Anyone Feel a Little Sorry for Anthony Daniels?

[CorporalCaptain]

Feel like I already addressed these concerns. Certainly it isn't proven, but I don't think it's 'far-fetched' given his comments. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that.

If he resents his billing in the original film, then why is the target of his ire only Baker and not also one or more of the others on the same card? That's what makes the idea of resentment about equal billing with Baker in the OT era far-fetched. Why not also complain about, say, Jack Purvis, whose roll was even more minor? And anyway, the only remarks of Daniels so far cited that remotely pertain to the subject of film credit have to do with a film made two decades after this one.

 

[HugeLobes]

If he resents his billing in the original film, then why is the target of his ire only Baker and not also one or more of the others on the same card? That's what makes the idea of resent about equal billing with Baker in the OT era far-fetched. Why not also, complain about, say, Jack Purvis, whose roll was even more minor?

I'd imagine because of the natural R2/Threepio pairing, plus the fact that Baker was apparently keen to do shows together to take advantage of the double act.

And anyway, the only remarks of Daniels so far cited that remotely pertain to the subject of film credit have to do with a film made two decades after this one.

Yes, but his relationship with Baker seems to have be strained far longer. Baker himself has said he felt Daniels considered him 'a nobody' during the OT.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I'd imagine because of the natural R2/Threepio pairing, plus the fact that Baker was apparently keen to do shows together to take advantage of the double act.



Yes, but his relationship with Baker seems to have be strained far longer. Baker himself has said he felt Daniels considered him 'a nobody' during the OT.

So, a bunch of stuff that has nothing to do with the question of equal billing or any resentment Daniels might hypothetically have had about it, billing that didn't even exist for two of the three OT films.

To be clear, I've made no comment about whatever feud that they, Daniels and Baker, might or might not have had going. The idea that there was a feud of some kind seems fairly well supported.

 

[HugeLobes]

So, a bunch of stuff that has nothing to do with the question of equal billing or any resentment Daniels might hypothetically have had about it, billing that didn't even exist for two of the three OT films.

I was just answering your questions!

 

[Takeru]

I remember reading somewhere that the special effects guys had a super hard time replicating the distinctive way Daniels moved as C3PO. Another credit to his acting.

Is that actually acting ability or would effects guys have problems replicating anyone's movements because we all do it in distinctive ways?

Anyway, I don't feel sorry for Daniels at all, he's famous because of Star Wars and milked the part for all its worth so if he had to sit next to Kenny Baker for interviews or whatever, that's a really small price to pay even if it hurts his fragile ego.
If it annoys him so much he could just step away and end his involvement with the franchise but he doesn't so why should I care?

 

[Smellmet]

I'm sure he's done very well for himself out of C3PO and Star Wars. Nothing bad has happened to him has it. Nothing to feel sorry for then.

 

[Saul]

The image of Threepio flipping off Frank Skinner has made my day.

It made Skinner's day too.

I thought this was a POTUS tweet for a second.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

"Sir, I am fluent in over six million forms of covfefe."

 

[Turtletrekker]

The one time I met Anthony Daniels at a convention he came off like a total douche.

 

[HugeLobes]

Is that actually acting ability or would effects guys have problems replicating anyone's movements because we all do it in distinctive ways?

I think at least partially acting ability. At the very least it's a nice example of an actor doing something well that people wouldn't normally think about. Remember reading the same about the way Brent Spiner moved as Data. He made those semi-robotic movements so naturally that others were surprised to discover how difficult it was.

I'm sure he's done very well for himself out of C3PO and Star Wars. Nothing bad has happened to him has it. Nothing to feel sorry for then.

Again, I don't really understand this line of thinking. Kenny Baker did well out of Star Wars, but I can still feel sorry for him based on the way he was treated by Daniels.

I guess it comes down to:

The one time I met Anthony Daniels at a convention he came off like a total douche.

Hard to have any sympathy for someone like that.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

On the subject of Baker's contribution, it's a foregone conclusion that without someone inside operating R2, there would have been no R2 in the original film and consequently no original film. They needed someone inside R2, and that someone was Kenny Baker. So, without a doubt Baker deserved prominent credit for the original film, which he got.

Baker's contribution was both less essential and less substantial in the later OT films, and end credit billing reflected that.

By the time TPM was made, having a person inside R2 to operate the droid was completely unnecessary, at least from a technical standpoint. I don't know how often Baker was used, but IIRC I recall seeing the leg hoses when R2 is getting commended by the Queen's double aboard the starship and during the pod race when R2 is standing on the sideline. If anything, I'd call those Kenny Baker cameos.

 

[HugeLobes]

On the subject of Baker's contribution, it's a foregone conclusion that without someone inside operating R2, there would have been no R2 in the original film and consequently no original film. They needed someone inside R2, and that someone was Kenny Baker. So, without a doubt Baker deserved prominent credit for the original film, which he got.

But would R2's on screen portrayal have been any different if someone else had been inside? I've looked around a little and it doesn't seem Baker had any impact on the character in that sense.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

But would R2's on screen portrayal have been any different if someone else had been inside? I've looked around a little and it doesn't seem Baker had any impact on the character in that sense.

Fact was, he was the dude in there. He did the work. Ergo, he deserved the credit.

 

[HugeLobes]

Fact was, he was the dude in there. He did the work. Ergo, he deserved the credit.

Yeah, I get that he was the one in there. Don't remember contesting it.

What I was asking was whether the portrayal would have been different if someone else had been in there. David Prowse didn't speak as Vader or contribute much to the character, but at the very least you could say that Vader wouldn't have come across exactly the same with another actor. Same with Mayhew and Chewbacca.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Yeah, I get that he was the one in there. Don't remember contesting it.

What I was asking was whether the portrayal would have been different if someone else had been in there. David Prowse didn't speak as Vader or contribute much to the character, but at the very least you could say that Vader wouldn't have come across exactly the same with another actor. Same with Mayhew and Chewbacca.

well anyone else could play any character, and they would credit that person.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Yeah, I get that he was the one in there. Don't remember contesting it.

What I was asking was whether the portrayal would have been different if someone else had been in there. David Prowse didn't speak as Vader or contribute much to the character, but at the very least you could say that Vader wouldn't have come across exactly the same with another actor. Same with Mayhew and Chewbacca.

I think Baker's rhythms show through. Of course, we're talking about a very low bandwidth channel of information, relative to the amount of information that an actor puts out under normal conditions.

I don't think it really matters anyway to the amount of credit that Baker deserved. If the character of R2 (yes, he's a character) is of the sort that performers who can play him perfectly are interchangeable, then Baker was such a perfect performer, and Baker's performance constituted the prototype.

I've looked around a little and it doesn't seem Baker had any impact on the character in that sense.

 

[Smellmet]

Again, I don't really understand this line of thinking. Kenny Baker did well out of Star Wars, but I can still feel sorry for him based on the way he was treated by Daniels.

I guess it comes down to:



Hard to have any sympathy for someone like that.

I wasn't talking about Baker I was referring to daniels, as that's the thread title. I've never met the guy but all I read on here is how much of a bellend he is.

 

[HugeLobes]

well anyone else could play any character, and they would credit that person.

Yes, but it would make a difference. If another actor had played Han Solo we’d have the same character but a different portrayal. Perhaps a very different one.

I wasn't talking about Baker I was referring to daniels, as that's the thread title. I've never met the guy but all I read on here is how much of a bellend he is.

I know. I just mentioned Baker to point out that you can feel sorry for someone over something relatively small even if they profited in the long run.

I think Baker's rhythms show through. Of course, we're talking about a very low bandwidth channel of information, relative to the amount of information that an actor puts out under normal conditions.

I don't think it really matters anyway to the amount of credit that Baker deserved. If the character of R2 (yes, he's a character) is of the sort that performers who can play him perfectly are interchangeable, then Baker was such a perfect performer, and Baker's performance constituted the prototype.

Seems like a huge stretch to say his movements come through. Put someone else in there to jostle the R2 unit around and I really doubt anyone could notice the difference. I think that matters as to the credit he receives because I don’t see how there’s any skill involved. This just doesn’t seem to be something we’ll agree on.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Seems like a huge stretch to say his movements come through. Put someone else in there to jostle the R2 unit around and I really doubt anyone could notice the difference. I think that matters as to the credit he receives because I don’t see how there’s any skill involved. This just doesn’t seem to be something we’ll agree on.

It's pretty obvious when there's a motor in it turning the head vs when there's a person in it doing the same. That's enough evidence that "Baker is showing through." Whether anyone else would have been indistinguishable is frankly one of those how many angels can dance on the head of a pin type questions. We'll just never know. The movie was made under conditions that weren't ideal and can't be reproduced.

And arguing that someone upon which the production of the film crucially depended shouldn't have receive credit proportional to the character's significance is pretty pathetic. Anyway, he got the credit that was negotiated. It seems that the people responsible for the film, if not Lucas himself, thought it was fair, and I happen to agree.

 

[HugeLobes]

someone upon which the production of the film crucially depended.

Oh god, here's the inevitable move from 'huge stretch' to 'fantasy land'.