Spoilers Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - Grading & Discussion

[Campe]

That's why I'm convinced that Rian Johnson purposely sabotaged Star Wars

Oh please.

What a fucking conspiracy theory! Do you understand that movies like this aren't made in a vacuum? That there are MANY levels to a production? That one man does not make EVERY SINGLE DECISION when it comes to film? Particularly a big franchise film at a big studio. Disney would not allow one man to sabotage a $4.7 billion investment. They have a fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders to make the best movie that they could make with the resources at hand. YOU just don't like the movie. Which is fine. But this is just a ludicrous idea.

 

[Crazyewok]

Oh please.

You like it. Good for you. Hell some people even like the phantom menace.

A lot of though dont and think Rian Johnson would of been better off with another franchise.
In fact I bet he could make a pretty good star trek film.

 

[BillJ]

Rey's parents were nobody's... (TRoS) well actually the dad was Palpy's son and he was protecting Rey from evil grandpa...

When you toss in "from a certain point of view...", these really don't conflict. Palpatine being Emperor makes his son nothing. It is what his son does that decides if he's "somebody". Rey was an orphan whose parents were nobodies in the grand scheme of things.

That's why I'm convinced that Rian Johnson purposely sabotaged Star Wars...

You were doing well, even if I didn't agree with you. Then the conspiracy non-sense gets tossed in. Rian Johnson made a movie. I think a pretty good one for the most part. Why would he try to sabotage his own career? The Mouse's reach is long.

 

[Campe]

You like it. Good for you. Hell some people even like the phantom menace.

A lot of though dont and think Rian Johnson would of been better off with another franchise.
In fact I bet he could make a pretty good star trek film.

Sorry, I accidentally quoted you. Didn't mean to do that. REGARDLESS, the idea that one filmmaker purposefully sabotaged a franchise is LUDICROUS!

 

[HugeLobes]

I dont think he did it on purpose.

I think Rian was just the wrong man for the wrong franchise. He just didn't "get" starwars.

He would of been better off making a star trek film or even his own sifi franchise.

I think he could have created something great if they gave him control over the entire trilogy. Kinda think he got Star Wars on a deeper level whereas JJ understood it on a surface level.

 

[fireproof78]

Johnson made a movie consistent with the mythological underpinnings of Star Wars. That people don't like doesn't make it less appropriate for Star Wars.

 

[HugeLobes]

The success of the OT was down to a genius combination of timeless mythology and light, fun space action adventure fare. I think Johnson understood the first part but wasn’t as successful with the second part. JJ got the second part but didn’t care so much about the first part.

 

[Reverend]

According to the article I read the other day, the forest was planted by the people who moved onto the planet after Vader was defeated. Apparently the planet used to have forests and they were trying to bring them back.

Since exactly zero of that information was in the movie, I'm more inclined to presume that making it Mustafar was a decision reached *after* the live action plate in the forest was shot. I mean it'd be like if they had a scene on a snow planet, but some reference book or comic mentions that it's really Tatooine that's since undergone a dramatic climate shift someone slammed a cometary belt into the equator that moved the planet into a more distance orbit from it's suns...

I wonder if Rey got her crystal from Lothal. Ilum and Jedha are both gone now. But there could be other worlds that have them.

IIRC Christophsis also had them and I'd be willing to bet just about every planet either the Sith or Jedi ever built a temple on too, or indeed any planet with a strong connection to the force. So probably Moraband, Tython, Ossus (yes, they're canon too), Devaron, Exegol, Malachor, Ahch-To, Dagobah and a thousand others we've never heard of. They may be rare, but a galaxy has a *lot* of planets.

Have the crystals ever actually been mentioned in the movies?

Yes. They're tangential to the plot of 'Rogue One', are both seen and mentioned multiple times (Jyn wears one around her neck!) and are specifically referenced as being what powered Jedi lightsabers.

 

[BillJ]

Yes. They're tangential to the plot of 'Rogue One', are both seen and mentioned multiple times (Jyn wears one around her neck!) and are specifically referenced as being what powered Jedi lightsabers.

I must have been really bored with it. I've seen the film twice and don't remember any of that.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Johnson made a movie consistent with the mythological underpinnings of Star Wars. That people don't like doesn't make it less appropriate for Star Wars.

Totally disagree. The characters of SW are simple archetypes.. and a simple 30 year gap doesn't mean you have to make them "realistic" and turn positive characters that inspired people into old washouts.. or deconstruct the mythos. (I love SW.. but it's an illusion, and doesn't really hold up to close scrutiny, but its the amazing production, and verisimilitude along with characters that people like) that make it appealing..but it's a paper tiger.

Johnson just decided to take the franchise and throw it in the garbage.. the fragile vision that george had was broken . BTW RJ's version of SW was not deep or challenging

 

[BillJ]

The success of the OT was down to a genius combination of timeless mythology and light, fun space action adventure fare.

And timing, being the first really big epic space action-adventure.

 

[Campe]

I must have been really bored with it. I've seen the film twice and don't remember any of that.

A lot of creepy guys skulking around whispering "Kyber!" Easy to miss.

 

[BillJ]

The characters of SW are simple archetypes.. and a simple 30 year gap doesn't mean you have to make them "realistic"...

You leave them as archtypes, the audience would've deserted them just as quickly.We want to see them grow up, because we've grown up.

and turn positive characters that inspired people into old washouts..

Who was an old washout? I watched Luke Skywalker reach across the galaxy to give the finger to Kylo Ren. It was fucking badass. Though I hope you weren't expecting Luke and gang to be swinging across fucking chasms, these people are in their late-60's/early-70's.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

I'd argue that they went some way to fixing Finns role in TROS. Not only was he not portrayed as a buffoon in this movie but his back story was expanded on a little - it was still not enough for me personally to be satisfied with the character's arc, but I'd say he was portrayed way better here than in the previous two entries.

That's the problem: a last minute fix (which was not one) when Finn--as a so-called major character right next to or after Rey--was deliberately made into a fool with no identity/perspective/purpose of his own. He was the intended tokenized minstrel of Star Wars, right down to his job as a (largely frightened) sanitation worker. Offensive and unforgivable in the extreme. It would be the same if in the OT, no development or purpose was written for Leia until ROTJ, and Lucas, Kazanjian, et al, just added whatever in an attempt to give her something to say or do. That would have been disastrous for the OT if the other major protagonist after Luke was some hollow shell, utterly devoid of substance and a reason to be until some quickie attempt at a fix in the final movie.

The producers/writers/directors are beyond defense. They knew exactly what they were doing; they could not stop talking about what they were doing for just about all other forms of representation and empowerment in this sequel trilogy, but the handling of Finn was not a part of that. He had no unique perspective/identity that informed his journey/actions.His only function was to be the one to answer "Black Stereotype Character? Present" when called into this series, then stumble and pant his way into one shameful scene after another..

Its no wonder so many black fans resent the Finn character: they know "flavor" and offensive stereotypes when they see it, while others (not meaning you) will defend anything as long as their interests were addressed in this ST. Everyone else can shut up and be happy the "flavor" was there to give the production "points." So much a mirror of American politics, and that's no surprise.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Johnson just decided to take the franchise and throw it in the garbage.. the fragile vision that george had was broken . BTW RJ's version of SW was not deep or challenging

Agreed, and Johnson is on record essentially talking about subverting certain characters/expectations, and by the very nature of subversion, there's no consistency with what had come before.

 

[Tuskin38]

Luke died using the force in the most Jedi way possible, in the defence of others:

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there's no consistency with what had come before.

Wrong.

 

[Reverend]

I must have been really bored with it. I've seen the film twice and don't remember any of that.

No, you're just either being deliberately obtuse or have a VERY short attention span.
I mean there's one in the very first scene, and they're explicitly talked about in both Cassian's and Cherruit introductory scenes. This isn't blink and you'll miss it stuff. One may as claim they never noticed laser guns or droids in ANH.

 

[Campe]

Luke died using the force in the most Jedi way possible, in the defence of others:

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It amazes me that people don't see that.

 

[Lakenheath 72]

What about Kathleen Kennedy? She is the president of Lucasfilm - the buck stops at her. I blame her for many of the failings of the Disney Trilogy.

 

[BillJ]

No, you're just either being deliberately obtuse or have a VERY short attention span.
I mean there's one in the very first scene, and they're explicitly talked about in both Cassian's and Cherruit introductory scenes. This isn't blink and you'll miss it stuff. One may as claim they never noticed laser guns or droids in ANH.

I simply don't remember it. The movie didn't make much of an impression on me.