Spoilers Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - Grading & Discussion
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
Makes sense. I thought the scenes we got weren't all that great.
If other scenes were worse then i'm glad they weren't included. Maybe more casual viewers wouldn't notice it as much as I did.
Yes, I had always read that there was supposed to be a scene with Leia confronting Kylo for the third film. They couldn't do it but they gave us the next best thing. Despite my problems with this movie I think they did a great job making it when you consider everything that happened.
Palpatine and Snoke were never the same being; Palpatine artificially created Snoke to be a 'puppet King' in charge of the First Order, but Snoke was an autonomous being capable of acting on his own agendas.
The entirety of which Lucas donated to education.
Last edited:
Aside from Vader (obviously) and Jyn, I have no idea who any of these people are. And I'm not joking. The characters are not just instantly forgettable, they are almost entirely inconsequential. Jyn is the most uninteresting and unlikable major character of the franchise, which is saying a lot after Episodes I-III.
With regard to Rise of Skywalker, I don't believe this was Palpatine in his original body. It seems that this Sith facility is a dedicated cloning lab. Obviously the Snoke clones back this up. And we know Palpatine had a knowledge and interest in cloning. I'm thinking that his original body was cloned, and is now a receptical for the Sith cult as well as Palpatine's original personality.
So much this.
I just don't understand the complete love for Rogue One. I get that the action sequences are amazing, but outside of it, what does this movie really have other than being set in the Star Wars universe? Say what you will about the sequels, they, and particularly TFA, got the tone right for a Star Wars film. I want to care about the heroes in these movies. I knew it was more than likely that all of these people had to die and I think the screenwriter(s) and director(s) did too. But make me care. Give me an emotional investment. It just didn't resonate with me. (And before anyone brings it up, I completely understand that some felt that way about the sequel trilogy. Everyone is allowed their opinion.)
Last edited:
With Rogue One I was genuinely impressed by the visuals and the design language. However, the characters also fell short for me. Jyn and Cassian are probably the closest, but even then they are fairly underdeveloped, to me.
I wanted to like them, but, as you say, I was not emotionally invested.
Precisely--instead of being the confirmed second hero of the ST, he was--out of the gates--diminished and hobbled by shackles in the form of making him a running stereotype overflowing with the Black Buffoon stereotypes of being consistently imbecilic, frightened, panting, having no personal, unique identity/perspective that shaped his own destiny (and in turn, is used to shape his environment), and he's a sanitation worker who just so happened to be in a trooper suit.
The new SW-PTB knew exactly what they were doing with Finn; this was not a case of writers "losing their way" or not knowing how to write him. They wanted a Black Buffoon, not a true second hero just as much as they knew how they wanted to check their "socially progressive" box to uplift every other category of character. But not the black male lead.
Again, Finn's true cinema heritage is hard wired in the Mantan Moreland / Stepin Fetchit / Eddie "Rochester" Anderson, et al., generation of black buffoon types--completely different than any of the top hero character ever created for the OT/PT (and before someone else in this thread--not meaning you--gets it twisted, Binks was not a top hero character of the PT).
Indeed; he was already a frightened sanitation worker--all that was left for him to do is flee, crashing through doors leaving the cut-out shape of his body in the tradition of many a 1930s/40s black buffoon character. That is the true legacy of the Star Wars sequel trilogy.
Lucas has repeatedly said--since the 1970s--that the prime reason behind making SW was to tell a kind of morality tale that was--at the time--buried in favor of morally ambiguous films overflowing with anti-heroes.
George Lucas: "I wanted it to be a traditional moral study, to have some sort of palpable precepts in it that children could understand." "There is always a lesson to be learned..."
That was his prime reason to make Star Wars, not profit or to be some throwaway "flick."
Last edited:
I must admit, I don't view Finn in this way. I view him as a fun, likable character who has some very serious emotional fears and issues brought about by his horrific "upbringing" that motivate a great deal of his behaviors. But, despite this horrific past, he's found a way to regain his humanity and has deep compassion and love for his friends, to the point where he finds himself capable of self-sacrifice by the end of TLJ. From my perspective, he's one of the most nuanced and enjoyable characters in the trilogy. He has a unique courage and a sense of love and compassion that is rare in SW.
This is just my opinion, and I am NOT looking to argue the point (and absolutely will not, so don't bother). I openly admit that I may have a very different sensitivity to things given that I am not a person of color, but I do not see the character the same way you do at all. In fact, I view Finn as a great, realistic role model of courage, compassion, and humor...someone who overcame a system of oppression and violence to find a way to begin to discover his own humanity and embrace his new-found brothers and sisters with great love.
At least you can admit that, but the champions of "socially progressive" ideology/presentation behind the current face of LFL do not, nor will they ever. They had a clear as day agenda in the offensive stereotype that was Finn, yet believe their platform uplifting other characters/categories provided them cover from accurate history/culturally-based analysis/criticism where a black man was concerned.
It did not.
I said I wouldn't get involved in a SW discusssion on this forum again, but .. fuck it.
finally got around to seeing Rise last night. Loved it. It was a lot of fun. It was about hope and friends and doing the right thing, and that's what a SW film ultimately should be about. Finn has become one of my more favorite characters in the franchise, and I was glad to see him really get his movie this time.
A
finally got around to seeing Rise last night. Loved it. It was a lot of fun. It was about hope and friends and doing the right thing, and that's what a SW film ultimately should be about. Finn has become one of my more favorite characters in the franchise, and I was glad to see him really get his movie this time.
A
Same here but this is far outside my experience so I'll just let the point be.
Yeah, Lucas (like GR in the 1970ies on) has said a lot of stuff (like the above) I call bullshit on.
For example: he'll never admit that the main reason he HATES the original version of STAR WARS (1977) (which his wife at the time edited it into the movie we know and love today as his initial and original edit of the film made it come across like you average B sci-fi flick) is because IN THE DIVORCE SETTLEMENT it was ruled community property (because of all editing work she did) - thus she was entitled to 50% of all profits from in in the present and future.
The "Remastered Edition" is all his profit wise.
Hm.... To me it came acros as Palpatine having always been in control, over what Snoke did as well. But I've only seen it once, maybe I'll catch more during a rewatch
Whether it was intentional or not, the writers handled Finn poorly. His character could have been the most compelling one in the ST, a war weary soldier deciding to make amends for his past. Someone with no true friends who constantly had to watch his back now learning to trust those around him. Maybe he could have been suffering from PTSD having witnessed the horrors committed by the First Order, and having to work through those types of issues. There were dozens of possible writing paths to take for an ex-soldier of the FO and allow for some real character development. Unfortunately, we didn’t get anything like that. Finn is largely the same character at the end of the trilogy that he was at the beginning. He did get a couple moments to shine in TFA, so I guess that’s something...
OK, that actually could explain a lot.
Great post.
Thank you, sir!
As I said, I fully admit that I may not have a full understanding of all the dynamics at work here, and how the situation might feel to others, but this was just my take on the character.
I know this will probably set some people off, but I still think it's noteworthy enough to share. I apologize for any annoying rants this sets off.
From comments made by The Rise of Skywalker co-writer Chris Terrio made during a recent interview, it sounds like Kathleen Kennedy might have been planning on briging Palpatine back all along.
From comments made by The Rise of Skywalker co-writer Chris Terrio made during a recent interview, it sounds like Kathleen Kennedy might have been planning on briging Palpatine back all along.
