Episode IX Speculation and Discussion

[Campe]

To be fair, we haven't really seen Palps yet either. Makes me wonder if he's really coming back in the flesh. There's something about these two hoods which has me thinking...

I've really been wondering if Palpatine really is back or not.

Regardless, I think that the afterlife or more specifically what it means in the GFFA to cheat death is going to play a big part in TRoS.

 

[Awesome Possum]

It is possible that he had figured out how to cheat death like Darth Plagueus and he wasn’t just bullshitting Anakin. Now he’s been in the background manipulating the galaxy like he’s done for decades. We know the Empire was following his orders after his death and it involved going to the Unknown Regions and destroying some planets including his homeworld of Naboo and Jakku. Snoke could have been one of his followers or even a sort of puppet he was controlling to manipulate Kylo Ren, who as a descendent of Anakin would be very strong in the Force and quite valuable to him. Him talking to the Vader mask could be how the Emperor is doing it. Because Anakin turned back before he died and I can’t see him actually being who Kylo thinks he’s sensing. Using him to kill Luke’s Jedi academy and his family is just the icing on his revenge cake. This is personal to him, Luke rejected him and got Vader to turn on him so he must pay over and over again.

 

[Campe]

Cheating death = ball pit in place of Death Star II reactor core.

True story.

 

[fireproof78]

It is possible that he had figured out how to cheat death like Darth Plagueus and he wasn’t just bullshitting Anakin. Now he’s been in the background manipulating the galaxy like he’s done for decades. We know the Empire was following his orders after his death and it involved going to the Unknown Regions and destroying some planets including his homeworld of Naboo and Jakku. Snoke could have been one of his followers or even a sort of puppet he was controlling to manipulate Kylo Ren, who as a descendent of Anakin would be very strong in the Force and quite valuable to him. Him talking to the Vader mask could be how the Emperor is doing it. Because Anakin turned back before he died and I can’t see him actually being who Kylo thinks he’s sensing. Using him to kill Luke’s Jedi academy and his family is just the icing on his revenge cake. This is personal to him, Luke rejected him and got Vader to turn on him so he must pay over and over again.

How very mythic

 

[JD]

It is possible that he had figured out how to cheat death like Darth Plagueus and he wasn’t just bullshitting Anakin. Now he’s been in the background manipulating the galaxy like he’s done for decades. We know the Empire was following his orders after his death and it involved going to the Unknown Regions and destroying some planets including his homeworld of Naboo and Jakku. Snoke could have been one of his followers or even a sort of puppet he was controlling to manipulate Kylo Ren, who as a descendent of Anakin would be very strong in the Force and quite valuable to him. Him talking to the Vader mask could be how the Emperor is doing it. Because Anakin turned back before he died and I can’t see him actually being who Kylo thinks he’s sensing. Using him to kill Luke’s Jedi academy and his family is just the icing on his revenge cake. This is personal to him, Luke rejected him and got Vader to turn on him so he must pay over and over again.

Sounds pretty good to me.

 

[Campe]

What if Palpatine is Plagueis!

Sorry, had to bring out the someone is Plagueis one last time on the sequel trilogy.

Seriously, Possum's idea is a pretty great one. It would be great to see onscreen.

 

[JD]

Palpatine was his own master? How would that work?

 

[Campe]

Palpatine was his own master? How would that work?

Palps didn’t specifically say he killed Plagueis. Just his master.

(Obviously this didn’t happen because the whole idea is making fun of everyone who were so convinced Snoke was Plagueis.)

 

[JD]

Oh, I knew he was joking. I was just curious if anyone had an explanation, which you did and it was a good one.

 

[HugeLobes]

JJ is very good at giving fans what they want while also appealing to the general viewer. Given Palpatine's popularity - especially (IMO) among those fans usually most liable to hate on TLJ - it seems very likely he'll be back in some form.

Kinda conflicted. I don't really like it as a follow-up to the OT, but it's probably a good idea for these movies.

 

[Awesome Possum]

It does wrap up everything if you take the main villain from the first two trilogies and reveal he was the secret villain of the third.

 

[HugeLobes]

It does wrap up everything if you take the main villain from the first two trilogies and reveal he was the secret villain of the third.

Yeah, but ... two trilogies. And now the secret villain of the third? Palpatine didn't really have much of a character in the OT. He was just part of Luke's journey, and he worked well in that capacity. I didn't really like him in the prequels, but at least he had a set role within that story. Always felt the seduction of Anakin was poorly written, but at least it was a major part of the story.

I suppose whatever happens I'll feel he was brought back not so much because it made sense or helped the story but rather due to his popularity. Just feels a touch gratuitous, but then I'm not sure where else the series can go at this point other than bring back what was popular before.

Then you get into a wider discussion of where the franchise is going and who it's making movies for.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

that's all fine and good, but they should have used all three films to tell that story.. not rush it all into the last film

 

[Awesome Possum]

I suppose whatever happens I'll feel he was brought back not so much because it made sense or helped the story but rather due to his popularity. Just feels a touch gratuitous, but then I'm not sure where else the series can go at this point other than bring back what was popular before.

Then you get into a wider discussion of where the franchise is going and who it's making movies for.

That’s just a problem with Star Wars that’s been there since Return of the Jedi and was rampant in the old EU and the prequels. It’s been cannibalizing itself to the point where it became a meme. “It’s like poetry, it rhymes.” And we really have no one to blame but ourselves because we don’t like it when it’s different, so TPTB don’t try to expand it. Just look at this and every other thread in this forum and others about what happens when Star Wars is different.

 

[fireproof78]

Then you get into a wider discussion of where the franchise is going and who it's making movies for.

They keep getting back towards the comfort food style audiences.

As for Palpatine, why not? He came back in the Legends EU and people seemed OK with it there. I love the idea of him as a mastermind, being defeated for a time and then returning. It's so very mythological, and Lord of the Rings-esque. Why not?

And we really have no one to blame but ourselves because we don’t like it when it’s different,

Exactly. Different gets treated as heresy, and I don't buy in to the excuse "Well if it was done well..." Nope. Load of garbage. Fandom has been complaining about changes since ESB, so what do the powers that be do? Go back to the familiar.

You didn't like ESB because it was darker? Whelp, we've a Death Star II.

You didn't like Jar-Jar? Congratulations, he is barely in the third one.

You like Ahsoka and Maul? Well, guess what? They are back in every animated show until Resistance.

It's fan pleasing all the way. And that's no way forward.

 

[HugeLobes]

That’s just a problem with Star Wars that’s been there since Return of the Jedi and was rampant in the old EU and the prequels. It’s been cannibalizing itself to the point where it became a meme. “It’s like poetry, it rhymes.” And we really have no one to blame but ourselves because we don’t like it when it’s different, so TPTB don’t try to expand it. Just look at this and every other thread in this forum and others about what happens when Star Wars is different.

I agree! This is why I think the franchise has suffered creative issues from the end of ROTJ onwards. It has to be different because they've already told the central story. I'm just wondering how they're going to get away from it - after all the controversy surrounding TLJ, it seems they won't be able to try something original for quite a while.

As for Palpatine, why not? He came back in the Legends EU and people seemed OK with it there.

That's exactly what I mean. He came back for the Legends EU, but then there's always been a thin line between EU and fan fiction. That content was very firmly for the fanbase, and really only the fans who cared enough to read it. Even as a kid reading about this EU stuff it seemed a little contrived and convenient to bring him back.

 

[fireproof78]

I agree! This is why I think the franchise has suffered creative issues from the end of ROTJ onwards. It has to be different because they've already told the central story. I'm just wondering how they're going to get away from it - after all the controversy surrounding TLJ, it seems they won't be able to try something original for quite a while.

You hand it to a writer and director who doesn't give a crap.

Also, you have a missing bracket for the last quote in your post

 

[HugeLobes]

Also, you have a missing bracket for the last quote in your post

Fixed

 

[fireproof78]

That's exactly what I mean. He came back for the Legends EU, but then there's always been a thin line between EU and fan fiction. That content was very firmly for the fanbase, and really only the fans who cared enough to read it. Even as a kid reading about this EU stuff it seemed a little contrived and convenient to bring him back.

So is having a second Death Star. Contrived and convenient dominates this property.

Honestly, I recall Sam Witwer discussing this. He stated that for as much flak as TPM received it was truly a film that did something different within the Star Wars universe. It offered up more than just the dog fights, and blaster fire. It offered a world that struggled with politics and clashes of culture and the like. Sam opined that it was the release of TPM that allowed for some expansion.

I think we need another TPM style movie. I personally think that an Old Republic type series, perhaps right at the end of the Sith Wars, would be an ideal place to start.

 

[HugeLobes]

So is having a second Death Star. Contrived and convenient dominates this property.

True, but then I think the second Death Star was less of a problem than people tend to make out these days. I've always felt the Han and Leia stuff is really where ROTJ showed that things were winding down, but the Death Star is a more obvious example.

Honestly, I recall Sam Witwer discussing this. He stated that for as much flak as TPM received it was truly a film that did something different within the Star Wars universe. It offered up more than just the dog fights, and blaster fire. It offered a world that struggled with politics and clashes of culture and the like. Sam opined that it was the release of TPM that allowed for some expansion.

Again, I agree! I think TPM did exactly what the franchise needed at that point. Unfortunately, I think it did it badly. That's also how I feel about TLJ. After TPM failed Lucas seemed to fall back more on dog fights, blaster fire, and lightsaber duels. Those movies were more fun to watch the TPM, but they weren't really as good, just as (again, IMO) TLJ is better than TFA and yet also not as fun to watch.