Yeah. That's what Enterprise does to people.
I apologize, but I couldn't resist. No offense was intended.
Donny’s Late TOS Movie Era Interiors
- Thread starter Donny
- Start date
Are you really going to compare those apples and oranges? The TOS bridge was ahead of its time, and its "sparse" design was part of the larger clean, uncluttered aesthetic followed by Matt Jefferies during all three seasons of TOS. The TSFS Excelsior bridge, on the other hand, looks like someone looked at the storyboards, then at the budget, then back at the storyboards, then back at the budget, threw up their hands, and said, "Shit, throw something together real quick. Blinking lights behind black glass looks futuristic, right?"
I thought it was only the stage with the Genesis planet that caught fire?
None taken. 
IIRC, a large portion of the refit bridge was water damaged (not fire damaged) when in storage between films, which is why very little of it was shown at the end of TVH, with the front half re-done in TNG for the battle bridge and Stargazer (I very much dislike what they did with that amazing set), and replaced entirely for TFF, with the exception of the two turbolift alcoves, which survived all the way to Nemesis.
I was under the impression that the damage took place sometime during the hiatus between S1 & 2 (or at least sometime after filming wrapped on "Arsenal of Freedom," the last time the original TMP wall segments were used on the Battle Bridge); there seem to be differing accounts floating around.
ETA: The Genesis Planet sets were on Stage 15, while the Enterprise sets were on Stage 9, so the fire wouldn't have caused that damage.
ETA: The Genesis Planet sets were on Stage 15, while the Enterprise sets were on Stage 9, so the fire wouldn't have caused that damage.
Last edited:
We've talked about thsi several times in my various threads, so I must correct you. However, I don't know what's real and what's not these days regarding this story, since it's been retold so many times in so many different ways.
It's often said that the Ent-A bridge we see at the end of TVH was only partially shown as a money saving feature and that they only re-painted the sections seen in the film (which are Communications, Turbolift Alcoves, Helm, and Internal Security Station). It is commonly said that the stations forward of these were not re-painted and re-dressed from their previous appearance as the Saratoga bridge earlier in the film. However, the image below shows that at the least Science staiton and Damage Control station were also painted, neither of which were shown on-screen. I've never seen any evidence that the remaining stations were painted (Engineering, Weapons, Viewscreen, Artificial Gravity, and Environment), but I've also never seen any evidence that they weren't. The photo with Gene and Majel suggests that at least a few of the stations not seen on screen were fully repainted and redressed. I'd love to know if anyone has any hard evidence about the remaining staitons.
IIRC, the water damage happened after IV and before V (or between TNG S1 and S2, as @cardinal biggles recalls), which prompted such a extensive rework of the bridge staitons. HOWEVER, the turbolift alcoves, the floor pie sections, the command pit railing and steps, the helm console, and the ceiling soffits all survived, and are indeed used in the TFF bridge. (It should be noted that different ceiling soffits were used for the next film, TUC) I've read this I believe on Memory Alpha, and can confirm through my studies that those pieces survived. It can be inferred that the at least a few of the control station pie-wedges were destroyed and perhaps the viewscreen, which is why these pieces were reworked entirely. I've read that Shatner wanted to go in a different direction with the bridge anyway, so it worked out.
The turbolift alcoves and the new perimeter stations built for V later became part of the Enterprise-E bridge, so you are correct in saying those pieces survived all the way through Nemesis.
Again, fact-check me on this info if anyone knows differently.
Last edited:
I'm pretty sure the viewscreen survived; it shows up on one of the ships in "The Outrageous Okona," on the Lantree in "Unnatural Selection" and in the starbase courtroom in "Measure of a Man"; the fact that they were actively using it for TNG probably led Herman Zimmerman to just design and build a new one.
I don't think the battle bridge viewscreen is the same viewscreen used on TMP-TSFS bridge. First, the battle bridge viewscreen is mounted on a wall that is curved in diameter but is vertically straight, versus the TMP bridge viewscreen being mounted across 1.5 domed bridge sections that are curved both in diameter and height, and the frame being curved to fit. Second, it's definitely not the same style frame, and they appear to have different width/height ratios.
Compare:
movies.trekcore.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=74393&fullsize=1
with
http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x04/theoutrageousokona_hd_208.jpg
So while the Battle Bridge viewscreen may have survived, I'm guessing either the TMP bridge viewscreen was damaged or just replaced with a more modern design.
Last edited:
I don't suppose there's any way they could have dismantled the TMP viewscreen and reworked it into the one we first saw in "Farpoint"?
I don't think so. Both the frames and the walls they're mounted on are too disimilar. The corners of the viewscreen frames are also completely different diameters. My guess that the Farpoint viewscreen is a totally new unit.
I have no information on this other than what I remember reading in Starlog around that time period, and my (obviously faulty) recollection is that the scene at the end of Star Trek IV was shot from that one angle because everything else was water-damaged and therefore not shown.
That being said... AWWWWWW. I love that photo of Gene and Majel. *sniff*
Looking around, there's a lot of information out there about the history of the set that is just so incredibly wrong on the face of it; both Memory Alpha and Forgotten Trek claim that the TMP bridge was reassembled for TFF*, and that they didn't build a new bridge until TUC. Forgotten Trek mentions that the Battle Bridge from BOBW2 was a redress of the Enterprise-C bridge, ignoring the fact that the same set configuration had already seen service in "Measure of a Man" as the courtroom and "Peak Performance" as the Hathaway bridge.
*And I guess technically, Zimmerman did gather together the turbolift alcoves, helm/nav console, railing, and whatever else and use them in the new bridge, but to call that "reassembling" is a stretch.
*And I guess technically, Zimmerman did gather together the turbolift alcoves, helm/nav console, railing, and whatever else and use them in the new bridge, but to call that "reassembling" is a stretch.
I stand corrected on much of this, but I would go so far to say that MA’s claim that they didn’t rebuild a whole new bridge until TUC is downright false.
The entire bridge was reconditioned for TVH, even if only part of it was seen. This Good Morning America interview from 1986 shows some forward consoles, while also showing the back sections, so it's not just the same few walls turned around (see around 1:05 mark). Other parts of the interview, with more cast members, are on YouTube as well, showing a bit more of the bridge.
From what I know of researching all this for my Odyssey bridge piece, the whole bridge from TVH was originally set to be used on TFF. This included the walls which were "on loan" to the TNG production. The filming dates match for the set pieces to be removed with TNG season 2 already underway, explaining why the USS Lantree had such a bizarre bridge (the viewscreen was the only thing they had left), as they had no time to create the new walls on such short notice. A couple of episodes later, the "battle bridge set" received the new aft walls (seen as the USS Hathaway bridge, the starbase court room, etc.).
(This was the exact same thing that happened later with DS9 using bits of the TFF bridge for the USS Saratoga, which needed to be used for Generations' Enterprise-B set on short notice, explaining why the USS Odyssey was left with only a couple of mismatching walls for its bridge)
But I digress, going back to the TVH/TFF bridge, the following bit of the chronology is where the confusion happens, at least from what I know. Some recounts say that when moved from the TNG lot to the one the movie was being filmed at, the set pieces were left in the open and a "freak weather accident" caused the walls to be destroyed, hence needing the brand new pieces.
Others say that part of TFF was already shot with this older bridge, and due to the messy filming schedule of the movie it was needed to disassemble the bridge momentarily to make room for the shuttlebay set. After filming the shuttlebay sequence, the bridge was supposed to be assembled back together for the rest of the shooting, but that's when the "weather accident" happened, needing to rebuild the bridge and reshot those scenes that were made with the older bridge.
I remember reading both versions from MA, so take these with a grain of salt, but I tend to believe that whatever happened to the old bridge, it was during TFF's production. This is the problem with recollections and second hand testimonies, memories falter and people make up things to make themselves look better or the situations they were in seem more desperate (I'm looking at you, Shatner...)
From what I know of researching all this for my Odyssey bridge piece, the whole bridge from TVH was originally set to be used on TFF. This included the walls which were "on loan" to the TNG production. The filming dates match for the set pieces to be removed with TNG season 2 already underway, explaining why the USS Lantree had such a bizarre bridge (the viewscreen was the only thing they had left), as they had no time to create the new walls on such short notice. A couple of episodes later, the "battle bridge set" received the new aft walls (seen as the USS Hathaway bridge, the starbase court room, etc.).
(This was the exact same thing that happened later with DS9 using bits of the TFF bridge for the USS Saratoga, which needed to be used for Generations' Enterprise-B set on short notice, explaining why the USS Odyssey was left with only a couple of mismatching walls for its bridge)
But I digress, going back to the TVH/TFF bridge, the following bit of the chronology is where the confusion happens, at least from what I know. Some recounts say that when moved from the TNG lot to the one the movie was being filmed at, the set pieces were left in the open and a "freak weather accident" caused the walls to be destroyed, hence needing the brand new pieces.
Others say that part of TFF was already shot with this older bridge, and due to the messy filming schedule of the movie it was needed to disassemble the bridge momentarily to make room for the shuttlebay set. After filming the shuttlebay sequence, the bridge was supposed to be assembled back together for the rest of the shooting, but that's when the "weather accident" happened, needing to rebuild the bridge and reshot those scenes that were made with the older bridge.
I remember reading both versions from MA, so take these with a grain of salt, but I tend to believe that whatever happened to the old bridge, it was during TFF's production. This is the problem with recollections and second hand testimonies, memories falter and people make up things to make themselves look better or the situations they were in seem more desperate (I'm looking at you, Shatner...)
Last edited:
Most of me finds it hard to believe that anything could've been shot on the TMP-TVH bridge for TFF without so much as a frame or photo ever turning up but, then, I've been repeatedly surprised by the kind of new-to-the-public material that's turned up from TOS alone in the past few years.
Yeah, I'd like to see the missing footage of the existing TMP bridge being used in TFF if it exists! However, I'm doubtful of that story so it's wishful thinking.
It's just a personal theory of mine, but I can totally see Shatner "accidentally" having the bridge pieces left out in the open just in time for this "freak" weather accident so that the production would be forced to build him a new bridge. But, like I said. A theory.
Also, @Rekkert, you posting that video has confirmed to me that at least the Environment station was repainted and redressed as well. At 1:05 you can see the station behind the interviewer (which is similar to the Damage Control station, but I can pick them out easily!)
It's just a personal theory of mine, but I can totally see Shatner "accidentally" having the bridge pieces left out in the open just in time for this "freak" weather accident so that the production would be forced to build him a new bridge. But, like I said. A theory.
Also, @Rekkert, you posting that video has confirmed to me that at least the Environment station was repainted and redressed as well. At 1:05 you can see the station behind the interviewer (which is similar to the Damage Control station, but I can pick them out easily!)
Also, the artifical gravity station can be seen at 5:48 in this video:
In other shots, it appears that the viewscreen module is missing from where it should be adjacent to the gravity station, but I assume it was pulled out to allow entry to the set.
After skimming through all 4 parts of the interview, it appears that we still have no evidence that the Engineering Station, Weapons and Defense Station, nor Viewscreen were revamped as with the other sections. However, because today I learned that Environment and Gravity were revamped as well, I'm now convinced more than ever that the entire bridge set was revamped as the new Enterprise-A bridge for TVH.
In other shots, it appears that the viewscreen module is missing from where it should be adjacent to the gravity station, but I assume it was pulled out to allow entry to the set.
After skimming through all 4 parts of the interview, it appears that we still have no evidence that the Engineering Station, Weapons and Defense Station, nor Viewscreen were revamped as with the other sections. However, because today I learned that Environment and Gravity were revamped as well, I'm now convinced more than ever that the entire bridge set was revamped as the new Enterprise-A bridge for TVH.
Last edited:
I've heard both water damage from rain as well as just high winds.
By the way, there are lots of references to the later bridge (Enterprise-C style) being built on the movie bridge. Am I the only one that has a problem with this? I don't see anything in those bridge that are left-over from the movies, including the floor platforms (unless they are just completely boxed-in and carpeted). I think, rather, that it was built in the same spot on the soundstage using the same overhead light rig and "green beds" above the set walls.
By the way, there are lots of references to the later bridge (Enterprise-C style) being built on the movie bridge. Am I the only one that has a problem with this? I don't see anything in those bridge that are left-over from the movies, including the floor platforms (unless they are just completely boxed-in and carpeted). I think, rather, that it was built in the same spot on the soundstage using the same overhead light rig and "green beds" above the set walls.
