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Spoilers Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - Grading & Discussion

Grade the movie...


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Without going into the specifics of the scene in question, things would "fall." The ships are hovering above the planet--they are not even in orbit--so any object that someone put out a window would fall toward the planet. Moreover, any objects (particularly in the absence of friction) will fall toward one another. That's how gravity works.

I'm not sure about this. Yes, the bombs would eventually fall toward the Star Destroyer, but unless it had a mass equivalent to something like our moon, I'm not sure they would fall at the rate we saw them in the movie. In addition to a (I believe weak) gravitational pull from the SD, the bombs also had other vectors, most notably velocity, which I believe would have had a greater effect on the bomb's trajectory.

Again unless the star destroyer is more much massive than it appears, which is entirely possible, the gravitational pull would be something much smaller than what you would get on a planet, which really wouldn't change the bomb's path that much (forward velocity vs gravitational acceleration), at least not to the degree we saw in TLJ.

The bombs would almost certainly have had to be assisted by the bomber and perhaps even technology built into the bomb itself; and considering the setting of Star Wars, it makes sense. You're not always going to be bombing structures on a planet with 1G. Maybe one day you're bombing structures on an asteroid or spacestation with 1/100G. The next, floating cities in a gas giant with 10G. You can't leave the calculations to your error prone, carbon-based bombardier.
 
It doesn't matter what WOULD happen in real life. In fact, maybe in real life they would fall exactly as shown. What matters is whether people watching will accept what happens. Therein is the key to cinema. It's the reason that silencers on guns make a muffled sound when in reality they would hardly muffle the sound at all. People accept the convention. It takes filmmakers of high talent to make a film with no sound in space, lest in most cases doping so would make the film seem unfinished.

Let's say hypothetically that Neil Degrasse Tyson watches TLJ and agrees that "yes, the bombs would fall like that." You still have many many regular people people watching who say in an exasperated tone "you can't drop bombs in space." These people might be wrong scientifically but they are not wrong in terms of what works and what doesn't work.
 
It doesn't matter what WOULD happen in real life.
Real life often informs our expectations, so it matters a little bit.

Also, I can readily accept many different filming conventions. But, guess what? This is a Star Trek forum were nitpicking and pulling apart is the menu of the day. So, people are going to go off of their real life experience.

Regardless, what amuses me more, is the fact that all the things that happened in the ST happened in prior films or in EU books with nary a complaint. Put it on film and everyone looses their minds...:wtf:
 
I'm not sure about this. Yes, the bombs would eventually fall toward the Star Destroyer, but unless it had a mass equivalent to something like our moon, I'm not sure they would fall at the rate we saw them in the movie. In addition to a (I believe weak) gravitational pull from the SD, the bombs also had other vectors, most notably velocity, which I believe would have had a greater effect on the bomb's trajectory.
Hence, the first phrase in my post.
 
It doesn't matter what WOULD happen in real life. In fact, maybe in real life they would fall exactly as shown. What matters is whether people watching will accept what happens. Therein is the key to cinema. It's the reason that silencers on guns make a muffled sound when in reality they would hardly muffle the sound at all. People accept the convention. It takes filmmakers of high talent to make a film with no sound in space, lest in most cases doping so would make the film seem unfinished.

Let's say hypothetically that Neil Degrasse Tyson watches TLJ and agrees that "yes, the bombs would fall like that." You still have many many regular people people watching who say in an exasperated tone "you can't drop bombs in space." These people might be wrong scientifically but they are not wrong in terms of what works and what doesn't work.

The bombing sequence was the least of my problems with TLJ. SW has often played fast and loose with science (as has numerous movies and TV shows), but I still enjoy it. It was a cool looking sequence and crafted a plot for Rose.
 
Things like the bombs I have to give the "it works cuz Star Wars" pass. Like how BB-8 can fix electric shorts in the X-wing by sticking his head into them and doors open when you shoot the control panel.
I think you can be more specific: if you have accepted how combat is portrayed in terms of early WWII air combat, you shouldn't have too much trouble accepting how bombing is represented.
 
If the Star Destroyer is holding everything in place at 1G, then from the proper axis, the bombs should fall towards it.
 
Bombs being dropped from above in space was already established with the TIE bombers in The Empire Strikes Back, so I don't know why people made such a big stink about it in TLJ. I was more annoyed by the turbolasers arcing in space even though that's not how turbolasers have ever worked in any of the other movies. (Ships suddenly stopping and listing in space after they run out of fuel is pretty dumb, too, but this is a world in which sonic bombs work in space, so whatever I guess.)
 
To be fair, I never thought of the TIE bombers having free-falling bombs and I think there was enough leeway visually to allow for various mechanisms to be possible. They probably could've shown some sort of propulsion field or something without much trouble but I think they probably thought the gravity(ha!) of the moment was enough to work.
 
The stuff with Luke, Rey and kylo ren in The Last Jedi was the highlight of the entire trilogy. Johnson hit the nail on the head when he had Luke explain that the Jedi were responsible for the rise of the Sith and that they deserved to be swept into the dustbin of history. Luke seeing the cycle repeating itself with Ben and wanting to break the circle was an entirely believable reaction. His single moment of weakness made him only human, and a character that is human is far more interesting than a character that is a legend.

The rest of The Last Jedi, now that was garbage.
I couldn't disagree more. IMO Ryan Johnson did a complete character assassination of the character archetype of Luke Skywalker and revelled in doing it because he felt it abandoned fan expectations and that's all he was interested in. He wasn't really interested in telling a good story or a good Star Wars story.

And let's not even talk about the fact that a fleet of a star destroys can't even take out a lone transport, and it's all done for some lame space Vegas subplot that again is just utter crap.

I consider TLJ the worst film in the franchise. YMMV of course.
 
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Mines just sit there.

Missiles are propelled.

Torpedoes are under water.

Bombs fall.

Novels talked about using gravity wells to cut off access to light speed.

So, star destroyers might be generating 4 to 5 G to hold down the enemy.
 
(Ships suddenly stopping and listing in space after they run out of fuel is pretty dumb, too, but this is a world in which sonic bombs work in space, so whatever I guess.)

That’s actually probably the most realistic aspect of the space flight sequences; the ships are burning fuel, therefore they’re accelerating, so while it appears the ships that go dead are slowing down relative to the other ships, it’s more that the other ships are now overtaking them. The listing, likewise, since all the ships have more than one engine, and if they all went dry at slightly different times, the ships would go into a tumble.
 
I couldn't disagree more. IMO Ryan Johnson did a complete character assassination of the character archetype of Luke Skywalker and revelled in doing it because he felt it abandoned fan expectations and that's all he was interested in. He wasn't really interested in telling a good story or a good Star Wars story.

This. His stated subverting OT SW--the franchise's most important character in particular--was one of his obsessions (along with maintaining the ST's terrible new characters like Finn). But in the bigger picture, it fits with so many creative/ideological failings of the ST.

And let's not even talk about the fact that a fleet of a star destroys can't even take out a loan transport: and it's all done for some lame space Vegas subplot that again is just utter crap.

Oh, you mean the childish, would-be TV/30-second PSA-esque commentary on the rich and animal rights? How effective. They really made such a point...not really.

I consider TLJ the worst film in the franchise.

Even the PT never sank that low.
 
I'd have to disagree with you on this somewhat. I think Disney is the best thing to happen to star wars when they hire the right people for the franchise. As evidenced by The Mandolorian. However I think Disney dropped the ball in regards to the Skywalker Saga. The Force Awaken was a strong start to the prequel trilogy and I love Rey, she's not a mary sue, there i said it. But I think they royally fudged up letting Rian Johnson anywhere near the franchise.
I think the mistake was giving The Rise of Skywalker to JJ Abrams. I really enjoyed TFA and by itself I enjoyed TRoS, but the way the tone and story jumping back and forth between those two and The Last Jedi is kind of odd. I think they should have found another new director after Colin Trevorrow dropped out of TRoS, because then each movie would have had it's own tone and style.
So, after being exposed as an ass who made one racist assumption after another, you double down with more BS that illustrates just how ignorant you are about this entire matter. Few have buried themselves so deeply by doubling down on racist attacks.



Yes, because defending a sequel to the point of attempting to minimize or dismiss valid issues and/or demeaning others (this thread is overflowing with pro-TROS members doing jus that) is what matters. Yeah. Sure.



Thank you for your reality-based insight on the Finn matter. So many had the same reaction, with some becoming visibly angry that in a film establishing a set of new heroes, the one black male was a shame-inducing throwback to Old Hollywood's enforced, racist portrayal of black males.



Agreed about Rose's influence; from the start of TLJ, Finn was a bumbling fool who "needed" to be pulled by the nose; for a so-called "hero" from the events of the previous film, he exhibited no traits of one who had come into his own. There was no developmental evidence of his acknowledge any growth / attempt to reclaim a lost identity. It was in truth:

"well, we have this black fool character, and we have to do something with him, so concoct this pointless side story where he's wrapped up in a shallow, in-name-only commentary animal rights, yet Finn never, ever has scenes where his life and the effects of being kidnapped as a child are ever explored in his struggle against the antagonists. Yeah..that'll work, or whatever."



Indeed.Like Mantan Moreland or "Rochester", he was a Black Buffoon spending most of his time being subservient to everyone else (when he wasn't stumbling, running away and knocked around), with a stereotypical subservient job in sanitation, because ...of course that had to be his job. He never had anything coming close to a sense of discovered pride in who he was (never referencing his original life, or even suspecting what it could have been the way ROTJ-Leia had memories of her mother) or unique voice of his own. Despite Boyega's billing among the new cast, he was a treated like a throwaway supporting character never created to be treated like anything close to a strong character who had a real purpose in that series.



...and coming from the entertainment business which is very liberal at a near 100% level, it says much that black characters--especially males are cast in prominent properties end up marginalized/tokenized (James Olsen/Supergirl), or deliberately placed in a racially demeaning role (Finn/Star Wars sequels).



Its clear that he did. After seeing what Disney/LFL did with a new black "lead" character in TFA, there were feelings of outrage, while others--who had been Star Wars fans since the OT years--were now completely turned off to the series. I've had conversations with friends who feel they were disrespected by Disney/newLFL in the creation/use of Finn, and they were.



This is something that led to heated reactions from many black audience members--the runaway slave knows nothing, allows someone else to name him, direct his actions, and Finn did not have as much a single emotion of protest to someone else giving him whatever they deemed appropriate.

Beyond offensive.



Yes, as I've said time after time about what he should have been, beingThe punchline of making him a janitor (as opposed to say an engineer working on Starkiller Base) was too good for Disney not to use.

Utterly stripped of dignity. He was such an Old Hollywood racial stereotype that the only thing left for Finn to do was to break out in a dance, while singing how "Happys I's is ta' be a janitor, suh!"



Excellent comparison. For some, they have no historical awareness / empathy for the very people they spend every waking day claiming they support, otherwise, they would understand why some black audiences resented how Finn was created/used. Instead, there's one highly questionable defense of him after another.



Yes. As I've said, of the three main characters, Finn was the source of constant humor, while Rey was not by any stretch of the imagination, and Poe was that weak wanna-be mix of being NextGen / surrogate Han/Devil-may-care character, but not a clown.



No one. Few kids ever see buffoons as someone to be/emulate to any degree. That's not the nature of how kids think when looking at adults in heroic fiction.[/QUOTE]
You keep acting like the people behind the movies knew what they were doing with Finn and made him that way on purpose, and I'm just wondering if they've said or done anything outside of the movie to give you that idea. I'm not saying he isn't the way you say he is, but I'm just wondering why it couldn't have been an accidental thing rather than purposeful. Couldn't the people involved have just not been aware of what they were doing, rather than actually being racist?
I've never gotten the impression from anything I've heard about them that Kennedy, or Abrams, or any of the people involved in the movies are that racist.
 
I always wondered how Han, Leia, and Chewie were able to walk out into the Space Worm's mouth with just that little mask and connecting gadget, while the rest of their body is exposed to the void of space.

I just assume that the stomach of the exogorth supports an oxygen atmosphere of some kind but also contains toxic gases that would be unbreathable without the respirator masks. In much the same way that the inside of the human body is cut off from most of the conditions existing on the outside of the body I imagine that the exogorth's digestive tract is free from the vacuum of space.
 
You keep acting like the people behind the movies knew what they were doing with Finn and made him that way on purpose

Yes, because well-seasoned, writers, directors and producers just have things happen with their scripts, and have no intent behind the characters they create. Not buying that. If they had a definite intent with Rey, they did with Finn. This was no production of random chance and accidents. No one is unaware of how they write characters, and the way they are meant to be presented and seen.
 
Are we referring to the TLJ sequence? The bombs are loaded on magnetic rails and pushed from the ship. Less "dropped" and more "launched."

Well that wasn't really mentioned in the movie so thanks for the explanation, I just felt gravity alone wouldn't have been enough.
 
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