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The Last Jedi - Actually Widely Hated?

Actually I discussed this with a friend:
- If the light saber Rey gets in TFA had been Luke's green one, instead of Anakin's blue one, that actually smooths out a lot of conceits across both movies.

a. instead of it being the blue one, which was lost to the air ducts of bespin forever, never to be seen again, and you going "wtf?" it now becomes "luke is gone, and he doesn't have his green light saber. why doesn't luke have his light saber??"

b. his rejection of the lightsaber in TLJ then holds more weight because we learn later in the movie exactly why he threw it away in the first place (he almost killed ren ect ect)

so now you have a narrative throughline between both movies that actually makes sense, and doesn't just feel like it's being made up as it goes along

I still would not like the movie.. but hey it would be marginally improved
 
Watched The Last Jedi this afternoon. Honestly, I don't get the hate? I find it just a tick behind The Force Awakens in entertainment value. The weaknesses being the Canto Bight/Ships being chased part (that really needed to be reworked and not so heavy handed) and they really didn't seem to know what to do with Poe Dameron. I found the Luke/Rey/Kylo Ren stuff great.

And Luke Skywalker is still a bad-ass motherfucker.

Bring on The Rise of Skywalker!
 
Actually, after the movie came out, a friend of mine suggested how well the movie "flows" even down to transitions. For instance, after Finn wakes up and Poe finds him in the corridor suggesting he has a million questions, he asks, "Where's Rey?" and the scene shifts to Anch-To where Rey is. I rewatched TLJ last week and noticed those again. It's pretty cool.

And, yes, Luke Skywalker's move at the end is unbelievably badass. AND is exactly what a Jedi would do.
 
I still have a few issues with it and it ranks pretty far down on my personal list. But the creative intent behind it is the one thing that works absolutely. It made all the right thematic choices, and the franchise was in need of them.
 
Before I talk about the "flow" of the film I want to say something: people have called me racist.. and I feel that is unfair. I just wanta a good story. It's only when they started forcing diversity in these films did people start talking about it, and everyone wants to be included every checkbox has to be filled or damn we will hear about it if it wasn't from whoever was left out.
Yet
Yet
When Luke looked out at that binary sunset in 1977.. audiences worldwide.. audiences even many years later .. got it. They saw his angst, his need to leave, the notion that he could try find his destiny. His eyes told the story.. John Williams' strings told the story. It told the story to white men. It told the story to black men. It told the story to women.. yet Luke is not a woman or a black man. WHY WOULD A WOMAN OVER THE PAST 40 YEARS POSSIBLY LIKE THIS SCENE.. IT DOES NOT HAVE A WOMAN LOOKING AT HER DESTINY IT HAS A MAN ??. he is SW's equivalent of a human.. and he was written without just as a character. That's all want. The human condition.

BTW.. GUYS..
the leaks are true! I can prove it
 
Flying Spaghetti Monster said:
Before I talk about the "flow" of the film I want to say something: people have called me racist..
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Yes.

It's only when they started forcing diversity in these films
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That's why.

When Luke looked out at that binary sunset in 1977.. audiences worldwide.. audiences even many years later .. got it. They saw his angst, his need to leave, the notion that he could try find his destiny. His eyes told the story.. John Williams' strings told the story. It told the story to white men. It told the story to black men. It told the story to women.. yet Luke is not a woman or a black man. WHY WOULD A WOMAN OVER THE PAST 40 YEARS POSSIBLY LIKE THIS SCENE.. IT DOES NOT HAVE A WOMAN LOOKING AT HER DESTINY IT HAS A MAN ??. he is SW's equivalent of a human.. and he was written without just as a character. That's all want. The human condition.
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I am not a woman or a black man, but I get exactly the human condition from Rey and Finn. The fact that you can't see the human condition in them because they aren't white men is entirely the problem.
 
Grendelsbayne said:
Yes.



That's why.



I am not a woman or a black man, but I get exactly the human condition from Rey and Finn. The fact that you can't see the human condition in them because they aren't white men is entirely the problem.
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bECAUSE THEY ARE SHALLOW CHARACTERS MEANT MORE TO CHECK OFF THE BOXES THAN TO be CHARACTERS. tHAT SAID, THEY STARTED OFF FINE. bUT IT'S NOT LIKE THEY WERE ENEDED. i'M FIND TO HAVE DIVERSITY.. BUT WHAT sw WAS ABOUT WAS MORE ABOUT MYTHOLOGY, WAR, IDEALISM, HEROISM, AND ALL OF THAT. iT WAS NOT ABOUT TRYING INEXORIBINATELY HARD TO PLEASE EVERYONE.

but you miss my argument.. you really do.

The people of different races still related to these characters.. why? because of the story. Not because a corporate conglomerate wanted to please everyone so they could do well the next quarter
 
Flying Spaghetti Monster said:
bECAUSE THEY ARE SHALLOW CHARACTERS MEANT MORE TO CHECK OFF THE BOXES THAN TO be CHARACTERS. tHAT SAID, THEY STARTED OFF FINE. bUT IT'S NOT LIKE THEY WERE ENEDED. i'M FIND TO HAVE DIVERSITY.. BUT WHAT sw WAS ABOUT WAS MORE ABOUT MYTHOLOGY, WAR, IDEALISM, HEROISM, AND ALL OF THAT. iT WAS NOT ABOUT TRYING INEXORIBINATELY HARD TO PLEASE EVERYONE.

but you miss my argument.. you really do.

The people of different races still related to these characters.. why? because of the story. Not because a corporate conglomerate wanted to please everyone so they could do well the next quarter
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You miss your own argument. People of all different races relate to these new characters because YOUR opinion about their quality is NOT fact and is NOT shared by everyone else. I think they're great characters, IMO, better characters than the originals (certainly Rey is a better character for me than Luke). I don't see the slightest hint of these characters being shallow attempts to please everyone exhorbitantly. I do not see any aspect of the story being in any way a betrayal of previous themes about mythology or war - those aspects are ALL still an undeniable, fundamental part of the story, yet you refuse to even acknowledge they exist because you have a ridiculous grudge against fictional characters for the horrible crime of existing and not being exactly like Luke Skywalker or Han Solo.
 
I could argue about the characters themselves being weak imitations of the originals.

But what makes a great SW character great is not the color of their skin.. or their gender

you have a ridiculous grudge against fictional characters for the horrible crime of existing and not being exactly like Luke Skywalker or Han Solo.
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No they are just terrible characters, with really no story to them.. but damn they are divers so if I don't like the characters people can say I'm racist. It's Disney's method of doing the whole CYA thing
 
Flying Spaghetti Monster said:
But what makes a great SW character great is not the color of their skin.. or their gender
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We all agree on that. Rey is a great character for reasons that have nothing to do with her being a woman.

No they are just terrible characters, with really no story to them..
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No.

but damn they are divers so if I don't like the characters people can say I'm racist.
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I've seen lots of people who manage to communicate that they don't like these characters without coming across as racist. The key is to *stop making your arguments about race so often*. If you truly believe Finn is a terrible character, full stop, then explain what about him *as a character* is terrible. The character is not the same thing as the creator's motivation. The creator's motivation is literally not relevant. A hack looking for easy money can wind up making a good character anyway (Hello Gene Roddenberry's Star Trek). An incredible creator with great passion can still totally fail.

Every time you bring up "Forced Diversity" or the dreaded "Kennedy Agenda" you are shifting the argument away from the characters (or the story) and instead unloading on these movies for the mere act of casting women or minorities. Their casting, *no matter what it was motivated by*, does not tell us a single thing about the *quality* of the films, yet you continually use that as 'proof' that the movies are bad. Yes, that makes you sound racist and sexist. It just does.

It's Disney's method of doing the whole CYA thing
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Utter conspiracy theory bs. Disney is selling movies that it thinks people will like. Nothing more. Nothing less.
 
Oh no.. if they didn't do the CYA thing in today's climate we would get threads like that one thread about Marvel "Marvel needs a diverse lead characher" when my argument is was an has always been that a good story is a good story, and it doesn't matter what the race and gender is. Placing a woman at the lead doesn't make it a good story. Good writing does.
 
Flying Spaghetti Monster said:
Oh no.. if they didn't do the CYA thing in today's climate we would get threads like that one thread about Marvel "Marvel needs a diverse lead characher" when my argument is was an has always been that a good story is a good story, and it doesn't matter what the race and gender is. Placing a woman at the lead doesn't make it a good story. Good writing does.
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Disney doesn't create threads on this board. They make movies they think people will like. Period.

And Rey is a fun, engaging, entertaining character to millions of people, no matter how much you hate her.
 
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