Of other note: here's the synopsis for Heart of Darkness. Interesting stuff.

Heart of Darkness centers around Marlow, an introspective sailor, and his journey up the Congo River to meet Kurtz, reputed to be an idealistic man of great abilities. Marlow takes a job as a riverboat captain with the Company, a Belgian concern organized to trade in the Congo. As he travels to Africa and then up the Congo, Marlow encounters widespread inefficiency and brutality in the Company’s stations. The native inhabitants of the region have been forced into the Company’s service, and they suffer terribly from overwork and ill treatment at the hands of the Company’s agents. The cruelty and squalor of imperial enterprise contrasts sharply with the impassive and majestic jungle that surrounds the white man’s settlements, making them appear to be tiny islands amidst a vast darkness.

Marlow arrives at the Central Station, run by the general manager, an unwholesome, conspiratorial character. He finds that his steamship has been sunk and spends several months waiting for parts to repair it. His interest in Kurtz grows during this period. The manager and his favorite, the brickmaker, seem to fear Kurtz as a threat to their position. Kurtz is rumored to be ill, making the delays in repairing the ship all the more costly. Marlow eventually gets the parts he needs to repair his ship, and he and the manager set out with a few agents (whom Marlow calls pilgrims because of their strange habit of carrying long, wooden staves wherever they go) and a crew of cannibals on a long, difficult voyage up the river. The dense jungle and the oppressive silence make everyone aboard a little jumpy, and the occasional glimpse of a native village or the sound of drums works the pilgrims into a frenzy.

Marlow and his crew come across a hut with stacked firewood, together with a note saying that the wood is for them but that they should approach cautiously. Shortly after the steamer has taken on the firewood, it is surrounded by a dense fog. When the fog clears, the ship is attacked by an unseen band of natives, who fire arrows from the safety of the forest. The African helmsman is killed before Marlow frightens the natives away with the ship’s steam whistle. Not long after, Marlow and his companions arrive at Kurtz’s Inner Station, expecting to find him dead, but a half-crazed Russian trader, who meets them as they come ashore, assures them that everything is fine and informs them that he is the one who left the wood. The Russian claims that Kurtz has enlarged his mind and cannot be subjected to the same moral judgments as normal people. Apparently, Kurtz has established himself as a god with the natives and has gone on brutal raids in the surrounding territory in search of ivory. The collection of severed heads adorning the fence posts around the station attests to his “methods.” The pilgrims bring Kurtz out of the station-house on a stretcher, and a large group of native warriors pours out of the forest and surrounds them. Kurtz speaks to them, and the natives disappear into the woods.

The manager brings Kurtz, who is quite ill, aboard the steamer. A beautiful native woman, apparently Kurtz’s mistress, appears on the shore and stares out at the ship. The Russian implies that she is somehow involved with Kurtz and has caused trouble before through her influence over him. The Russian reveals to Marlow, after swearing him to secrecy, that Kurtz had ordered the attack on the steamer to make them believe he was dead in order that they might turn back and leave him to his plans. The Russian then leaves by canoe, fearing the displeasure of the manager. Kurtz disappears in the night, and Marlow goes out in search of him, finding him crawling on all fours toward the native camp. Marlow stops him and convinces him to return to the ship. They set off down the river the next morning, but Kurtz’s health is failing fast.

Marlow listens to Kurtz talk while he pilots the ship, and Kurtz entrusts Marlow with a packet of personal documents, including an eloquent pamphlet on civilizing the savages which ends with a scrawled message that says, “Exterminate all the brutes!” The steamer breaks down, and they have to stop for repairs. Kurtz dies, uttering his last words—“The horror! The horror!”—in the presence of the confused Marlow. Marlow falls ill soon after and barely survives. Eventually he returns to Europe and goes to see Kurtz’s Intended (his fiancée). She is still in mourning, even though it has been over a year since Kurtz’s death, and she praises him as a paragon of virtue and achievement. She asks what his last words were, but Marlow cannot bring himself to shatter her illusions with the truth. Instead, he tells her that Kurtz’s last word was her name.

It would be interesting to put everything into TNG terms to see what it would look like if Insurrection followed this story more closely.

 

[Vger23]

So defensive. It's okay, little Adolph. The scary savages are mostly gone and can't hurt you. Now go enjoy your cross burning.

Ok bro. For some reason, you chose to accuse Trek fans of being racist and supporters of genocide. I called you on making unreasonable and completely inappropriate leaps, and this is how you respond?


I know everything I need to know now.

 

[Lord Garth]

So defensive. It's okay, little Adolph. The scary savages are mostly gone and can't hurt you. Now go enjoy your cross burning.

 

[BillJ]

Just no.

Pretty white people facing eminent domain was a terrible basis for a movie.

 

[BillJ]

Yes, a planet doesn't automatically belong to the Federation just because it happens to fall within Federation space. The Federation is a coalition of member planets, not a geographical zone.

Kor

The idea of borders and neutral zones would argue otherwise.

 

[Vger23]

The idea of borders and neutral zones would argue otherwise.

I think what he means though, is that there is a difference between "Federation Space" and "Federation Planets." A planet can be in Federation space, but the Federation has absolutely no claim or jurisdiction over them.