Spoilers Supergirl - Season 5

[Marc]

- A question: why did producers made Andrea Brooks a regular if they use so few (only 1 or 2 scenes and always with Katie McGrath at her side?) Even Azie Tesfai, who was promoted in the same time than Brooks has more scenes and has her character doing things in solo!

Probably something do with the rules for casting. IIRC if an actor appears in more than a certain number of episodes they get counted as main cast even if they only have few lines/small appearances in those episodes.

Plus it helps making sure the performer is available when they're needed. If Andrea Brooks was simply down a guest star they'd have to negotiate with her agent etc when she's available for which episodes.

 

[Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME]

Probably something do with the rules for casting. IIRC if an actor appears in more than a certain number of episodes they get counted as main cast even if they only have few lines/small appearances in those episodes.

Plus it helps making sure the performer is available when they're needed. If Andrea Brooks was simply down a guest star they'd have to negotiate with her agent etc when she's available for which episodes.

Ah alright. Thank you for the explanation. That being said, learning that their newly promoted actress got pregnant had to be pretty unexpected. Right the beginning of s5, Brooks pregnancy was visible through her outfits and in this episode, her curves were difficult to hide and it will not work out. Not to mention her absence after childbirth. There unfortunately, she will be totally unavailable for awhile (the importance of her character does not justify a quick return to the set for the actress).

 

[Christopher]

Probably something do with the rules for casting. IIRC if an actor appears in more than a certain number of episodes they get counted as main cast even if they only have few lines/small appearances in those episodes.

Credits aren't about number of episodes or quantity of screen time, they're about actors' contracts and how much they get paid. Actors credited in the main titles as regulars are paid a regular's rates and get residuals from reruns and home video sales. (Everyone "above the line" -- credited in the opening -- gets residuals, while people billed only at the end do not.)

Plus it helps making sure the performer is available when they're needed. If Andrea Brooks was simply down a guest star they'd have to negotiate with her agent etc when she's available for which episodes.

Yes, that's the main reason for signing someone as a regular even with limited screen time.

 

[The Realist]

Watched "Dangerous Liaisons" yesterday and let me tell you that the Obsedian technology is damn creepy (who is crazy enough for wearing VR contact lenses outside in stand there for a bit, smiling as zombie-consciousness, to the point of not even seeing the danger approaching and waiting before reacting?! Ah yes,
those who consult their mobile phone at any time and any place!

Anyway, what a strange episode there, which begins with a banal police investigation and ends with a planetary environmental threat and in the middle of all this, the appearance of Doctor Octopus! Between the Rojas family and the Leviathan, we start to get lost (who is working on behalf of who and why? There are still 3 or 4 epsidoes to get some answers before approaching the next crossover).
=> I wonder if the lack of index about the ineluctable events which will take place in Crisis and the resulting changes resulting won't make the situation more painful for our heros, precisely because they were not prepared to face them, contrary to Oliver, Barry, their friends and relatives who already know for a little while that something serious is going to happen, which will put their lives upside down and who are getting ready.
Lately and for the fist time, I read about the possibility of major death(s) in Crisis like the one of Lena or Alex, which let Kara/Supergirl (as seeing as it is almost certain that she will come out alive just like Barry) in an emotional state and will make her change her approach in relation to the people & aliens she will meet later.
In short, the death of her friend or sister would harden Kara, she who was affable and offering her love/ friendship to anyone so easily. I fear that the second part of the season be more dark than what we have already seen from s3.

Otherwise,

- Kara & William who turn into amateur investigators to bring to light the dishonest actions of the Rojas family and end up discovering that Russel, William's best friend whose he mourned the death, was finally alive but transformed in Rip Roar. And all while continuing their little seductive dance where they would be the only two protagonists. BLAH! ,
-> he is definitely being set up as the new love interest but when a relationship is based on thin threads that barely hold it together and is destined to end in a few months!

- J'onn, playing the role of confidant and adviser when a little lost Kara comes to see him.
It was nice to see this tender side of J'onn even if ironically, that is the same J'onn who is completly overwhelmed by emotions when he faces the brother he had rejected and almost forgotten.

- Andrea Rojas: would she be less suspicious than we thought in the events which took place in this episode. In fact, she really gives the impression of being overwhelmed by the magnitude of the events (the questions about the unexplained disappearance of her boyfriend; some kind of global change created by the Leviathan and his representant in the person of the old lady),

- Lena and Malefic, the most interesting part IMHO :
=> I waited impatiently for a sign proving that Lena had not completly flopped into dark side of the Force and what I saw in this episode gave me hope again. I think they nailed down her moral alignment quite nicely. (-> yes, she wants to be able to control people's minds, aliens and humans, but not at any price; meaning not at the cost of human/alien lives like her brother and mother, Lex & Lilian, would have certainly done but in the same time, she proves to be worthy of a Luthor), in particular her friends. Besides, right the beginning of the season, Lena had said that she didn't want to kill Supergirl (and by extension, none of her friends so, she practices what she said). Even if Lena's doing ambiguously immoral things, she is not evil. She believes that she is improving humanity, solving a problem, so I'm glad we saw that side of her again.
=> So now Lena can controll a martian...well the martian mind controll power is in the dumpster. What will she do with this power? (Lena finessed the fuck out of Malefic! ->Lena: " I have altered the deal. Pray I do not alter it further".)
=> Maybe I'm wrong but through "Your friends are your rock." said by Malefic, this is the key which will push Lena to forgive Kara for her betrayal (that and Lena using Malefic's power against him which is going to come back to haunt her later in the season, which likely will lead definitively to reconciliation with Kara). As for Kara, it will be surely the guilt after to have seen the extent of her BF's break for having lied to her the entire time. Their friendship is unalterable, no matter the ups and downs crossed.
=> may I say that I still don't like Lena's arc this season and I think that this isn't going to end well at all for her but, in the same time, that was pretty badass!

- So Kara is keeping Nia in the dark about William being a good guy and not a jerk as they thought. That is probably best but well, more transparency will be appreciated because it was precisely the lack of it which put her relationship with Lena in limbo.

- Brainy: Hats off to Jesse Rath (and Phil LaMarr, by the way) for his performance for the scene in the interrogation room. Brainy as the spider creature was awesome.

And to end,

- Alex and Kelly: As much as I lke Alex and only begin to like Kelly SEPARETELY, they don’t need relationship spotlight 5 episodes in a row, especially when it's so badly/poorly managed..., unless they’re building for a breakup with them. Anyway, more I sew them together more I confirm that there is zero chemistry between both characters and actresses.

- A question: why did producers made Andrea Brooks a regular if they use so few (only 1 or 2 scenes and always with Katie McGrath at her side?) Even Azie Tesfai, who was promoted in the same time than Brooks has more scenes and has her character doing things in solo!

Points of crispation:
- Since when "dateaversary" became a word I remember than Glee loved to make mashups and it is common to associate names of characters when they form a couple but there?! Hey, I guess that for their next "dativersary", Alex and Kelly will get their names tattooed on each other! ). And the fact that they repeat it again again became quickly tiring like the sudden fixation from Alex's part on whether she'll have to tell her girlfriend her boss is a criminal was irritating!
- Nia's powers make no sense (alone, she can stop a huge tsunami without moving while Brainy just told us a few minutes before that several regions throught the world were in danger?!
- The dialogue between Kara and J'onn at the geyser was terrible.

Another nicely observed analysis, particularly of Lena's character, actions, and motivations. Given the thundering Old Testament condemnation of her by certain gods hereabouts , your subtler evaluations are especially appreciated.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Another nicely observed analysis, particularly of Lena's character, actions, and motivations. Given the thundering Old Testament condemnation of her by certain gods hereabouts , your subtler evaluations are especially appreciated.

Only if one completely ignores the text of the show.

The three main plots of the season all revolve around 'mind control' and thought appropriation - or stealing a person's autonomy, with one equating it to murder. In other words, the text of the show literally states that what Lena did to Eve was murder and draws an obvious parallel between what J'onn did and what Lena is doing now.

So ignoring a significant portion of the material so that it adheres to your preexisting belief isn't 'nicely observed analysis' at all. It's confirmation bias.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Lena and Malefic, the most interesting part IMHO :
=> I waited impatiently for a sign proving that Lena had not completly flopped into dark side of the Force and what I saw in this episode gave me hope again. I think they nailed down her moral alignment quite nicely. (-> yes, she wants to be able to control people's minds, aliens and humans, but not at any price; meaning not at the cost of human/alien lives like her brother and mother, Lex & Lilian, would have certainly done but in the same time, she proves to be worthy of a Luthor)

Oh, nevermind how she was willing and actually killed Adam as part of her experiments last season. Yeah, she's a good one, all right.

in particular her friends. Besides, right the beginning of the season, Lena had said that she didn't want to kill Supergirl (and by extension, none of her friends so, she practices what she said). Even if Lena's doing ambiguously immoral things, she is not evil

Eugenics is what she believes in and practices with her experiments. This is a character trait for her for (at least) two seasons running. Eugenics is one of the most evil philosophies / programs in human history, one that has cost the lives of millions, so try as you might, Lena--from wanting to create super soldiers last season, to merging Eve with the Hope A.I., (which has all but taken over Eve's true self until plot convenience dictates that its not) to experimenting on "improving" the minds of what she sees as inherent "flaws" in humankind's thinking, is not doing anything for the benefit of humans, but seeks to alter and control them.

This plot has numerous precedents in real world history, and every ounce of it was and remains the beliefs and acts of evil.

Further, you're reading wish fulfillment into Lea's character; her stopping J'onn's brother is not making her a heroine. She does not want him interrupting her plans, and J'onn's death would set all of her targets on alert (since they believed he had been sent away).

Nia's powers make no sense (alone, she can stop a huge tsunami without moving while Brainy just told us a few minutes before that several regions throught the world were in danger?!

Just go with it. Nia's powers are never going to be defined enough to justify what you just watched.

Only if one completely ignores the text of the show.
The three main plots of the season all revolve around 'mind control' and thought appropriation - or stealing a person's autonomy, with one equating it to murder. In other words, the text of the show literally states that what Lena did to Eve was murder and draws an obvious parallel between what J'onn did and what Lena is doing now.

All rational conclusions, but do not be shocked if Eve makes a running plot-contradicting, last second return to stop whatever Lena is about to unleash and/or prove she's a heroine after all.

So ignoring a significant portion of the material so that it adheres to your preexisting belief isn't 'nicely observed analysis' at all. It's confirmation bias.

Yep.

 

[Christopher]

In other words, the text of the show literally states that what Lena did to Eve was murder and draws an obvious parallel between what J'onn did and what Lena is doing now.

I wouldn't go that far. If one character says something, that's just that one character's point of view, not necessarily the stance of the storytellers. After all, you've got no story if different characters don't perceive things differently. So J'onn's belief that what he did is tantamount to murder is meant to tell us about his feelings about his own actions. It doesn't automatically apply to Lena's actions.

And Lena has been pretty adamant that she's not willing to kill. My impression is that Eve is still in there somewhere, just suppressed, and Lena intends to release her once she and Hope succeed at finding a way to remove people's violent urges. It's certainly a violation, but I don't think it's meant to be as irreversible as murder, or Lena wouldn't be willing to do it.

 

[The Realist]

Only if one completely ignores the text of the show.

The three main plots of the season all revolve around 'mind control' and thought appropriation - or stealing a person's autonomy, with one equating it to murder. In other words, the text of the show literally states that what Lena did to Eve was murder and draws an obvious parallel between what J'onn did and what Lena is doing now.

So ignoring a significant portion of the material so that it adheres to your preexisting belief isn't 'nicely observed analysis' at all. It's confirmation bias.

Nah.

I wouldn't go that far. If one character says something, that's just that one character's point of view, not necessarily the stance of the storytellers. After all, you've got no story if different characters don't perceive things differently. So J'onn's belief that what he did is tantamount to murder is meant to tell us about his feelings about his own actions. It doesn't automatically apply to Lena's actions.

And Lena has been pretty adamant that she's not willing to kill. My impression is that Eve is still in there somewhere, just suppressed, and Lena intends to release her once she and Hope succeed at finding a way to remove people's violent urges. It's certainly a violation, but I don't think it's meant to be as irreversible as murder, or Lena wouldn't be willing to do it.

Yah.

 

[Enterprise is Great]

- A question: why did producers made Andrea Brooks a regular if they use so few (only 1 or 2 scenes and always with Katie McGrath at her side?) Even Azie Tesfai, who was promoted in the same time than Brooks has more scenes and has her character doing things in solo!
.

Andrea Brooks is pregnant. Her baby is due in three weeks.

 

[CorporalClegg]

I wouldn't go that far. If one character says something, that's just that one character's point of view, not necessarily the stance of the storytellers. .

It's how basic theme-building works.

I thought you were a writer?

To put it another way, if one character says 'Running red lights is wrong,' then the audience is simply meant to infer that character believes in rigid adherence to rules. If, however, we see another character run a red light during a story about [the necessity of] traffic laws, then the audience is meant to infer that the second character is in the wrong.

 

[Christopher]

It's how basic theme-building works.

I thought you were a writer?

Yes, which is why I know it's not as simplistic and mechanistic as you're assuming. "Basic" is for novices. It's the beginning of what you need to learn, not the end-all.

Characters are not merely mouthpieces for stating themes. Theme is just one of the fundamentals of drama, along with plot, character, and setting. And if anything, modern serialized TV tends to prioritize plot and character arcs over theme.

And it's the arc that matters here. What characters believe at the start of their journeys is often meant to be flawed or erroneous or incomplete, subject to evolution over the course of the story arc. After all, if they don't grow and change, if they start out with the final answer already, then there's no arc. So a character who starts a story believing he's done something irredeemably wrong (like J'onn) will generally end up learning that he can be forgiven after all. Conversely, if the storyteller's intent is that the character's actions were truly wrong, then the character will usually start out denying that (like Lena) and only come to accept it at the end of the arc. So you can't assume that what a character believes at the start of the season is meant to be their ultimate truth.

 

[Guy Gardener]

John did the right thing.

A biological superweapon used by the white Martians, just happed to he John's insane brother, who needed to be put down to avoid a genocide.

Although didn't John have wipe the brother he just killed from existance to stop that sibling corbinite bullshit from killing John?

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Yah.

Nope, and as CorporalClegg pointed out, ignoring the plain as day writing of Lena (and her pro-eugenics philosophy/experiments over two seasons) is seeing something that is not presented on the show.

 

[JD]

I finally watched the most recent episode, and it was OK.
I got a liked seeing Phil Lamarr as Malefic, I mostly know him as a voice actor, so I always get a kick out of seeing him onscreen.
I was a bit confused how exactly Dreamer's powers were able to stop the tidal wave. It looked like one fairly small beam but it stopped the whole tidal wave that was going to hit the entire west coast. I didn't realize she was supposed to be that powerful.
It was pretty obvious that Riproar was William's friend the moment they showed the picture of him. When they said he had four arms, I was expecting something like the picture of the comics version on the last page, so I was a bit surprised it was just to Doctor Octopus mechanical tentacles, rather than actual arms.
I found the back and forth with Andrea at the end a bit whiplash inducing, first she wasn't a bad guy, and then we get the reveal she is working for Leviathan. It just felt kind of weird the way it played out.

 

[Christopher]

I found the back and forth with Andrea at the end a bit whiplash inducing, first she wasn't a bad guy, and then we get the reveal she is working for Leviathan. It just felt kind of weird the way it played out.

I get the impression it's more that she's being coerced by Leviathan, much the way Eve has apparently been. They both seemed afraid of the elderly woman who seems to be the spokesperson for Leviathan.

 

[JD]

Yeah, I guess she did. I just felt a bit weird how we got the big scene with Kara and William realizing she wasn't the one behind the attack in Antarctica and then got the scene with her and the Leviathan lady. But I guess it was just that she wasn't the mastermind behind everything, not necessarily that she was not villain.

 

[Christopher]

But I guess it was just that she wasn't the mastermind behind everything, not necessarily that she was not villain.

As I said, I don't think she is a villain. I think she's being forced to work for the villains. There's a big difference.

 

[JD]

That could be it. Hopefully we'll find out more of what exactly her relationship is to Leviathan sometime soon.

 

[JD]

It looks like you might be right @Christopher.
Entertainment Weekly has posted a clip from tomorrow's Supergirl with Andrea going to Lena for help breaking into the DEO. She tells her that Leviathan wants her to kill Riproar, but she actually wants to save him.

 

[Morpheus 02]

I only saw the season premiere and will have no time to binge watch. Can someone let me know if there are any "essential" episodes I need to see for this season.